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A77292 Dr Durie's defence of the present ministry, being compared with the gospel and gospel ministry, turnes into smoke, and vanisheth As is made to appear in the ensuing treatise, by a witnesse of the gospel, John Braine. Brayne, John. 1649 (1649) Wing B4322A; ESTC R231104 35,215 40

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begin with an O yes still for fear least no man would not heed what ye say and did they heed you rightly they would take heed how they read your writings I hope you are more just in your cases of conscience 1. You acknowledge part of the truth but not all here are three sorts expressed and differenced clearly in their feeding why do not you ingeniously confesse it or deny it by argument but you confesse only what will serve your owne turne this will not availe in the day of Christ 2. You have two sorts of feeding the one with meat the other with rule yet both sorts are fed alike but Sir where is the third what is it or is it not in the Text or are you not willing to have it there or known it is there and then the Lambs are fed with Doctrine Sheep with rule 3. These are recommended to one man but was he not an extraordinary officer and were they not several administrations given unto him 4. If I prove the office from the Scripture by institution practise and continuance how can you say it is a new coyned office you have not one of these to shew for your single Nationall Church ministry in all the book of Christ yea in the Name of Christ either prove your call and ministry or lay it downe or this will be a witnesse against you at the last day Dr. If this be your clearest proof it is clear you have no proof at all but make your fancy and wrong application of the Text all your proof this proves no more then that Peter was fully re-installed unto his office and that notwithstanding his threefold deniall he was againe thrice admitted to his charge ●nd to all the objects and parts of it Resp Sir to all understanding men you clear up the truths of my Treatise and bring a darknesse on your selfe and judgement what twelve moneths time to find out Peters re-instalement and to put in a few empty lines and to put it in againe and againe you should have put it in a little further off if that were it you aimed at but Sir pray what do you make of Peter a Pope indeed or I pray Sir tell me what expresse Scripture have you to prove that Peter lost or was put out of his Apostleship or if you will his Bishops See that he was now re-installed and that nothing else but his three-fold re-instalment must be understood in this place I believe you had this from some Popish Priest or Postill pray Sir at the call of any of the Apostles had they a three-fold instalement as you here set downe if not why should they have it at their re-instalment had Christ prayed that Peters faith should not faile before he fell and shall his Episcopacy Sir I know none that lost his Episcopacy but Judas of the Apostles you are in a Popish dream the Lord awaken you are there several feedings of which one sort are fed with rule only good Mr Doctor P. 22. 2 Cor. 6.1 Dr. The Apostles meaning is that men worke together with God that is every minister is in his own work subordinate unto God it is then impertinent to make this inference it is not the work of one man alone many men may work in one and the same worke and one may have diverse workes as the objects differ one Shepheard ma●● at one time feed both Lambs and Sheep Resp Sir Hereunto I have not had 14 houres time to copy out your breviary and returne you this Answer in a little longer time I should deal better with you but any rational man that wil look on the Text and see your falaciousnesse may tract you and know you you say the meaning is that men worke tog●ther 1. What men 1 Cor. 1.19 are they not we Paul Silvanus and Timothy or what were they 2. Where did they work was it not in the Church of Corinth 3. How did they work was it not together in ministry Now to this you seem to agree but then after in your after exposition because you feared the former like fire that might burn your double doctrine you fly to an exposition quite contrary to truth that serves your selfe every eie may see where you were going and as for part of the inferences they are like your doctrine corrupt and none of mine it is your chief art and skill to man inferences you make none good of your owne nor deduce those honestly mine P. 23. He that plants and he that waters are one 1 Cor. 3.8 Dr. By one in this place is not meant so much the ministry as the efficacy and vertue thereof that is they are as to the bringing forth of the effect as one thing that is of no efficacy but only outward instruments servants of God Resp 1. I cannot but admire how men do befoole themselves when they fight against the truth saith he they are as to the bringing forth of the effect as one and the same thing that is of n● efficacy it is learnedly cleared 2. Consider this is first spoke of Paul and Apollo and here relates to them and their ministry in the pronoun quis and after more clearly in the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is unum ●●ministerium againe every one hath his own reward according to his owne labour ver 9. we are labourers together now judge if here be not intended onely Ministers and Ministry and the Doctors glosse very spurious and corrupt worse then whimsicall P. 23. 2 Cor. 1.15 That in no constituted Church we read of no more but three in fellowship of Ministry ordinarily Dr. These are weake conjectures and can make no such in probability as are inferred on them Resp I beseech the Reader see I propose texts of Scripture and affirme that in no constituted Church were more or should be lesse the Doctor cannot disprove it by the word that confirms it abundantly and therefore he shakes it off with a conjecture only pray see of what authority the Scripture is with these kind of men ●or ●y ● Church patterne in the Gospel P. 23. We do that never Apostle did doe Dr. Was not Peter bound by the charge that was given him to feed both Lambs and Sheep as well the young as the old by giving them their meat and ruling them Resp 1. As Apostle he had this charge but this warrants not us in our practise being ord●●●●● ministers by a ordinary call 2. The Apostles had ●uthority for all that from them authority may be communicated to others in an ordinary way 3. Ordinarily and so I intend no Apostle did the whole ministery what meanes the mentioning of their co-workers so oft else and that of Acts 10.48 Dr. I say that every one that is called to the Ministry is bound to do all that God doth inable him to doe both to Teach and to Rule as the occasions do require his service Resp 1. You have Mr Doctor a dixi for it if