hundreth and fiue Gallia Britannia Africa Persis oriens Iâ—dia omnes barbarae Nationes vnum Christum adorant vnam obseruant regulam veritatis R. But why then by some is Palladius called Scotorum Apostolus C. Men may giue names as they please but hee and Servanus Sedulius Nimanus and many more came but in the fiue hundreth yeare of our Lord and may well haue beene waterers of our Church but sure it is they were not the first planters of it R. It is likely indeed to be so C. But to returne Vnder Diocletian in the three hundreth yeare great persecution was made by that Tyrant in al Christian Churches and among the rest the Church of South Britaine was also persecuted by his Deputies for the which many fled to Crachlint King of Scots who did louingly receiue them and assigned to them the Isle of Mâ—n and erected there a Temple dedicated to Christ called otherwise Sodoâ—eÌ„sis ecclesia wherin they peaceably worshipped Christ Iesus and this our owne Chronicle witnesseth After this in the dayes of Fethelmacus which was about the â—ift yeare of the Emperour Constantius there came into this Countrie one Regulus Albatus out of Achaia a Prouince in Graecia but the Countrie was conuerted also long before hee came Therefore â—iergusâ— King of the Pictes gaue him his Palace hee had in Fyâ—â—e where hee built the Church of Saint Andrew desire you still to heare any more R. Truely I am very glad to heare that we haue beene so ancient Christians and yet there remaines a doubt in my heart that the Gospell came neuer hither but out of Rome C. Remember you not what I haue prooued seeing wee are but three yeares in Christianitie behinde Rome thinke you in so small time they did so encrease that they spread out their branches to the vttermost parts of the earth Yea rather if you will reade the Storie you shall finde that for three hundreth yeares wherein are many three yeares they were so vexed by the persecutors that they could not get their owne Church stablished as after it was when God relented the persecution But to come nâ—erer yet vnto you whether hee was an Apostle or an Apostolicke man that first planted our Church I will giue you two great reasons that wee haue our Faith from the Greeke or East Churches not froÌ„ the Latine or West Church R. Nowe that is the point and I pray you once cleare it for I thinke if you euince that the Church of Rome in her best estate hath beene vnto vs a sister Church but no mother church C. My first Argument is from Petrus Cluniacensis Abbas writing to Bernard who affirmes that for seuen or eight hundred yeares after Christ the Scottishmen did celebraâ—e the Passeouer all this time after the Grecian maner not aster the Romane R. I vnderstand not that C. Then I will tell you it Soone after the dayes of the Apostles there happened a controuersie betweene the Churches of the East and West about the celebration of the Passeouer They of the East did obserue it the fourteenth day of the Moone that same day wherein the Iewes kept their Passeouer They againe of the West thinking they would haue no communion with the Iewes did celebrate it the next Sabboth after the fourteenth day Polïcrates with the orientall Bishops alledged the authoritie of Iohn Philip Policarp yea the prescript of the Euangell for their warrant Victor and the Bishops of the West alledged for their warrant Saint Peter Saint Paul Such as were more moderate misliked to see a Schisme in the Church for so small a matter Irenaeus iudgeth Obseruationes illâ—s esse liberâ—s Socrates Ostendit nec Victorem nec Policraten iustam habuisse causam de festo Paschatis tam odiose digladiandi Nam nec Seruator inquit nec Apostoli 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Seeing neither our Sauiour nor his Apostles by any Law hath commanded the obseruation thereof R. Truely it was a lamentable thing to see so sore a renting of the Church for so small a cause C. It was indeede and yet that in this controuersie the Churches of Britaine obserued the manner of the Easterne Church it is an argument they reuerenced the East Church for their mother from whome the grace of the Gospell had come to them R. It is indeede likely If these Churches had beene planted by Romish Doctors they would haue also receiued the Romish ceremonies C. But there is yet an other Argument Galsrid the Cardinall in his Storie of Britaine which hee wrote in the seuen hundreth yeare witnesseth that the Britans would not receiue Augustinus Iunior the Legate of Gregorie the great nor yet acknowledge any primacie of the Bishop of Rome ouer them An euident argument they esteemed not the Romish Church to be their Mother Church To cleare this you shall know that in the sixt hundreth yeare Gregorius magnus sent into England Augustinus Iunior to perswade the Church there to receiue the Romish ceremonies which to that day they had not knowne as Altars Images Vestiments Crosses wherein albeit hee had not such speedie successe as hee would yet at length did he obtaine it and intended also to effect the like in the Church of Scotland but was strongly resisted by Daganus and Columbanus Qui nullam in ritibus mutationem admittere voluerunt Againe in the seuen hundreth yeare a great schisme was in the church of Britaine some refusing the Ceremonies of the Romish Church keeping still their ancient custome for the which they pretended the authoritie of Saint Iohn the Evangelist Others againe embracing the Romish ceremonies which part waxed the stronger in that King Osuvius inclined to them Alway the matter was debated with so hot contention that from words it came to wepons and twelue hundreth Church-men were slain that refused the Romish Ceremonies this is all the good the Britaine Church got from the Popes Legate yet the euill rested not heere for at length in the eight hundreth yeare by thâ— perswasion of one Ecbertus this part of the Isle was also induced to receiue the Romish Ceremonies and thereafter their corrupt doctrine And thus did the Bishop of Rome first obtaine superioritie ouer vs and disgrace by his foolish inventions the glorie and sinceritie of the Churâ—h of Britaine By all this discourse which truely I haue made vnto you it may be evident how vainely and without a cause the defenders of the Romish Church brag of their ancient Primacie ouer all Churches and specially how far they wrong this Isle when they will haue Rome caled a mother to the Churches here which vnlesse you will adde one syllable cannot be admitted for indeed she is a Stepmother and in a word that Infamous Whoore of Babel who as shee hath corrupted the Churches with her abhominable Superstitions no maruell if shee hath at length infected vs also That Rome is Bâ—bel I will shew GOD willing in our next conference where we shall yet more abuÌ„dantly
yet for Ioseph of Arimathea about the yeare of our Lord fiftie three came also to Britaine and taught the Gospell witnesses hereof are Balaeus Flemingus Capgrauus Scropus Polidorus Virgilius and as many thinke he was sent by Philip out of France ouer to Britaine Moreouer Theodoret witnesseth that the Apostle Saint Paul after his deliuerance out of Prison vnder Nero came into Britaine and taught the Gospell And the same also is testified by Sophronius Patriarch of Ierusalem R. I remember indeede that in his Epistle to the Rom. 15.24 was then of purpose to haue come to Spaine C. And you may the more easily think he came to Britaine in like manner seeing so famous an Author affirmes it and you shal like it the better if you coÌ„sider the matter he hath in hand when he makes mention of the conversion of Britaine R. I pray you let me heare it C. The Graecians alledged that our first propagators of the evangell were base men not comparable for wisedome and Learning to their Law-giuers Lycurgus Solon and the rest This Father replyed that the lawes of their Law-giuers were only receiued in Graecia but that our first Preachers of the Gospell had in short time made the most famous Countries and Kingdomes of the World to embrace it An euident argument of a diuine power assisting them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. for sayes hee our Fithers and Publicans and that Tent maker or Cutter of Leather so hee calles Saint Paul hath not only made the Romans and these who liue vnder their Empire to embrace the Christian faith but also thâ— Scythians Sauromatans Indians Ethiopians Persians Britans Germans and in a word hath induced all Nations 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to receiue the Lawes of CHRIST crucified What thinke you of this testimonie R. Truly I am glad to heare that the Lord among other Nations hath also had mercie on this Countrie of ours to coÌ„municate to them the grace of the Gospell C. You shal yet heare more that Aristobolus mentioned Rom. 16. came also to this Isle and discharged the Office of a Bishop as witnesseth the forenamed Dorotheus May you not see wee are not inferiour to any Christian Countrie in this part of the World and that we haue as many cleare witnesses of our Ancient Christian faith as any nation of Europe hath for them R. Indeede I see you haue more then I would haue beleeued if their authoritie be good enough C. What need you doubt of their authoritie for if testimonies of Fathers of the Primitiue Church bee good to proue the Antiquitie of any Church in Europe why should their authoritie be called in doubt wheÌ„ they speake for our Church R. But we are informed that the Bishops of Rome were the first who sent some of their Clergie to this Isle to convert it to the faith C. You may see the contrarie by that which I haue said alreadie and I will yet make it more cleare to you The first King of the South part of the Isle that embraced the Christian faith was Lucius in the yâ—are of our LORD one hundreth twentie and foure In that same time Donald King of the North part of it became also a Christian R. That is true but Lucius required the Bishop of Rome to send him some teachers to instruct him in the Christian faith and as the Chronicle recordes he sent into Britaine Damianus â—nd Fugatianus C. What will you gather of that R. That this I le was converted by such teachers as the Bishop of Rome sent into it C. How can you say that seeing many in the Kingdomes were conuerted before the Kings were converted your owne Baronius cannot denie it these are his wordes Cum diu alioqui anie Euangelium Christi illuâ— perlatum fuisset vt testatur Gilda sapiens that long before those men Damianus and Fugaâ—ianus came here the Gospel was here as witnesseth Gilda the wise Seing your owne Writers are â—orced to confesse it I maruel with what face can any man say that the Gospell came to vs from Rome R. All that you haue yet said makes something for the Church of England nothing for the Church of Scotland C. Wâ— inhabit both one Isle and what good or euill specially in Religion hath come to the one hath beene fouâ—d by manifold experiences easily deriued to the other R. But what think you whether came the light of the Gospell first to you or to them C. That is a Iesuiticall Policy to diuide them whome GOD hath coupled and to cause vs to contend together in that wherin we agree ioyntly to contend with the Church of Rome what part of the Isle God did first illuminate with his light is nothing to the matter If it was their glorie to haue the Sunne of righteousnesse first shining on them wee enuie it not this is sufficient the Lord had a Church here in this Isle as soon as in Rome and neither they nor wee had our faith from Rome and if â—ou or any for you will call in doubt the antiquitie of the Church of England I warrant you you shall finde a number both of Learned and Graue Diuines wherein they are not inferiour to any Church in Europe to answere for themselues And if yet you craue further light concerning the antiquity of our Church I will shew you that which may content you if you be reasonable R. Let me heare what is that C. Marke me this testimonie of Tertullian who liued in the two hundreth yeare of Christ Britannorumloca Romanismaccessa Christo subdita sunt Now what part of Britaine he meanes your owne Cardinall Baâ—onius will declare vnto you for when he hath said magnam Bâ—itanniâ—e partem fuisse liberam then hee proues it by the wall built so often by Victoâ—ine by Adriâ—n as hee cites ex Aâ—lio Spartianom Adriano and an other ceâ—â—â—tius murus built by Antoninâ—s Pius as he cites out of Iulius Capitolinus in Pio. By this saith he it is euident that Britannia was diuided by a wall that part within the wâ—ll was possessed by Româ—ns the other without Britanni liberè possiderunt qui saepe muros illos egresâ— Romanos praelijs provocarunâ— What say ye now of these testimonies R. I thinke indeede that is a great testimonie for the antiquitie of your Church C. So you may for this same cause Petrus Cluniacensis vocat Scotos Antiquiores Christianos calles Scottish men the more auncient Christians You will make then no more contradiction but that these testimonies which record the conuersion of Britaine belong both to the South and North parts of the Isle R. Your former argument brought out of Tertullian and expounded by Baronius cleares that C. Yet if you please heare what Origen sayes who liued in the yeare of CHRIST two hundreth and sixtie hee also witnesseth Britanniam in Christianam consentire religionem To him we may adde Ierome in the yeare of our Lord foure
tempora Romani imperij Hilarius contra Auxentium Anne dubium est in eis esse futurum Is there any doubt but Antichrist shall sit in these same temples and houses which now ye loue and honour Item Sub specie Euangelicae praedicationis Christo coÌ„trarius erit ibid. This proues that in the iudgement of Hilarius Antichrist should bee a professor yea euen a Preacher of the truth Primasius in Apocal. cap. 16. Tunc cadet Babylon quaÌ„do nouissimè potestatem persequendi sanctos acceperit Here also it is cleare that he meanes not old Rome Do not these places make cleare that the Apostasie here prophesied should come afâ—er the decay of the Romane Empire and since themselues can not deny but the temporal Empire is decayed how then can they deny the Apostasie R. I thinke iudeede these places make it cleare specially that which Ambrose hath wherein I marke these thinges That first the Empire should decaie and then Antichrist should appeare and he should restore libertie to the Romans but vnder his owne name and not vnder the Emperours name C. You haue marked that very wel for the Pope hath made the name of Romanes more famous then the Emperours did and vnder colour of a spirituall Empire hath made all churche subiect vnto the Church of Rome and from his name to bee named Papists Hieron in Daniel 11. Antichristus simulabit se ducem foe deris hoc est â—egis Testamenti Dei. And albeit the Prophesie of Antichrist was not so cleare to him others of these fathers also as time hath made it to this age yet expounding these words of the Apostle He sits in the Temple of God he saith this is Hierosolymis vt quidam putant vel in Ecclesiâ vt veriùs arbitramur quaest 11. ad Aglasiam August de Ciuit. Dei lib. 20. cap. 19. Rectiûs putant alij dictum latinè sicutest in Graeco Sâ—debit in Templum Dei quasi ipse cum suis esset Ecclesia Dei. Theophilactus Haymo Lombardus are of the same mind The Iesuites of Rhemes hauing shewed how many fathers expound this Temple of Ierusalems Temple at length distrusting it as a vaine opinion they set downe this second as more true That Antichrist if euer he were of or in the Church shall be an Apostata or runnegate out of the Church and shall vsurpe vpon it by tyranny and by challenging worship religion and gouernment thereof so that he himselfe shâ—ll bee adored in all the Churches of the world this is to sit in the Temple of God if any Pope euer â—id so or shâ—ll do then let the Adâ—ersaries call him Antichrist But indeede this their confession whereby they would cleare their Pope doth plaine soile him hee sits in the Church by profession but is gone out of it by Apostasie and yet vsurpes gouernment ouer it by tiranny in euery Church he is adored as a God on earâ—h hauing power ouer the conscience excommunicating all such from humane societie as will not be subiect to him What thinke you of that talke to giue to the Pope Tu es alter Deus in terris R. Who said that C. It was said to him in the second Lâ—â—erane Councell by Christopher Marcellus R. Good sooth it was shame to the flatterer and a blame to the Pope if he blusht not when he heard it C. Oh but that is not the worst his Canonists stile him their Lord God the Pope R. Fie vpon that will they commit such blasphemie C. There are their owne words Dicâ—re Dominum Deum nostrum Papam non potâ—isse sâ—atuere prout statuit haereticum est To say that our Lord God the Pope might haue discerned otherwise then he hath discerned is hereticall And againe that they make a God of him these places may let you see Si Papa suae sraternae salutis negligens innumerabiles secum ducat caterâ—atim in Gehennam huiusmodi culpam nullus mortalium praesumâ—t redarguere And againe Est instar sacrilegij disputare de factis Papae It is sacriledge to dispute vpon any of the Popes deedes Or otherwise it is to be said Quod facta Papae excusantur vt homicidium Sampsonis furta Hebraeorum adulterium Iacobi That the euill deedes of the Pope are to be excused as the selfe-murther of Sampson the theft of the Hebrewes the adulterie of Iacob Is not this to make the Pope a lawlesse man R. I think no lesse then you say C. But what say you to this Canonibus sacris authoritatem it a praestat vt se illis non subijciat Hee in such sort giues authority to holy Scriptures that hee is not subiect to it And that as Christ did some things against the Law as when hee touched the Leper so the Pope may do some things against the Lawe And albeit we reade that Baâ—aâ—m was rebuked of his owne Assâ— by the which Asse our subiects by Balaam our Prelates are signified yet ought not that to be an example to our Subiects to reproue vs. R. Indeed I thinke it a meete comparison for him Let him bee Balaam and let such as hee rides vpon be Asses as to mee I thanke God I am quit of him C. Alway by these and innumerable more testimonies it is euident that hee is the lawlesse man that exaltes himself aboue all that is called God and that his blinded captiues worshippe him as God But wee will proceede to the rest of the testimonies Greg. lib. 9. Epist. 30. Fidenâ—èr dico quòd quisquis se vniuersalem vocat sacerdotem aut vocari deâ—iderat in elatione suâ Antichristum praecurrit What think you doth not Gregorie heere blacke the faces of his successors with a visible note of Anti-christ Who but they are so called R. They will say he speakes that of Iohn Bishop of Constantinople who at that time vsurped this stile C. Yea but when Eulogius Patriarch of Alexandria gaue that same stile to Gregorie Bishop of Rome hee did sharpely reprooue him for it Recedant verba quae vanitatem instant charitaâ—em vulnerant But hee hath yet a clearer place Rex superbiae propè est quod dici nesas est sacerdotum et exercitus praeparatur li. 4. Epist. 38. Sybilla sayes this King shal be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is White-headed and shall be called by a name much like Pontus Or otherwise 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hauing many Heades or many Crownes Here hee hath one marke from his head an other from his name both of these agree to the Bishoppe of Rome who weareth solemnely on his head a white Myter of Siluer adorned with three Crownes and precious stones and in Latine is named Pontifex And againe shee sayes that the greatest terrour and furie of his Empire and the greatest woe that he shall worke shall bee by the bankes of Tyber How the fathers of the last ages declare that Antichrist is come and point him out sitting at ROME The ninth hundred