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A16828 A true, sincere and modest defence, of English Catholiques that suffer for their faith both at home and abrode against a false, seditious and slanderous libel intituled; The exectuion of iustice in England. VVherein is declared, hovv vniustlie the Protestants doe charge Catholiques vvith treason ... Allen, William, 1532-1594. 1584 (1584) STC 373; ESTC S100110 150,813 230

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is forbid to al Christian magistrates both spiritual and temporal and not anie iust rule superioritie or regimēt ouer others to ether kind Or if he had considered that feeding conteineth not onelie preaching but also al kind of iust meanes and holie endeuours for the propagation of the Gospel and mens saluation according to the difference of times persons and places as excommunication and other ecclesiastical censures and corrections which thinges at least perteyning to the spiritual powers directlie our aduersaries should admit and humblie obey and if they so would doe they should neuer need to feare ether the Popes or other mens swordes wherof they make so much impertinent brable Marry they pretend some zeale in the matter affirming that the Popes of Rome The Libellers Zeale for limitation of the Popes svvord and curse before they had thes great temporal states and folowed Christ and the Apostles in humilitie dilated the limites of Christes Church and the faith more in one hundreth yeares then the later Popes haue done with their swordes curses in fiue hundreth yeares To which we say that they seeme now not onelie desirous to haue his tēporal power sword taken from him as they pretended by their former speeches and allegatiōs but also his spiritual weapon and exercise of discipline towardes offendours called here by the Libeller his Curse Which no doubt they vsed of olde vpon such as were subiect to the Church and their regiment no lesse then the Popes doe now and some what more though they could not then before Kinges were conuerted to the faith vse anie discipline or authoritie ouer them much lesse anie humane forces for that they had not then such worldlie preeminence as was due to their high calling in Christ as afterward God hath endewed them withal but were for some hundreth yeares persecuted and put to death by the enimies of Christs faith and glorie In which state it seemeth the aduersaries would haue them stil being miscōtent that they haue ether forces to fight against the Turke or to pursue Heretiques that wil not obey their spiritual sentence or rodde of Excommunication As for conuersion of peoples or nations to the faith Hovv necessarie tēporal habilities are to the Pope whether ther were more brought to Christ ī thos daies and in the poorer worldlie conditiō of Popes then afterward in the dayes of their wealth is not to the purpose to dispute but whether this state of thīges be more agreable to the time present and for the conseruation of Princes and people alredie conuerted or rather the first poore Apostolical condition tha● is to be considered of wise men Though the Libeller shal hardlie proue that moe nations haue bene wholie conuerted in the time of the Popes pouertie and aduersitie then afterward in their greatnes This is sure that our owne English people the most part of Germans Polackers and other northern Countries Conuersions vvrought by later Popes besides the inhabitants of the East and west Indians and other extreme partes of the world haue speciallie bene ether first conuerted or recouered since by the holie trauailes of thes later Popes And further we may be bold to say that the Pope onelie by the powers temporal and spiritual that God hath giuen him doth more at this day for cōuersion and gaining of Panimes Turkes Ievves Mores Heretiques Schismatiques and other Infidels then al the Protestants put together in the world besids other infinite immortal actes of charitie which he doth in manie partes of Christendome which he could neuer doe if he had not such temporal habilities as therunto and to the vpholding of his high and pearles dignitie aboue al particular Prelates and Princes were requisite But of the prerogatiue of the spiritual power as wel in this highe Priest who is subiect to none in earth as in other Prelates of particular prouinces who are often subiect to other Princes we haue said inough to represse the pernicious flatterie of the Libeller and the like that would exempt euerie secular person from al submission and obedience to their Pastours Onelie leauing to al the wise of our Countrie thes few lines of S. Ambrose A most excellēt determination of S. Ambrose about spiritual superioritie Epist 33. for a warning and a watch-word in this cause and for the end in maner of al our dispute Mandatur saith he Trade Basilicam Respondeo Nec mihi fas est tradere nec tibi accipere Imperator expedit Domum priuati nullo potes iure temerare domum Dei existimas auferendam Allegatur Imperatori licere omnia ipsius esse vniuersa Noli te grauare Imperator vt putes te in ea quae diuina sunt imperiale aliquod ius habere Noli te extollere sed si vis diutius imperare esto Deo subditus scriptum est Quae Dei Deo quae Caesaris Caesari ad Imperatorem palatia pertinent ad sacerdotem Ecclesiae publicorum tibi moeniorum ius commissum est non sacrorum In English The commaundement was this Giue vp the Church I answere that it is nether lauful for me to deliuer it nor expedient for the O Emperour to receaue it Thou canst by no right violate anie priuate mans house and thinkest thou the house of God may be taken away But they say the Emperour may doe what he list and that al are his I answere O Emperour be not so much abused as to thinke that thou hast anie Emperial right in diuine matters Extol not thy self but if thow list hold thine empire long be subiect to God for it is written Marc. 17. Luc. 25. The thinges that are Gods to God and that are Cesars to Cesar The palaces perteine to the Emperour the Churches to the Priest The charge of the common wals of the Citie are committed to thee and not the charge of sacred thinges So he spake to Valentinian the Emperour And so we say to our Princesse and to al such as haue charge vnder her Highnes of our Countrie that this Libeller and who els soeuer by lothsome and base flatterie extolling her Regalitie and secular Soueraintie aboue Priesthood and the Apostolique authoritie therby exempting her from al obedience and subiection to Christes Church and to thos whom the holie Ghost hath placed ouer the same Church in earth doe shamefullie abuse them to their and the Realmes destruction except God be merciful aboue our merites We tel them plainlie and sincerlie with the said glorious Doctor and Saint and therupon wil pledge our liues in this world and our soules euerlastinglie and that without detracting any obedience due to her temporal soueraintie in spiritual matters that her Maiesty hath no charge authoritie or power ouer the Church or ecclesiastical affaires no more then the poorest soule in her Realme nor so much nether til she be a member obedient child of the Church and Sea Apostolique With this onelie exception that for the height of her dignitie and by