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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A41594	A discourse of the use of images in relation to the Church of England and the Church of Rome in vindication of Nubes testium against a pamphlet entitled The antiquity of the Protestant religion concerning images, directed against some leaves of that collection.	Gother, John, d. 1704.	1687 (1687)	Wing G1328; ESTC R15744	20,616	40

the Crucifixion of our Saviour but especially in the New Common-Prayer-Books interleav'd with Pictures 2ly As to the Commemorative Vse of Images 't is receiv'd and approv'd in the Church of Rome as 't is explicated in the Council of Trent above cited where 't is said That the Use of Holy Images is Beneficial to the People because by them they are put in mind of the Benefits and Blessings receiv'd from Christ and by seeing the Wonderful Miracles wrought by the Power of God and the Exemplary Lives of the Saints they are excited to give God Thanks for such Favors to love him and compose their Lives according to the Exemple of such Holy Men. The same is declared in the Catechism ad Parochos ut sup where the Parish Priest is directed to inform the People That Holy Images are plac'd in Churches to put them in mind of the Divine Mysteries and Blessings that so they may be more Zealous and Attentive in the Love and Service of so Good a God. And that by beholding the Representations of the Saints they may be admonish'd to conform their Lives to such Examples Thus teaches the Church of Rome The Church of England likewise agrees with her in the same Doctrin and Practice allowing of Images as helps to Piety and for the affecting the minds of the Beholders with Pious Cogitations and encouraging them to a Vertuous and Exemplary Life This is most apparent in the Injunctions given by King Edward VI. to his Clergy and Ministers wherein they are order'd to Instruct the People in their Circuits that Images serve for Remembrance whereby Men may be admonish'd of the holy Lives and Conversation of them that the said Images Represent Which is the very Doctrin now mention'd in the Council of Trent and Catechism ad Parochos This Mr. Montagu explicates more at large in his Book call'd A New Gag c. where treating of Images he says to the Papists Images have these uses assign'd by your Schools The Instruction of the Ignorant the Refreshing of History and Exciting Devotion You and WE also give unto them these And a little after The Pictures of Christ the Blessed Virgin and Saints may be made and had in Houses set up in Churches The Protestants do it and use them for Helps of Piety In his Appeal to Caesar likewise he thus delivers the Sense of the Church of England in this affair c. 21. Our strictest Writers says he do not condemn or censure St. Gregory for putting upon them Images that Historical use of suggesting unto moving or affecting the mind even in Pious and Religious Affections For Instance in Remembring more feelingly and so being empassion'd more effectually with the Death Blood-shed and Bitter Passion of our Saviour when we see that Story fully and lively Represented unto us in Colors or Work by a Skilful hand And I know not the Man that is made of human Mold but when he readeth on this Painted Book his Tragical Endurances for Man will reflect upon himself and his own Soul and Conscience with a Lively apprehension of Man's Sin God's Love Christ's endeared Charity in undergoing these unknown Sufferings for our sake Thus this Eminent Author most feelingly explicates the Pious use of Holy Images as proper for the suggesting Good Thoughts and inflaming the Soul with most Christian Affections in order to the Love and Service of God. In this the Reader may behold how little Difference or rather how great an Agreement there is between the Legitimate and Genuin Doctrin of the Church of England and the Church of Rome as to these two first Points mention'd viz. The Historical and Commemorative Vse of Sacred Images Now when a Member of the Church of Rome has endeavor'd to shew that this Doctrin as to the Historical and Commemorative Vse of Holy Images is agreeable to the Antient Church as is done in Nubes Testium who could ever expect that any Member of the Church of England much less a Divine should appear bidding Defiance to such Doctrin with endeavors to shew the Practice of it to be Heathenish Heretical and but a Popish Invention Could a Man think that any Church of England Divine would take so much pains to abuse and Ridicule his own Church Certainly he must be either very Ignorant of what his own Church teaches or very blindly Malicious against the Church of Rome that to expose her should not care what Mischief he did his own Mother Church But thus it happens sometimes when Men are guided by Passion instead of Truth and Reason 't is impossible to avoid these Absurdities when such Bitter Spirits take Pen in hand who look no further in Answering than to Contradict their Adversary right or wrong And how far this Answerer has done this 't will be not amiss in this Place to consider 1st Then he pretends to shew pa. 20. That the first making of Pictures among Christians proceeded partly from the Example of some HERETICS This Bolt he shoots against the Papists But will not any Reader presently reflect that if Pictures in Churches be not a Christian Institution but the Corruption of Heretics that the Church of England for all the Pictures they set up in their Churches follow not Christ and his Apostles as they pretend but the Invention of Heretics And what Credit is this to his Church 2ly He asserts ib. that the making Pictures among Christians had it's Origin principally from the Fond Inclinations of those who being Converted from Heathenism to Christianity retain'd still an old relish and love of those Superstitious Practices to which they had been accustom'd so long Is not this to let the Person of Quality to whom he writes know that the Church of England in using and allowing Sacred Pictures of Christ his Apostles c. as is shewn above in Houses and Churches follows not only an Heretical Abuse but likewise the Superstitious Practices of Heathens 3ly He says that there was no such thing pa. 15. as the Vse of Images in the Primitive Ages Which is to inform his Reader that the Church of England as to this Point of Images is faln from the Christianity of the Primitive Times and that she stands in need of a Reformation 4ly He shews pa. 22. that the having Pictures in Churches is contrary to an Express Canon of the Council of Eliberis held An. 305. by the Fathers of the Primitive Church In which he condemns his own Church for contradicting the Positive Decrees of so Antient a Council 5ly From the Example of an Antient Bishop renting a Veil or Hanging whereon was the Image of Christ he declares pa. 25. in the words of the Bishop such Pictures to be contrary to the Authority of the Scriptures Which is plainly to tell the World that the Use of Hangings such as have Christ or his Saints Represented on them as may be seen in many Houses in Cathedral and Collegiate Churches are all contrary to the Word of God. These are some of the

giving the World and me a needless trouble of stating this Controversie which has been so long ago decided as to this Point by a Divine of his own Church But alas some Men who have for a long time from their Castle of Priviledge with a Noisy but Empty Controversie peevishly declaim'd against all sorts of Adversaries and there boastingly triumph'd where they know no body dar'd contradict or question them vainly think they may do the like in Print and that they may as easily impose upon all Readers as upon their Hearers And I desire our Answerer to consider how far he is here concern'd who thus dares to venture abroad with these Raw and Vnconnected Notions But the Answerer is resolv'd however to convince his Reader of the Unlawfulness of Images and in order to this tells him as before that the Antient Heretics were Friends to Images I wont ask here Why then do's the Church of England use them in her Places of Worship But I 'll tell him in his own Words that this is a Silly Artifice and that every thing is not to be condemn'd which was us'd by such a sort of People He knows I hope that the Antient Heretics us'd the Bible too as likewise Preaching and Churches and yet sure all these are not to be rejected upon this score I have here shew'd him already out of his own Authors who first declaratorily establish'd the use of Holy Images giving Reverence and Respect unto them and that this was a True Doctrin in it self before he ever profess'd it And what matter then if some Heretics admitted of the same who are wont to abuse even the best of things as the Answerer says the Gnostics did pa. 57. who rankt Christ's Image with those of Pythagoras Plato and Aristotle As to what he says before pag. 53. that Pope Gregory I. and II. contradict each other in this Point he would do well to explicate this fuller in his next for Pope Gregory II. is no more for Adoration of Images than Gregory I. as appears in that Letter of his to Leo Isaurus cited in Nubes Testium pa. 183. Where writing to the Emperor You charge us says he with the Adoration of Stones and Walls and Pictures But 't is not so as you affirm O Emperor What we do is only to refresh our Memory to raise our minds to Heaven and not as you urge to Worship them as Gods no God forbid we place no hope in them How then do's he contradict Gregory I. while he 's no more for Worshiping Images than he was But he that has Forehead enough to charge me with a Notion of Invocating of Images as he do's pa. 66. when I have no such Word or Hint must not be call'd to an account for every thing he says I have little more to consider in this Letter of the Answerer besides his great Kindness and Affection to the Heathens who with his Good Friend Dr. Stillingfleet is so favorable to them as in a manner to excuse them from Idolatry so the better to fix this Crime upon the Papists Tho' the Doctrin of the Papists in this Point is so like what the Church of England teaches that as is shewn above there 's little difference betwixt them besides about School Terms and Words The World knows the good understanding there was between Sultan Solyman and Martin Luther and how friendly the Followers of this New Prophet were taught to be to the Turks but why our English Reformers upon Martin Luther should be at this day so kind to the Heathens must be left to every one to guess The Answerer assures the Person of Quality pa. 11. to whom he writes that to charge the Heathens with Worshiping Stocks and Stones as Gods is to Misrepresent them And yet how many times has this very thing been instill'd into the Peoples Heads as True of the Papists which now as we are inform'd is a Misrepresentation when affirm'd of the Pagans Are not the Pagans here deeply indebted to these Church of England Men in their owning them to be Misrepresented whilst the same Abomination is so liberally charg'd upon the Papists and yet no Misrepresentation there if you 'l believe ' em This is to make the Papists worse than Heathens and without either Respect to Duty or Good manners to advance even now that Plot-Divinity which was Preach'd by a Doctor before the House of Commons April 11. 1679. Who setting out Popery in such colors as might be most effectual to excite that Assembly to the Drawing of Blood after several Dreadful Characters at last pa. 30. thus concludes Nay says he it is a Religion that will engage you in a more Unnatural Idolatry than ever the Pagans were guilty of Is not this a rare Character of one Christian from another Nay from Church of England Christians too such who pretend to so much Charity and Moderation above their Neighbors and yet to cast forth so much Gall and Venom that could be expected from none but another Julian or a Lucian But I take no advantage here I consider this was deliver'd in a time of an Epidemical Madness and what wonder if the Pulpits did not escape the Contagion But why at this time of the day should this Lecture be read to the People Is not the Plot out of some People's heads yet Is the Infection so lasting But what shall we say the Enclosure of some Men's Religion is only to be against Popery They raise a monstrous Notion in their own Brains and while they expose this to the People they make the Innocent suffer for their Delusion They 'l joyn hands with the Turk or the Pagan so they can but make a Devil of the Papist And in this some of their Furioso's are so blindly rash that they care not how Antichristian they make their own Church so they can but set out the Papists for Idolaters For here I desire any serious Man to consider if the Papists were thus really Idolaters as bad or worse than the Heathens as these Men suggest what Advantage would this be to the Church of England What kind of Church must the Church of England be who has no Ordination Succession or Authority of Preaching but what she has receiv'd from these Idolaters What kind of Church must she be whilst she owns her self and These Idolaters to be Parts of the same Church What kind of Church must she be whilst she acknowledges that all her Members for a Thousand Years before Henry 8. were in Communion with these Idolaters and in all External Rites and Worship were comprehended in the Papacy Must not she have been a very Dissembling and Adulterous Church whilst believing internally the True and Pure Faith of Christ she did for so many years externally practise all the supposed Superstitions and Idolatries of the Church of Rome which she judg'd to be most Wicked and Damnable Is not this an admirable Character of a Pretended Church of Christ to have play'd the Hypocrit for so many Ages committing Adultery with the Supposed Whore of Babylon and partaking in all her pretended Abominations What greater Blow could an Enemy give to the Church of England than some of her Divines do thus with their own hands who like Spiritual Janizaries destroy their own Mother Church of which they are Members For is it not evident that whilst they endeavor to make the Church of Rome guilty of Idolatry they prove their own Church for so many years to have been Idolatrous to have been a Dissembling Church a Church denying Christ and his Religion a Church for Temporal Respects committing many Idolatries and Superstitions and consequently no Church at all And what more Forcible Argument need any Dissenters to justifie their Separation from the Church of England For since the greatest part of those things upon which the Dissent is founded are such as have been instituted and commanded by the Church of Rome why shou'd they receive them from the Church of England whilst these same Church-Guides who press the Observance take so much pains to prove those from whom they receiv'd them to be Idolaters and a sort of Christians worse than Heathens What reason has any Man to joyn in such a Form of Worship and Divine Service when he is assur'd that Those from whom the greatest Part is borrow'd are Idolaters Why should any be tied to such Ceremonies if those that instituted them were Idolaters 'T is but Rational for every Man to think that if the Papists are so Stupid so Sottish so Ridiculous such Idolaters so worse than Heathens as every little Church-Divine is pleas'd to render them that the Church of England who retains so much of their Service and Ceremonies must of necessity be so far like them in Sottishness Ridiculosity Idolatry and Heathenism and the only way to become a Pure Christian must be to shake off even that which She has retain'd This is a very Obvious reasoning and I don't question has so powerfully wrought upon the minds of Infinite Numbers and widen'd the Separation to that degree that the very Crime of the Church of England in her Bitter and Vnjust Invectives against the Papists has by a just hand of God prov'd her Punishment whilst her endeavors to alienate the Peoples minds from Popery has embitter'd them even against her self and been so fatal to her that by the same means she has made People no Papists she has made them Dissenters from her own Communion and rais'd to her self almost as many Enemies as she inteded against the Church of Rome Our Answerer has lent a helping hand in this Point I do not mean here by his Peevish Scandalous Pulpit Invectives but in this his pretended Answer to this Part of Nubes Testium whilst he has scarce any one Argument but what is levell'd as much against his own Church if that be really his which he pretends as against the Papists Tho' in reality to any Intelligent Reader there is but very little against either The whole being made up of Vulgar Sophisms Wordy Disputes and Arguing at Rovers But the Author is to be excus'd the Whole is nothing more than a Letter And every body knows that a Letter however proper it may be to the Person to whom 't is directed is many times very Absurd when 't is divulg'd and made Common wee 'l excuse therefore the Writer but really he is to blame that Publish'd it FINIS