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authority_n according_a church_n scripture_n 3,690 5 6.1129 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A31449 Vindiciae vindiciarum, or, A further manifestation of M.J.C., his contradictions instanced in Vindiciae clavium being a rejoinder to his reply (to some few of those many contradictions) in his last book called, The way of Congregationall churches cleared, part 2 / by D.C. Cawdrey, Daniel, 1588-1664. 1651 (1651) Wing C1641; ESTC R23919 36,878 62

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of_o other_o and_o i_o can_v sincere_o profess_v i_o consult_v with_o none_o or_o very_o few_o book_n of_o this_o controversy_n but_o compare_v your_o book_n one_o with_o another_o my_o own_o reason_n and_o judgement_n suggest_v to_o i_o those_o contradiction_n in_o they_o that_o leave_v i_o altogether_o unsatisfy_a in_o your_o way_n and_o at_o this_o day_n i_o be_o leave_v so_o still_o if_o not_o more_o confirm_v that_o the_o independent_a way_n be_v not_o the_o way_n of_o god_n that_o be_v so_o inconsistent_a with_o the_o scripture_n and_o with_o itself_o that_o other_o have_v more_o elaborate_o dispute_v this_o cause_n i_o shall_v easy_o yield_v but_o i_o think_v i_o may_v true_o say_v without_o vanity_n none_o have_v more_o distinct_o discover_v the_o weakness_n of_o your_o proof_n and_o your_o contradiction_n to_o yourselves_o in_o hold_v out_o your_o way_n than_o i_o have_v do_v nor_o be_o i_o at_o all_o trouble_a that_o you_o choose_v rather_o to_o consider_v what_o have_v be_v write_v by_o learned_a and_o reverend_a m._n rutherford_n and_o m._n baily_n though_o you_o sere_a m._n baily_n as_o you_o do_v i_o never_o name_v he_o more_o in_o all_o your_o follow_a discourse_n have_v you_o but_o make_v good_a your_o promise_n to_o consider_v also_o what_o i_o have_v say_v to_o vindicate_v yourself_o from_o your_o contradiction_n and_o to_o clear_v the_o truth_n in_o question_n but_o see_v you_o be_v please_v so_o to_o neglect_v i_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o be_v trouble_v if_o i_o conceive_v it_o loss_n of_o time_n and_o labour_n to_o follow_v you_o any_o further_o and_o consider_v what_o learned_a and_o reverend_a m._n hooker_n have_v elaborate_o write_v in_o this_o controversy_n only_o give_v i_o leave_v to_o present_v you_o with_o a_o scheme_n of_o your_o remain_a contradiction_n or_o contrariety_n at_o least_o note_v in_o vind._n clau._n out_o of_o your_o own_o book_n and_o then_o leave_v you_o to_o your_o choice_n whether_o you_o will_v reconcile_v they_o 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presbyser_n ib._n 49._o 4._o as_o for_o election_n and_o ordination_n of_o officer_n etc._n etc._n these_o thing_n they_o the_o brethren_n may_v do_v if_o need_v be_v without_o officer_n the_o way_n p._n 45._o 101._o 4._o ordination_n be_v not_o a_o act_n of_o supreme_a jurisdidiction_n but_o of_o order_n rather_o in_o h._n survey_v part_n 2.75_o 5._o the_o key_n of_o authority_n or_o rule_n be_v commit_v to_o the_o elder_n of_o the_o church_n and_o so_o the_o act_n of_o rule_n be_v the_o proper_a act_n of_o their_o office_n the_o key_n p._n 20._o the_o people_n discern_v and_o approve_v the_o justice_n of_o the_o censure_n give_v consent_n and_o obedience_n to_o the_o will_n and_o rule_n of_o christ_n the_o key_n pag._n 15._o 37._o 41._o the_o brethren_n stand_v in_o a_o order_n even_o a_o orderly_a subjection_n according_a to_o the_o order_n of_o the_o gospel_n p._n 11._o 5._o in_o case_n the_o officer_n do_v err_v and_o commit_v offence_n they_o shall_v be_v govern_v by_o the_o 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the_o gate_n of_o the_o church_n here_o and_o of_o heaven_n hereafter_o be_v open_v or_o shut_v to_o the_o son_n of_o man_n will_v not_o any_o man_n think_v these_o be_v all_o the_o key_n necessary_a and_o alsufficient_a for_o those_o end_n on_o earth_n and_o in_o heaven_n but_o say_v you_o in_o instance_v these_o i_o suppose_v no_o man_n will_v be_v of_o so_o narrow_a apprehension_n as_o not_o to_o conceive_v those_o thing_n to_o be_v include_v without_o which_o these_o can_v due_o be_v perform_v as_o vocation_n unto_o such_o administration_n and_o some_o who_o have_v power_n from_o christ_n to_o give_v such_o a_o vocation_n but_o i_o pray_v sir_n be_v these_o any_o part_n of_o the_o key_n themselves_o if_o a_o steward_n be_v trust_v with_o the_o key_n of_o the_o family_n as_o peter_n with_o the_o key_n of_o the_o church_n there_o must_v be_v door_n and_o lock_n and_o servant_n to_o be_v let_v in_o or_o shut_v out_o but_o be_v those_o any_o part_n of_o the_o key_n mend_v your_o 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be_v demonstrate_v in_o my_o vind._o clau._n in_o answer_n to_o that_o preface_n and_o in_o the_o tract_n itself_o but_o you_o take_v no_o notice_n of_o it_o next_o let_v your_o own_o book_n speak_v wherein_o you_o often_o give_v the_o brethren_n without_o officer_n power_n to_o ordain_v officer_n and_o to_o censure_v they_o all_o without_o officer_n which_o if_o they_o be_v not_o the_o high_a act_n of_o rule_n and_o so_o the_o brethren_n have_v the_o great_a share_n in_o the_o government_n i_o shall_v still_o profess_v my_o ignorance_n in_o this_o controversy_n and_o upon_o my_o observation_n you_o deny_v they_o power_n in_o nothing_o but_o administration_n of_o sacrament_n you_o allow_v they_o power_n in_o jurisdiction_n by_o give_v they_o power_n in_o admission_n and_o ejection_n of_o member_n and_o officer_n you_o allow_v they_o liberty_n in_o preach_v the_o word_n only_o not_o ordinary_o nor_o so_o authoritative_o as_o to_o pastor_n or_o teacher_n what_o can_v you_o give_v they_o 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consent_n not_o authority_n and_o so_o those_o time_n give_v no_o express_a lineament_n of_o congregationall_a discipline_n show_v we_o in_o any_o antiquity_n of_o scripture_n or_o story_n that_o the_o people_n have_v power_n without_o officer_n to_o create_v or_o ordain_v officer_n to_o impose_v hand_n upon_o they_o or_o to_o censure_v all_o their_o officer_n or_o you_o say_v nothing_o to_o the_o present_a controversy_n 2._o when_o you_o have_v say_v the_o key_n convey_v not_o sovereign_a power_n but_o steward_o i_o infer_v that_o this_o clear_o exclude_v the_o people_n for_o they_o have_v no_o stewardly_a or_o ministerial_a power_n over_o themselves_o i_o may_v have_v add_v much_o less_o over_o their_o officer_n you_o answer_v by_o a_o question_n as_o if_o the_o people_n be_v not_o steward_n of_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n give_v to_o they_o etc._n etc._n but_o true_o sir_n this_o be_v no_o better_a than_o a_o fine_a elusion_n to_o take_v steward_n in_o a_o large_a sense_n than_o i_o intend_v it_o steward_n to_o i_o be_v officer_n and_o can_v the_o people_n be_v steward_n over_o their_o steward_n yourself_o say_v pag._n 28._o it_o impli_v a_o contradiction_n that_o the_o church_n shall_v be_v its_o own_o officer_n for_o the_o very_a term_n of_o officer_n impli_v subordination_n so_o say_v i_o it_o impli_v a_o contradiction_n that_o the_o church_n shall_v be_v its_o own_o steward_n and_o again_o p._n 30._o we_o acknowledge_v say_v you_o that_o a_o company_n of_o profess_v believer_n destitute_a of_o officer_n be_v not_o steward_n by_o office_n etc._n etc._n then_o say_v i_o you_o answer_v equivocal_o take_v the_o word_n in_o another_o sense_n than_o it_o be_v common_o take_v in_o this_o controversy_n let_v a_o man_n esteem_n of_o we_o as_o steward_n of_o the_o mystery_n of_o god_n 1_o cor._n 4.1_o do_v not_o the_o apostle_n there_o mean_v it_o only_o of_o officer_n nor_o will_v the_o apostle_n peter_n help_v you_o out_o 4.10_o 1_o pet._n 4.10_o for_o either_o he_o 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you_o not_o say_v his_o i_o will_v have_v ask_v what_o act_n of_o power_n woman_n may_v put_v forth_o in_o their_o particular_a church_n yet_o certain_o woman_n may_v put_v forth_o some_o act_n of_o power_n in_o their_o own_o church_n or_o else_o their_o call_n state_n place_n order_n be_v very_o mean_a and_o contemptible_a there_o be_v no_o member_n of_o the_o body_n natural_a not_o the_o least_o but_o it_o have_v in_o your_o notion_n a_o function_n action_n office_n in_o the_o body_n a_o power_n to_o put_v forth_o some_o act_n in_o its_o own_o body_n which_o it_o can_v do_v in_o another_o body_n nor_o the_o member_n of_o another_o body_n in_o its_o body_n the_o question_n be_v not_o of_o some_o act_n of_o power_n but_o some_o act_n of_o power_n of_o the_o key_n which_o be_v a_o office_n power_n but_o say_v you_o still_o every_o member_n of_o the_o body_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n woman_n and_o all_o say_v i_o have_v some_o function_n and_o action_n or_o as_o the_o new_a translation_n office_n in_o the_o body_n ro._n 12.4_o 5._o all_o the_o member_n have_v not_o the_o same_o office_n which_o impli_v they_o all_o of_o they_o have_v some_o office_n though_o not_o the_o same_o true_o sir_n this_o be_v but_o a_o prevarication_n fos_n 1_o by_o body_n there_o be_v not_o mean_v a_o particular_a church_n but_o the_o whole_a church_n we_o be_v many_o be_v one_o body_n in_o christ_n and_o every_o one_o member_n one_o of_o another_o paul_n put_v in_o himself_o and_o he_o be_v no_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o your_o sense_n 2._o when_o they_o render_v the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d office_n they_o either_o mean_v it_o large_o and_o not_o for_o a_o special_a office_n as_o we_o take_v it_o or_o strict_o and_o then_o it_o relate_v to_o the_o officer_n of_o the_o church_n only_o as_o the_o follow_a verse_n may_v seem_v to_o insinuate_v whether_o prophecy_n or_o ministry_n etc._n etc._n where_o yourself_o and_o other_o do_v find_v all_o the_o officer_n of_o the_o church_n and_o so_o take_v it_o be_v nothing_o to_o your_o purpose_n but_o rather_o against_o you_o when_o i_o say_v you_o add_v that_o explication_n whether_o it_o be_v their_o office_n or_o place_n and_o order_n in_o the_o church_n to_o steal_v in_o the_o interest_n of_o the_o people_n in_o some_o share_n of_o the_o key_n you_o answer_v it_o be_v not_o stealth_n but_o justice_n to_o give_v to_o every_o man_n his_o own_o the_o psalmist_n foretell_v it_o in_o a_o new_a song_n psa_n 159.9_o such_o honour_n have_v all_o his_o saint_n etc._n etc._n but_o you_o must_v first_o prove_v it_o their_o own_o and_o that_o that_o text_n be_v so_o to_o be_v understand_v
not_o though_o in_o this_o particular_a controversy_n it_o be_v easy_a to_o find_v what_o antiquity_n have_v say_v or_o have_v forget_v what_o be_v record_v by_o the_o most_o ancient_a antiquity_n for_o the_o space_n of_o the_o first_o three_o hundred_o year_n but_o of_o that_o you_o vouchsafe_v not_o to_o give_v i_o any_o account_n how_o pertinent_a soever_o to_o our_o present_a business_n but_o refer_v i_o to_o that_o account_n you_o have_v give_v m._n baily_n to_o who_o in_o way_n of_o requital_n not_o of_o revenge_n i_o shall_v refer_v you_o to_o wait_v for_o your_o unswer_n but_o you_o say_v what_o power_n you_o give_v to_o the_o church_n of_o believer_n subjectiuè_a you_o allege_v scripture_n for_o it_o which_o when_o vindex_n take_v in_o hand_n to_o evade_v they_o you_o shall_v return_v he_o a_o answer_n you_o do_v allege_v scripture_n and_o the_o assertor_n not_o avenger_n do_v in_o their_o place_n answer_v they_o not_o evade_v they_o as_o you_o phrase_v it_o and_o expect_v your_o reply_n but_o i_o perceive_v he_o may_v go_v seek_v it_o for_o you_o never_o come_v at_o the_o place_n where_o it_o be_v handle_v though_o you_o promise_v here_o and_o once_o or_o twice_o more_o you_o will_v do_v it_o but_o either_o evade_v it_o or_o forget_v it_o of_o which_o more_o anon_o it_o sound_v very_o ill_o i_o say_v at_o first_o hear_v to_o say_v that_o the_o brethren_n have_v any_o power_n in_o the_o key_n or_o ordinance_n of_o preach_v or_o administer_a seal_n or_o censure_n you_o answer_v if_o those_o preach_v the_o word_n and_o administer_a seal_n be_v all_o the_o ordinance_n and_o no_o more_o i_o say_v true_a it_o will_v sound_v ill_a at_o first_o at_o second_o and_o three_o hear_v too_o to_o say_v the_o people_n have_v any_o power_n to_o exercise_v these_o ordinance_n etc._n etc._n but_o 1._o why_o do_v you_o leave_v out_o censure_n which_o not_o only_o i_o put_v in_o but_o yourself_o also_o in_o define_v the_o key_n do_v it_o not_o sound_v ill_a at_o first_o 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together_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v call_v a_o faction_n but_o a_o court_n what_o be_v this_o to_o power_n of_o the_o people_n in_o censure_n unless_o you_o beg_v it_o hence_o that_o the_o word_n curia_n signify_v a_o court_n but_o i_o pray_v what_o mention_n be_v here_o of_o officer_n at_o all_o do_v the_o people_n at_o that_o time_n censure_v alone_o without_o their_o officer_n you_o will_v hardly_o prove_v that_o or_o be_v not_o officer_n good_a and_o honest_a man_n or_o do_v good_a man_n never_o meet_v but_o in_o a_o court_n to_o censure_v as_o for_o cyprian_a you_o leave_v i_o in_o the_o dark_a to_o go_v look_v what_o he_o say_v or_o to_o turn_v back_o to_o what_o you_o say_v to_o m._n baily_n i_o shall_v consider_v the_o place_n and_o his_o testimony_n in_o the_o first_o you_o clear_o to_o my_o understanding_n confute_v your_o own_o way_n of_o ordination_n of_o minister_n thus_o cyprian_n speak_v as_o they_o have_v receive_v from_o the_o apostle_n so_o they_o hold_v it_o that_o for_o the_o orderly_a celebration_n of_o ordination_n all_o the_o neighbour_n bishop_n of_o the_o same_o province_n where_o a_o minister_n be_v to_o be_v ordain_v come_v together_o to_o that_o people_n etc._n etc._n of_o sabinus_n he_o say_v this_o office_n be_v put_v upon_o he_o by_o the_o suffrage_n of_o the_o whole_a brotherhood_n and_o by_o the_o judgement_n of_o all_o the_o pastor_n present_a etc._n etc._n and_o so_o hand_n be_v impose_v on_o he_o i_o pray_v do_v you_o gather_v all_o the_o neighbour_n bishop_n or_o pastor_n of_o the_o province_n where_o a_o minister_n be_v to_o be_v ordain_v do_v those_o pastor_n impose_v hand_n upon_o he_o yet_o these_o cyprian_n say_v they_o receive_v from_o the_o apostle_n true_a it_o be_v the_o minister_n be_v choose_v in_o the_o presence_n of_o the_o people_n and_o good_a reason_n as_o to_o who_o his_o life_n be_v best_a know_v but_o the_o judgement_n of_o his_o ability_n be_v in_o the_o pastor_n as_o also_o the_o imposition_n of_o hand_n but_o the_o people_n have_v their_o suffrage_n that_o be_v nothing_o but_o some_o rational_a consent_n or_o some_o manifestation_n of_o their_o approbation_n not_o any_o authoritative_a vote_n or_o ordination_n 58._o see_v the_o way_n pa._n 41._o and_o 58._o but_o this_o be_v not_o the_o new_a way_n of_o ordination_n for_o you_o allow_v the_o brotherhood_n suffrage_n consent_n judgement_n and_o imposition_n of_o hand_n too_o upon_o their_o officer_n this_o you_o never_o receive_v from_o the_o apostle_n another_o testimony_n be_v this_o the_o people_n fear_v god_n etc._n etc._n have_v chief_o the_o power_n of_o choose_v worthy_a minister_n and_o refuse_v the_o unworthy_a but_o power_n of_o election_n of_o one_o minister_n rather_o than_o another_o and_o rejection_n of_o a_o unworthy_a minister_n be_v not_o deny_v the_o people_n of_o god_n that_o election_n be_v but_o their_o consent_n or_o approbation_n of_o such_o a_o minister_n as_o the_o pastor_n in_o their_o judgement_n think_v fit_a and_o worthy_a and_o rejection_n be_v but_o withdraw_a communion_n from_o one_o unworthy_a and_o judge_v fit_a to_o be_v excommunicate_v but_o this_o we_o say_v be_v no_o part_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n we_o doubt_v not_o but_o pious_a and_o godly_a woman_n shall_v have_v this_o liberty_n or_o privilege_n to_o except_v against_o know_v unworthy_a person_n and_o to_o withdraw_v communion_n from_o they_o yet_o sure_o you_o will_v not_o allow_v they_o power_n in_o the_o key_n when_o cyprian_n say_v all_o thing_n shall_v be_v examine_v you_o be_v present_a and_o judge_a he_n mean_v not_o a_o judgement_n of_o authority_n but_o of_o discretion_n and_o the_o last_o place_n i_o determine_v to_o do_v nothing_o without_o your_o counsel_n and_o consent_n declare_v his_o meaning_n full_o to_o be_v for_o