he to take away from his People all fear and apprehension that he intended to change the Ancient Government called speedily a Parliament anâ— in it consented to a Declaration of thâ— Kingdoms Right in that point without the clearing of which all our other Laws had been useless and the Government it self too of which the Parliament is at the least as Essential a part as the Prince so that there passed a Law in that Parliament that one should be held every year and oftner if need be which like another Magna Charta was confirmed by a new Act made in the time of Edward the Third that glorious Prince nor were there any Sycophants in those days who durst pretend Loyalty by using Arguments to prove that it was against the Royal Prerogative for the Parliament to entrench upon the Kings Right of calling and Dissolving of Parliaments as if there were a Prerogative in the Crown to chuse whether ever a Parliament should assemble or no I would desire no more if I were a Prince to make me Grand Seignior Soon after this last Act the King by reason of his Wars with France and Scotland and other great Affairs was forced sometimes to end his Parliaments abruptly and leave business undone and this not out of Court-tricks which were then unknown which produced another Act not long after by which it was provided That no Parliament should be dismist till all the Petitions were answered That is in the Language of those times till all the Bills which were then styled Petitions were finished Doct. Pray Sir give me a little account of this last Act you speak of for I have heard in Discourse from many Lawyers that they believe there is no such Eng. Gen. Truly Sir I shall confess to you that I do not find this Law in any of our Printed Statute Books but that which first gave me the knowledg of it was what was said about three years ago in the House of Commons by a worthy and Learned Gentleman who undertook to produce the Record in the Reign of Richard the Second and since I have questioned many Learned Counsellors about it who tell me there is such a one and one of them who is counted a Prerogative-Lawyer said it was so but that Act was made in Factious times Besides I think it will be granted that for some time after and particularly in the Reigns of Henry the 4th Henry the 5th and Henry the 6th it was usual for a Proclamation to be made in Westminster-Hall before the end of every Session that all those that had any matter to present to the Parliament should bring it in before such a day for otherwise the Parliament at that day should determine But if there were nothing at all of this nor any Record extant concerning it yet I must believe that it is so by the Fundamental Law of this Government which must be lame and imperfect without it for it is all one to have no Parliaments at all but when the Prince pleases and to allow a power in him to dismiss them when he will that is when they refuse to do what he will so that if there be no Statute it is certainly because our wise Ancestors thought there needed none but that by the very Essence and Constitution of the Government it is provided for and this we may call if you had rather have it so the Common-Law which is of as much value if not more than any Statute and of which all our good Acts of Parliament and Magna Charta it self is but Declaratory so that your Objection is sufficiently aswered in this That though the King is intrusted with the formal part of summoning and pronouncing the Dissolution of Parliaments which is done by his Writ yet the Laws which oblige him as well as us have determin'd how and when he shall do it which is enough to shew that the Kings share in the Soveraignty that is in the Parliament is cut out to him by the Law and not left at his disposal Now I come to the Kings part in the Intervals of Parliament Noble Ven. Sir before you do so pray tell us what other Prerogatives the King enjoys in the Government for otherwise I who am a Venetian may be apt to think that our Doge who is call'd our Prince may have as much Power as yours Eng. Gent. I am in a fine condition amongst you with my Politicks the Doctor tells me I have made the King Absolute and now you tell me I have made him a Doge of Venice But when your Prince has Power to dispose of the Publick Revenue to name all Officers Ecclesiastical and Civil that are of trust and profit in the Kingdom and to dispose absolutely of the whole Militia by Sea and Land then we will allow him to be like ours who has all these Powers Doct. Well you puzzle me extreamly for when you had asserted the King's Power to the heighth in Calling and Dissolving Parliaments you gave me such satisfaction and shewed me wherein the Law had provided that this vast Prerogative could not hurt the People that I was fully satisfied and had not a word to say Now you come about again and place in the Crown such a Power which in my Judgment is inconsistent with our Liberty Eng. Gent. Sir I suppose you mean chiefly the Power of the Militia which was I must confess doubtful before a late Statute declar'd it to be in the King For our Government hath made no other disposal of the Militia than what was natural viz. That the Peers in their several Counties or Jurisdictions had the Power of calling together their Vassals either armed for the Wars or onely so as to cause the Law to be executed by serving Writs and in case of resistance giving possession which Lords amongst their own Tenants did then perform the two several Offices of Lord-Lieutenant and Sheriff which latter was but the Earls Deputy as by his Title of Vice-Comes do's appear But this latter being of daily necessity and Justice it self that is the Lives Liberties and Estates of all the People in that County depending upon it when the greatness of the Peers decay'd of which we shall have occasion to speak hereafter the Electing of Sheriff was referred to the County-Court where it continued till it was placed where it now is by a Statute For the other part of the Militia which is the Arming the People for War it was de facto exercised by Commission from the King to a Lord-Lieutenant as an image of the Natural Lord and other Deputies and it was tacitely consented to though it were never setled by Statute as I said before till His Majesties happy Restauration But to answer you I shall say That whatever Powers are in the Crown whether by Statute or by old Prescription they are and must be understood to be intrusted in the Prince for the preservation of the Government and for the safety and interest of the
and Mr. Attwood of grays-Inne being Gentlemen whom I do mention honoris causa and really they deserve to be honor'd that they will spare some time from the Mechanical part of their Callings which is to assist Clients with Counsel and to plead their Causes and which I acknowledg likewise to be honourable to study the true Interest of their Country and to show how ancient the Rights of the People in England are and that in a time when neither Profit nor Countenance can be hop'd for from so ingenious an undertaking But I beg pardon for the deviation Of the three branches of Soveraign Power which Politicians mention which are Enacting Laws Levying of Taxes and making War and Peace the two first of them are indisputably in the Parliament and when I say Parliament I ever intend with the King The last has been usually exercis'd by the Prince if he can do it with his own Money yet because even in that Case it may be ruinous to the Kingdom by exposing it to an Invasion many have affirmed that such a Power cannot be by the true and ancient free Government of England supposed to be Intrusted in the hands of one man And therefore we see in divers Kings Reigns the Parliament has been Consulted and their advice taken in those matters that have either concerned War or Leagues And that if it has been omitted Addresses have been made to the king by Parliaments either to make war or peace according to what they thought profitable to the publick So that I will not determine whether that power which draws such consequences after it be by the genuine sence of our Laws in the Prince or no although I know of no Statute or written Record which makes it otherwise That which is undoubtedly the Kings Right or prerogative is to Call and Dissolve Parliaments to preside in them to approve of all Acts made by them and to put in Execution as Supream or Soveraign Magistrate in the Intervals of Parliaments and during their Sitting all Laws made by them as also the Common Law for which Cause he has the nomination of all Inferiour Officers and Ministers under him excepting such as by Law or Charter are eligible otherwise and the Power of the Sword to force Obedience to the Judgements given both in Criminal and Civil Causes Doct. Sir You have made us a very absolute Prince what have we left us if the King have all this Power what do our Liberties or Rights signifie whenever he pleases Eng. Gent. This Objection Doctor makes good what I said before that your skill did not terminate in the body natural but extend to the Politick for a more pertinent Interrogatory could never have been made by Plato or Aristotle In answer to which you may please to understand That when these Constitutions were first made our Ancestors were a plain-hearted well-meaning People without Court-reserves or tricks who having made choice of this sort of Government and having Power enough in their hands to make it take place did not foresee or imagine that any thoughts of Invading their Rights could enter into the Princes Head nor do I read that it ever did till the Norman Line came to Reign which coming in by Treaty it was obvious there was no Conquest made upon any but Harold in whose stead William the First came and would claim no more after his Victory than what Harold enjoy'd excepting that he might confiscate as he did those great men who took part with the wrong Title and French-men were put into their Estates which though it made in this Kingdom a mixture between Normans and Saxons yet produced no Change or Innovation in the Government the Norman Peers being as tenacious of their Liberties and as active in the recovery of them to the full as the Saxon Families were Soon after the death of William and possibly in his time there began some Invasions upon the Rights of the Kingdom which begat Grievances and afterwards Complaints and Discontents which grew to that height that the Peers were fain to use their Power that is Arm their Vassals to defend the Government whilest the Princes of that Age first King John and then Henry the Third got Force together The Barons call'd in Lewis the Dauphin whilst the King would have given away the Kingdom to the Sarazens as he did to the Pope and armed their own Creatures so that a bloody War ensued for almost forty years off and on as may be read in our History The success was that the Barons or Peers obtained in the close two Charters or Laws for the ascertaining their Rights by which neither their Lives Liberties or Estates could ever be in danger any more from any Arbitrary Power in the Prince and so the good Government of England which was before this time like the Law of Nature onely written in the hearts of Men came to be exprest in Parchment and remain a Record in Writing though these Charters gave us no more than what was our own before After these Charters were made there could not chuse but happen some encroachment upon them but so long as the Peers kept their greatness there was no breaches but what were immediately made up in Parliament which when-ever they assembled did in the first place confirm the Charters and made very often Interpretations upon them for the benefit of the People witness the Statute de Tallagio non concedendo and many others But to come nearer the giving the Doctor an answer you may please to understand that not long after the framing of these forementioned Charters there did arise a Grievance not foreseen or provided for by them and it was such an one that had beaten down the Government at once if it had not been Redressed in an Orderly way This was the Intermission of Parâ—iaments which could not be called but â—y the Prince and he not doing of it â—hey ceast to be Assembled for some years if this had not been speedily reâ—edied the Barons must have put on â—heir Armour again for who can Imaâ—ine that such brisk Assertors of their â—ights could have acquiesced in an Omission that ruin'd the Foundation of the Government which consisting of King Lords and Commons and having at that time Marched near Five hundred years upon three Leggs must then have gone on hopping upon one which could it have gone forward as was impossible whilest Property continued where it was yet would have rid but a little way Nor can it be wonder'd at that our great Men made no provision against this Grievance in their Charters because it was impossible for them to imagine that their Prince who had so good a share in this Government should go about to destroy it and to take that burden upon himself which by our Constitution was undeniably to be divided between him and his Subjects And therefore divers of the great Men of those times speaking with that excellent Prince King Edward the First about it
People and when either the Militia which is given him for the execution and support of the Law shall be imploy'd by him to subvert it as in the case of Ship-Money it was or the Treasure shall be mis-apply'd and made the Revenue of Courtiers and Sycophants as in the time of Edward the Second or worthless or wicked People shall be put into the greatest places as in the reign of Richard the Second In this case though the Prince here cannot be questionable for it as the Kings were in Sparta and your Doges I believe would be yet it is a great violation of the trust reposed in him by the Government and a making that Power which is given him by Law unlawful in the Execution And the frequent examples of Justice inflicted in Parliament upon the King's Ministers for abusing the Royal Power shews plainly that such authority is not left in his hands to use as he pleases Nay there have befallen sad troubles and dangers to some of these Princes themselves who have abused their Power to the prejudice of the Subjects which although they are no way justifiable yet may serve for an Instruction to Princes and an example not to hearken to ruinous Councils for men when they are enraged do not always consider Justice of Religion passion being as natural to man as reason and vertue which was the Opinion of divine Machiavil To answer you then I say That though we do allow such Powers in the King yet since they are given him for edification and not destruction and cannot be abused without great danger to his Ministers and even to himself we may hope that they can never be abused but in a broken Government And if ours be so as we shall see anon the fault of the ill execution of our Laws is not to be imputed either to the Prince or his Ministers excepting that the latter may be as we said before justly punishable for not advising the Prince to consent to them ending the frame of which we shall talk more hereafter but in the mean time I will come to the Kings other Prerogatives as having all Royal Mines the being serv'd first before other Creditors where mony is due to him and to have a speedier and easier way than his Subjects to recover his debts and his Rents c. But to say all in one word when there arises any doubt whether any thing be the king's Prerogative or no this is the way of deciding it viz. To consider whether it be for the good and protection of the people that the King have such a Power For the definition of Prerogative is a considerable part of the Common Law by which Power is put into the Prince for the preservation of his People And if it be not for the good of his Subjects it is not Prerogative not Law for our Prince has no Authority of his own but what was first intrusted in him by the Government of which he is Head nor is it to be imagined that they would give him more Power than what was necessary to Govern them For example the power of pardoning Criminals condemned is of such use to the Lives and Estates of the People that without it many would be exposed to die unjustly As lately a poor Gentleman who by means of the Harangue of a Strepitous Lawyer was found guilty of Murder for a Man he never kil'd or if he had the fact had been but Man-slaughter and he had been inevitably murdered himself if his Majesty had not been graciously pleased to extend his Royal Mercy to him As he did likewise vouchsafe to do to a Gentleman convicted for speaking words he never utter'd or if he had spoken them they were but foolishly not malitiously spoken On the other side if a Controversie should arise as it did in the beginning of the last Parliament between the House of Commons and the Prerogative-Lawyers about the choice of their Speaker these latter having interested his Majesty in the Contest and made him by consequence disoblige in limine a very Loyal and a very Worthy Parliament and for what for a Question which if you will decide it the right way will be none for setting aside the Presidents and the History when the Crown first pretended to any share in the Choice of a Speaker which Argument was very well handled by some of the Learned Patriots then I would have leave to ask what man can shew and what reason can be alledged why the protection and welfare of the People should require that a Prerogative should be in the Prince to chuse the Mouth of the House of Commons when there is no particular person in his whole Dominion that would not think it against his interest if the Government had given the King Power to nominate his Bayliff his Attorney or his Referree in any Arbitration Certainly there can be no advantage either to the Soveraign or his Subjects that the person whose Office it is to put their deliberations into fitting words and express all their requests to his Majesty should not be entirely in their own Election and appointment which there is the more reason for too because the Speakers for many years past have received Instructions from the Court and have broken the Priviledges of the House by revealing their Debates Adjourning them without a Vote and committed many other Misdemeanours by which they have begotten an ill understanding between the King and his House of Commons to the infinite prejudice both of his Majesties Affairs and his People Since I have given this rule to Judge Prerogative by I shall say no more of it for as to what concerns the King's Office in the Intervals of Parliament it is wholly Ministerial and is barely to put in Execution the Common Law and the Statutes made by the Soveraign Power that is by Himself and the Parliament without varying one tittle or suspending abrogating or neglecting the Execution of any Act whatsoever and to this he is Solemnly Sworn at his Coronation And all his Power in this behalf is in him by Common Law which is Reason it self written as well in the hearts of rational Men as in the Lawyers Books Noble Ven. Sir I have heard much talk of the Kings Negative Voice in Parliaments which in my Opinion is as much as a Power to frustrate when he pleases all the endeavours and labours of his People and to prevent any good that might accrue to the Kingdom by having the right to meet in Parliament for certainly if we in Venice had placed any such Prerogative in our Duke or in any of our Magistracies we could not call our selves a free People Eng. Gent. Sir I can answer you as I did before that if our Kings have such a Power it ought to be used according to the true and genuine intent of the Government that is for the Preservation and Interest of the people and not for the disappointing the Counsels of a Parliament towards reforming
Coach Noble Ven. I shall think it very long till the morning come But before you go pray give me leave to ask you something of your Civil War here I do not mean the History of it although the World abroad is very much in the dark as to all your Transactons of that time for want of a good one but the grounds or pretences of it and how you fell into a War against your King Eng. Gent. As for our History it will not be forgotten one of those who was in Employment from the Year 40. to 60. hath written the History of those 20 Years a Person of good Learning and Elocution and though he be now dead yet his Executors are very unwilling to publish it so soon and to rub a Sore that is not yet healed But the Story is writ with great Truth and Impartiality although the Author were engaged both in Councils and Arms for the Parliaments side But for the rest of your Demand you may please to understand that our Parliament never did as they pretended make War against the King for he by Law can do no Wrong and therefore cannot be quarrelled with The War they declared was undertaken to rescue the King's Person out of those Mens hands who led him from his Parliament and made use of his Name to levy a War against them Noble Ven. But does your Government permit that in case of a disagreement between the King and his Parliament either of them may raise Arms against the other Eng. Gent. It is impossible that any Government can go further than to provide for its own Safety and Preservation whilst it is in being and therefore it can never direct what shall be done when it self is at an end there being this difference between our Bodies Natural and Politick that the first can make a Testament to dispose of things after his death but not the other This is certain that where-ever any two Co-ordinate Powers do differ and there be no Power on Earth to reconcile them otherwise nor any Umpire they will de facto fall together by the Ears What can be done in this Case de jure look into your own Country-man Machiavell and into Grotius who in his Book De jure Belli ac Pacis treated of such matters long before our Wars As for the ancient Politicians they must needs be silent in the Point as having no mixt Governments amongst them and as for me I will not rest my self in so slippery a Place There are great disputes about it in the Parliaments Declarations before the War and something considerable in the King's Answers to them which I shall specifie immediately when I have satisfied you how our War begun which was in this manner The Long Parliament having procured from the King his Royal Assent for their Sitting till they were dissolved by Act and having paid and sent out the Scottish Army and disbanded our own went on in their Debates for the settling and mending our Government the King being displeased with them for it and with himself for putting it out of his Power to dissolve them now the business which they pretended for their Perpetuation was quite finished takes an unfortunate Resolution to accuse five principal Men of the Commons House and one of the Peers of High-Treason which he prosecuted in a new unheard-of way by coming with armed Men into the Commons House of Parliament to demand their Members but nothing being done by reason of the absence of the five and Tumults of discontented Citizens flocking to White-Hall and Westminster the King took that occasion to absent himself from his Parliament Which induced the Commons House to send Commissioners to Hampton-Court to attend his Majesty with a Remonstrance of the State of the Kingdom and an humble Request to return to his Parliament for the Redressing those Grievances which were specified in that Remonstrance But the King otherwise Counselled goes to Windsor and thence Northwards till he arrived at York where he summons in the Militia that is the Trained-Bands of the County and besides all the Gentry of which there was a numerous Appearance The King addressed himself to the latter with Complaints against a prevailing Party in Parliament which intended to take the Crown from his Head that he was come to them his loving Subjects for Protection and in short desired them to assist him with Moneys to defend himself by Arms. Some of these Gentlemen petitioned His Majesty to return to his Parliament the rest went about the Debate of the King's Demands who in the mean time went to Hull to secure the Magazine there but was denied Entrance by a Gentleman whom the House had sent down to prevent the seizing it who was immediately declared a Traytor and the King fell to raising of Forces which coming to the Knowledge of the House they made this Vote That the King seduced by Evil Counsel intended to levy War against his Parliament and People to destroy the Fundamental Laws and Liberties of England and to introduce an Arbitrary Government c. This was the first time they named the King and the last For in all their other Papers and in their Declaration to Arm for their Defence which did accompany this Vote they name nothing but Malignant Counsellors The Kings Answer to these Votes and this Declaration is that which I mentioned wherein His Majesty denies any intention of invading the Government with high Imprecations upon himself and Posterity if it were otherwise and owns that they have Right to maintain their Laws and Government This is to be seen in the Paper it self now extant and this Gracious Prince never pretended as some Divines have done for him that his Power came from God and that his Subjects could not dispute it nor ought he to give any Account of his Actions though he should enslave us all to any but him So that our War did not begin upon a point of Right but upon a matter of Fact for without going to Lawyers or Casuists to be resolved those of the People who believed that the King did intend to destroy our Liberties joyned with the Parliament and those who were of opinion that the prevailing party in Parliament did intend to destroy the King or dethrone him assisted vigorously His Majesty with their Lives and Fortunes And the Question you were pleased to ask never came for both parties pretended and believed they were in the right and that they did fight for and defend the Government But I have wearied you out Noble Ven. No sure Sir but I am infinitely obliged to you for the great care you have taken and still have used to instruct me and beg the continuance of it for to morrow morning Eng. Gent. I shall be sure to wait upon you at nine a Clock but I shall beseech both of you to bethink your selves what to offer for I shall come with a design to learn not to teach nor will I presume in such a
to say much of the Succession of the Crown which is my next Province but this I have said already That it is needless to make any Provision against a Popish Successor if you rectifie your Government and if you do not all the Care and Circumspection you can use in that Particular will be useless and of none effect and will but at last if it do not go off easily and the next Heir succeed peaceably as is most likely especially if the King live till the People's Zeal and Mettle is over end probably in a Civil War about Title and then the Person deprived may come in with his Sword in his Hand and bring in upon the Point of it both the Popish Religion and Arbitrary Power Which though I believe he will not be able to maintain long for the Reasons before alledged yet that may make this Generation miserable and unhappy It will certainly be agreed by all lovers of their Country that Popery must be kept from returning and being National in this Kingdom as well for what concerns the Honour and Service of God as the Welfare and Liberty of the People and I conceive there are two ways by which the Parliament may endeavour to secure us against that danger the first by ordering such a change in the Administration of our Government that whoever is Prince can never violate the Laws and then we may be very safe against Popery our present Laws being effectual enough to keep it out and no new ones being like to be made in Parliament that may introduce it and this remedy will be at the same time advantagious to us against the Tyranny and Incroachments of a Protestant Successor so that we may call it an infallible Remedy both against Popery and Arbitrary power The second way is by making a Law to disable any Papist by name or otherwise from Inheriting the Crown and this is certainly fallible that is may possibly not take place as I shall shew immediately and besides it is not improbable that an Heir to this Kingdom in future times may dissemble his Religion till he be seated in the Throne or possibly be perverted to the Roman Faith after he is possest of it when it may be too late to limit his Prerogative in Parliament and to oppose him without that will I fear be Judged Treason Doct. But Sir would you have the Parliament do nothing as things stand to provide at least as much as in them lies that whoever succeeds be a good Protestant Eng. Gent. Yes I think it best in the first place to offer to his Majesty the true Remedy if they find him averse to that then to pursue the other which concerns the Succession because the People who are their Principals and give them their Power do expect something extraordinary from them at this time and the most of them believe this last the only present means to save them from Popery which they judge and very justly will bring in with it a change of Government But then I suppose they may be encouraged to propose in the first place the true Cure not only because that is infallible as has been proved but likewise because His Majesty in probability will sooner consent to any reasonable Demand towards the Reforming of the Government and to the securing us that way than to concur to the depriving his onely Brother of the Crown And possibly this latter as I said before may be the only way the Parliament can hope will prove effectual For if you please to look but an Age back into our Story you will find that Henry the Eighth did procure an Act of Parliament which gave him power to dispose of the Crown by his last Will and Testament and that he did accordingly make his said Will and by it devise the Succession to his Son Edward the Sixth in the first place and to the Heirs of his Body and for want of such to his Daughter Mary and to the Heirs of her Body and for want of which Heirs to his Daughter Elizabeth our once Soveraign of Immortal and Blessed Memory and the Heirs of her Body and for want of all such Issue to the right Heirs of his Younger Sister who was before he made this Will married to Charles Brandon Duke of Suffolk and had Issue by him By this Testament he disinherited his elder Sister who was married in Scotland and by that means did as much as in him lay exclude His Majesty who now by God's Mercy Reigns over us as also his Father and Grandfather And to make the Case stronger there passed an Act long after in the Reign of Queen Elizabeth That it should be Treason during that Queen's Life and a Premunire afterwards to assert that the Imperial Crown of England could not be disposed of by Act of Parliament yet after the Decease of that Queen there was no considerable Opposition made to the peaceable Reception and Recognition of King James of happy Memory And those who did make a little stir about the other Title as the Lord Cobham Sir Walter Rawleigh and a few others were apprehended condemn'd according to Law And notwithstanding that since in the Reign of K. Charles the First there was a bloody Civil War in which Men's Minds were exasperated at a high rate yet in all the Course of it the Original Want of Title was never objected against His late Majesty I do not urge this to aver that the Parliament with the King's Consent cannot do lawfully this or any other great Matter which would be an incurring the Penalty of that Law and a Solecism in the Politicks But to shew that when the Passions of men are quieted and the Reasons other than they were it happens oftentimes that those Acts which concern the Succession fall to the Ground of themselves and that even without the Sword which in this Case was never adoperated And that therefore this Remedy in our Case may be likely never to take place if it please God the King live till this Nation be under other kind of Circumstances Doct. Sir you say very well but it seems to me that the last Parliament was in some kind of Fault if this be true that you say for I remember that my Lord Chancellor did once duringtheir Sitting in His Majesty's Name offer them to secure their Religion and Liberties any way they could advise of so they would let alone meddling with the Succession and invited them to make any Proposals they thought necessary to that end Eng. Gent. Hinc ille lachrimae If this had been all we might have been happy at this time but this Gracious Offer was In limine accompanied with such Conditions that made the Parliament conjecture that it was only to perplex and divide them and did look upon it as an Invention of some new Romanza Counsellors and those too possibly influenced by the French to make them embrace the Shaddow for the Substance and satisfying themselves with
their consideration what should be done in it it was at length concluded that Themistocles should propose it to Aristides and if he did next morning acquaint the People that he gave his approbation to it it should be proceeded in Themistocles informs him that the whole Fleet of their Confederates in the War against the Medes had betaken themselves to the great Arsenal upon their Coast where they might be easily fired and then the Athenians would remain absolute Masters of the Sea and so give Law to all Greece when Aristides came the next day to deliver his Judgment to the People he told them that the business proposed by Themistocles was indeed very advantageous and profitable to the Athenians But withal the most Wicked and Villanous Attempt that ever was undertaken upon which it was wholly laid aside And the same Judgment do I give Doctor of your Democracy at this time But to return to the place where I was I do belive that this difference may easily be terminated very fairly and that our House need not be pulled down and a new one built but may be very easily repair'd so that it may last many hundred years Noble Ven. I begin to perceive that you aim at this That the King must give the People more Power as Henry the Third and King John did or the Parliament must give the King more as you said they did in France in the time of Lewis the Eleventh or else that it will come in time to a War again Eng. Gent. You may please to know that in all times hitherto the Parliament never demanded any thing of the King wherein the Interest and Government of the Kingdom was concerned excepting Acts of Pardon but they founded their demands upon their Right not only because it might seem unreasonable for them to be earnest with him to give them that which was his own but also because they cannot chuse but know that all Powers which are Fundamentally and Lawfully in the Crown were placed there upon the first Institution of our Government to capacitate the Prince to Govern and Protect his People So that for the Parliament to seek to take from him such Authority were to be felo de se as we call a self-Homicide but as in some Distempers of the Body the Head suffers as well as the Inferiour parts so that it is not possible for it to order direct and provide for the whole Body as its Office requires since the Wisdom and Power which is placed there is given by God to that end In which Case though the Distemper of the Body may begin from the Disease of some other part or from the mass of Blood or putrefaction of other Humours yet since that noble part is so affected by it that Reason and Discourse fails therefore to restore this again Remedies must be apply'd to and possibly Humours or Vapours drawn from the Head it self that so it may be able to Govern and Reign over the Body as it did before or else the whole Man like a Slave must be ruled and guided ab extrinseco that is by some Keeper So it is now with us in our Politick Disease where granting if you please that the Distemper does not proceed from the Head but the Corruption of other parts yet in the Cure Applications must be made to the Head as well as to the Members if we mean poor England shall recover its former perfect health and there fore it will be found perhaps Essential to our being to ask something in the condition we now are to which the King as yet may have a Right and which except he please to part with the Phenomena of Government cannot be salved That is our Laws cannot be executed nor Magna Charta it self made practicable and so both Prince and People that is the Polity of England must die of this Disease or by this Delirium must be Governed ab extrinseco and fall to the Lot of some Foregin Power Noble Ven. But Sir since the business is come to this Dilemma why may not the King ask more Power of the Parliament as well as they of him Eng. Gent. No question but our present Councellours and Courtiers would be nibbling at that bait again if they had another Parliament that would take Pensions for their Votes But in one that is come fresh from the People and understand their Sense and Grievances very well I hardly believe they will attempt it for both Council and Parliament must needs know by this time-a-day that the Cause of all our Distractions coming as has been said an hundred times from the King 's having a greater Power already than the condition of Property at this present can admit without Confusion and Disorder It is not like to mend Matters for them to give him more except they will deliver up to him at the same instant their Possessions and Right to their Lands and become Naturally and Politically his Slaves Noble Ven. Since there must be a voluntary parting with Power I fear your Cure will prove long and ineffectul and we Reconcilers shall I fear prove like our devout Cappuchin at Venice this poor Mans name was Fra. Barnardino da Vdine and was esteemed a very holy Man as well as an excellent Preacher insomuch that he was appointed to Preach the Lent Sermons in one of our principal Churches which he performed at the begining with so much Eloquence and Applause that the Church was daily crouded three hours before the Sermon was to begin the esteem and veneration this poor Fryar was in elevated his Spirit a little too high to be contained within the bounds of reason but before his Delirium was perceived he told his Auditory one day that the true Devotion of that People and the care they had to come to hear his word Preached had been so acceptable to God and to the Virgine that they had vouchsafed to Inspire him with the knowledg of an Expedient which he did not doubt but would make Men happy just even in this Life that the Flesh should no longer lust against the Spirit but that he would not acquaint them with it at that present because something was to be done on their parts to make them capable of this great Blessing which was to pray zealously for a happy Success upon his Endeavours and to Fast and to visit the Churches to that end therefore he desired them to come the Wednesday following to be made acquainted with this blessed Expedient You may Imagine how desirous our People were to hear something more of this Fifth-Monarchy I will shorten my Story and tell you nothing of what crouding there was all night and what quarrelling for places in the Church nor with what difficulty the Saffi who were sent by the Magistrate to keep the Paece and to make way for the Preacher to get into the Pulpit did both But up he got and after a long preamable of desiring more Prayers and Addressing
five parts of six have been alienated and mostly is come into the same hands with those of the King and Peers have inherited likewise according to the course of nature their Power But being kept from it by the established Government which not being changed by any lawfull Acts of State remains still in being formally whereas virtually it is abolished so that for want of outward Orders and Provisions the people are kept from the Exercise of that Power which is faln to them by the Law of Nature and those who cannot by that Law pretend to the share they had do yet enjoy it by vertue of that Right which is now ceased as having been but the natural Effect of a Cause that is no longer in being and you know sublata causa tollitur I cannot say that the greater part of the people do know this their condition but they find very plainly that they want something which they ought to have and this makes them lay often the blame of their unsetledness upon wrong causes but however are altogether unquiet and restless in the Intervals of Parliament and when the King pleases to assemble one spend all their time in Complaints of the Inexecution of the Law of the multiplication of an Infinity of Grievances of Mis-spending the Publick Monies of the danger our Religion is in by practices to undermine it and the State by endeavours to bring in Arbitrary Power and in questioning great Officers of State as the Causers and Promoters of all these Abuses in so much that every Parliament seems a perfect State of War wherein the Commons are tugging and contending for their Right very justly and very honourably yet without coming to a Point So that the Court sends them packing and governs still worse and worse in the Vacancies being necessitated thereunto by their despair of doing any good in Parliament and therefore are forced to use horrid shifts to subsist without it and to keep it off without ever considering that if these Counsellers understood their Trade they might bring the Prince and People to such an Agreement in Parliament as might repair the broken and shipwrack'd Government of England and in this secure the Peace Quiet and Prosperity of the People the Greatness and Happiness of the King and be themselves not only out of present danger which no other course can exempt them from but be Renowned to all Posterity Noble Ven. I beseech you Sir how comes it to pass that neither the King nor any of his Counsellors could ever come to find out the truth of what you discourse for I am fully convinced it is as you say Eng. Gent. I cannot resolve you that but this is certain they have never endeavoured a Cure though possibly they might know the Disease as searing that though the Effects of a Remedy would be as was said very advantagious both to King and People and to themselves yet possibly such a Reformation might not consist with the Merchandize they make of the Princes Favour nor with such Bribes Gratuities and Fees as they usually take for the dispatch of all Matters before them And therefore our Counsellors have been so far from suggesting any such thing to their Master that they have opposed and quashed all Attempts of that kind as they did the worthy Proposals made by certain Members of that Parliament in the beginning of King James's Reign which is yet called the Undertaking Parliament These Gentlemen considering what we have been discoursing of viz. That our old Government is at an end had framed certain Heads which if they had been proposed by that Parliament to the King and by him consented to would in their Opinion have healed the Breach and that if the King would perform his part that House of Commons would undertake for the Obedience of the People They did believe that if this should have been moved in Parliament before the King was acquainted with it it would prove Abortive and therefore sent three of their number to his Majesty Sir James a Croft Grandfather or Father to the present Bishop of Hereford Thomas Harley who was Ancestor to the Honourable Family of that Name in Herefordshire and Sir Henry Nevill who had been Ambassador from Queen Elizabeth to the French King These were to open the matter at large to the King and to procure his leave that it might be proposed in Parliament which after a very long Audience and Debate that wise Prince consented to with a promise of Secresie in the mean time which they humbly begged of His Majesty However this took Vent and the Earl of Northampton of the House of Howard who ruled the Rost in that time having knowledg of it engaged Sir R. Weston afterwards Lord Treasurer and Earl of Portland to impeach these Undertakers in Parliament before they could move their matters which he did the very same day accompanying his Charge which was endeavouring to alter the established Government of England with so eloquent an Invective that if one of them had not risen and made the House acquainted with the whole Series of the Affair they must have been in danger of being impeached by the Commons but however it broke their designe which was all that Northampton and Weston desired and prevented Posterity from knowing any of the Particulars of this Reformation for nothing being moved nothing could remain upon the Journal So that you see our Predecessors were not ignorant altogether of our condition though the Troubles which have befallen this poor Kingdom since have made it much more apparent for since the Determination of that Parliament there has not been one called either in that King's Reign or his Son 's or since that hath not been dissolved abruptly whilst the main businesses and those of most concern to the publick were depending and undecided And although there hath happened in this Interim a bloody War which in the Close of it changed the whole Order and Foundation of the Polity of England and that it hath pleased God to restore it again by his Majesty's happy Return so that the old Government is alive again yet it is very visible that its deadly Wound is not healed but that we are to this day tugging with the same difficulties managing the same Debates in Parliament and giving the same disgusts to the Court and hopes to the Country which our Ancestors did before the Year 1640. whilst the King hath been forced to apply the same Remedy of Dissolution to his two first Parliaments that his Father used to his four first and King James to his three last contrary to his own visible Interest and that of his people and this for want of having Counsellors about him of Abilities and Integrity enough to discover to him the Disease of his Government and the Remedy which I hope when we meet to Morrow Morning you will come prepared to enquire into for the Doctor says he will advise you to go take the Air this afternoon in your
If I say I would have the people stir in that case then the King and his Laws take hold of me and if I should answer that I would have them be quiet the people would tear me in pieces for a Jesuit or at least believe that I had no sense of the Riligion Laws and Liberty of my Countrey De facto I do suppose that if the people do continue long in this heat which now possesseth them and remain in such a passion at the time of the Kings death without setling matters they may probably fall into tumults and Civil War which makes it infinitely to be desired and prayed for by all good English men that during the quiet and peace we injoy by the blessing of his Majesties life and happy Reign we might likewise be so wise and fortunate as to provide for the safety and prosperity of the next generation Doct. But if you would not have the people in such a case take the Duke of Monmouth for their Head what would you have them do Eng. Gent. Doctor you ask me very fine questions do not you know that Machivel the best and most honest of all the modern Polititians has suffered sufficiently by means of Priests and other ignorant persons who do not understand his Writings and therefore impute to him the teaching Subjects how they should Rebel and conspire against their Princes which if he were in any kind guilty of he would deserve all the reproaches that have been cast upon him and ten times more and so should I if I ventured to obey you in this I am very confident that if any man should come to you to implore your skill in helping him to a drug that might quickly and with the least fear of being suspected dispatch an enemy of his or some other by whose death he was to be a gainer or some young Lass that had gotten a Surruptitious great Belly should come to you to teach her how to destroy the fruit I say in this case you would scarce have had patience to hear these persons out much less would you have been so wicked to have in the least assisted them in their designs no more than Solon Lycurgus Periander or any other of the Sages could have been brought to have given their advice to any persons who should have begged it to enable them to ruine and undermine the government of their own Commonwealths Doct. Sir this Reprehension would be very justly given me if I had intended by this question to induce you to counsel me or any other how to rebel my meaning was to desire you who have heretofore been very fortunate in prophesying concerning the events of our changes here to exercise your faculty a little at this time and tell us what is like to be the end of these destractions we are under in case we shall not be so happy as to put a period to them by mending our Government and securing our Religion and Liberty in a regular way Eng. Gent. Doctor I will keep the reputation of Prophecy which I have gained with you and not hazard it with any new predictions for fear they should miscarry yet I care not if I gratifie your curiosity a little in the point about which you first began to Interrogate me by presaging to you that in case we should have troubles and combustions here after his Majesties decease which God avert we must expect a very unsuccesful end of them if we should be so rash and unadvised as to make the great Person we have been lately speaking of our head and that nothing can be more dangerous and pernitious to us than such a choice I have not in this discourse the least intention to except against much less to disparage the personal worth of the Duke of Monmouth which the world knows to be very great but do believe that he hath Courage and Conduct proportionable to any imployment that can be conferred upon him whether it be to manage Arms or Counsels but my opinion is that no person in his circumstance can be a proper head in this case for the people having been already put on upon his scent of the title to the Crown will be very hardly called off and so will force the wiser men who may design better things to consent that he be Proclaimed King immediately except there be some other head who by his Power Wisdom and Authority may restrain the forwardness of the multitude and obviate the acts of some men whose interest and hopes may prompt them to foment the humours of the people Now the consequences of hurrying a man to the Throne so tumultuously without the least deliberation are very dismal and do not only not cure the politick distempers of our Countrey which we have talked so much of but do infinitely augment it and add to the desease our State labours under already which is a Consumption a very violent Feaver too I mean War at home and from abroad which must necessarily follow in a few years nor is it possible to go back when once we have made that step for our new King will call a Parliament which being summoned by his will neither will nor can question his Title or Government otherwise than by making Addresses and by presenting Bills to him as they do to his now Majesty Nob. Ven. It seems to me that there needs nothing more than that for if he consent to all Laws as shall be presented to him you may reform your Government sufficiently or else it is your own fault Eng. Gent. We have shewed already and shall do more hereafter that no Laws can be executed till our government be mended and if you mean we should make such as should mend that besides that it would be a better method to capitulate that before you make choice of your Prince as wise people have done in all ages and the Cardinals do at Rome in the Conclave before they choose their Pope I say besides this it is not to be taken for granted that any Bills that tend to make considerable alterations in the administration and such we have need of as you will see anon would either in that case be offered or consented to both Prince and People being so ready to cry out upon Forty-one and to be frighted with the name of a Common-wealth even now when we think Popery is at the door which some people then will think farther off and so not care to make so great alterations to keep it out besides the great Men and favourites of the new Prince will think it hard that their King should be so bounded and limited both in power and Revenue that he shall have no means to exercise his liberality towards them and so may use their interest and eloquence in both Houses to dissuade them from pressing so hard upon a Prince who is a true zealous Protestant and has alwaies headed that party and who is justly admired if not adored by the people
there were an Army Landed in this Island yet that we must begin there before we are fit to repulse them or defend our selves And the fear and sense of this People universally is that if we should have any War either for our own Concerns or for those of our Allies whilst Matters remain as they do at home it would certainly come to this pass that either being beaten we should subject this Kingdom to an Invasion at a time when we are in a very ill condition to repell it or else if we were Victorious that our Courtiers and Counsellors in fragrante or as the French cry d'emble would employ that Mettle and good Fortune to try some such Conclusions at home as we have been discoursing of And therefore if any War should be undertaken without Parliament you should see the People rejoyce as much at any disaster our Forces should receive as they did when the Scots seized the four Northern Counties in 1639. Or before that when we were beaten at the Isle of Rhee or when we had any Loss in the last War with Holland And this Joy is not so unnatural as it may seem to those who do not consider the Cause of it which is the breach of our old Government and the necessity our Governors are under to make some new experiments And the fear we are in that any Prosperity may make them able to try them either with Effect or at least with Impunity Which Consideration made a Court-Droll say lately to His Majesty who seemed to wonder why his subjects hated the French so much Sir it is because you love them and espouse their Interest And if you would discover this Truth clearly you may please to make War with the King of France and then you shall see that this People will not only love them take their parts and wish them Success but will exceedingly rejoyce when they are Victorious in sinking your Ships or defeating your Forces And this is sufficient to answer your Proposal for Alliances abroad and for a War with France Besides this to wind all up in a Word it is not to be imagined that so good and wise a Prince as we have at this time should ever be induced when he comes to understand perfectly his own Condition to let his own Interest granting his Power to be so which is very false contest with the Safety and Preservation of his People for which only it was given him or that he will be any way tenacious of such Prerogatives as now by a natural Revolution of Political Circumstances are so far from continuing useful to his Governing the People that they are the only Remora and Obstacle of all Government Settlement and Order For His Majesty must needs know that all Forms of regulating Mankind under Laws were ordained by God and Man for the Happiness and Security of the Governed and not for the Interest and Greatness of those who rule unless where there is Melior Natura in the Case So God Governs Man for his own Glory only and Men Reign over Beasts for their own Use and Service and where an Absolute Prince rules over his own Servants whom he feeds and pays as we have said or the Master of a great and numerous Family Governs his Houshold they are both bound by the Law of God and Nature and by their own Interest to do them Justice and not Insaevire or Tyranize over them more than the necessity of preserving their Empire and Authority requires Doct. But Sir considering the difficulty which will be found in the King and possibly in the Parliament too to come up to so great an alteration at the first and the danger that may happen by our remaining long in this unsetled Condition which does hourly expose us to innumerable hazards both at home and from abroad why may we not begin and lay the Foundation now by removing all His Majesty's present Council by Parliament which is no new thing but hath been often practised in many Kings Reigns Eng. Gent. First the Council that is the Privy Council which you mean is no part of our Government as we may have occasion to shew hereafter nor is the King obliged by any Fundamental Law or by any Act of Parliament to hearken to their Advice or so much as to ask it and if you should make one on purpose besides that it would not be so effectual as what we may propose it would be full as hard to go down either with King or Parliament But besides all this you would see some of these Counsellours so nominated by Parliament perhaps prove honest and then they would be forced to withdraw as some lately did because they found I suppose that till the Administration be alter'd it is impossible that their Councils can be imbraced or any thing be acted by them which may tend to the good of their Country those who have not so great a sence of Honour and Integrity will be presently corrupted by their own Interest whilst the Prince is left in possession of all those baits and means to answer such Mens ectpectations It being most certain that if you have a musty Vessel and by consequence dislike the Beer which comes out of it and draw it out causing the Barrel to be immediately fill'd with good and sound Liquor it is certain by experience that both your new Drink and all that ever you shall put into the Cask till it be taken in pieces and the Pipes shaved and new model'd will be full as musty and unsavoury as the first which you found fault with Noble Ven. Now Sir I think we are at an end of our Questions and I for my part am convinced that as the King cannot better himself any way by falling out with his people at this time so that his goodness and wisdom is such that he will rather chuse to imitate the most glorious and generous of his predecessors as Edward the First and Edward the Third than those who were of less worth and more unfortunate as Edward the Second and Richard the Second And therefore we are now ready to hear what you would think fit to ask of so excellent a Prince Eng. Gent. I never undertook to be so presumptuous there is a Parliament to sit speedily and certainly they are the fittest every way to search into such matters and to anticipate their wisdom would be unreasonable and might give them just offence But because all this tittle tattle may not go for nothing I shall presume to give you my thoughts how the Cure must be wrought without descending to particulars The Cause Immediate as we have said of our Disease is the inexecution of our Laws and it is most true that when that is alter'd for the better and that all our Laws are duly executed we are in health for as we can never have the entire benefit of them till our Government is upon a right Basis so whenever we enjoy this happiness to
in And in three Years they shall be all new and no Person to come into that Council or any other of the four till he have kept out of any of them full three Years being as long as he was in And this I learnt from your Quarantia's at Venice and the Use is excellent for being in such a Circulation and sure to have their intervals of Power they will neither grow so insolent as to brave their King nor will the Prince have any occasion to corrupt them although he had the means to do it which in this new Model he cannot have These Men in their several Councils should have no other instructions but to dispose of all things and act in their several Charges for the Interest and Glory of England and shall be Answerable to Parliament from time to time for any malicious or advised Misdemeanor only that Council which manages the Publick Revenue shall besides a very copious and Honourable Revenue which shall be left to His Majesty's disposal for his own Entertainment as belongs to the Splendor and Majesty of the Government have Instructions to serve His Majesty if he pleases to command them and not otherwise in the regulating and ordering his Oeconomy and Houshold and if they shall see it necessary for extraordinary Occasions of treating Foreign Princes and Ambassadors or Presenting them and the like Ostentation of Greatness to consent with His Majesty moderately to charge the Revenue to that end I verily believe that this Expedient is much more effectual than either the Justitia of Aragon was or the Ephores of Sparta Who being to check the King almost in every thing without having any share in his Councils or understanding them could not chuse but make a sullen posture of Affairs whereas these both seem and really are the King's Ministers only obliged by Parliament to act faithfully and honestly to which even without that all other Councellors are bound by Oath As for the other Council now called the Privy Council the King may still please to continue to nominate them at his pleasure so they act nothing in any of the Matters properly within the Jurisdiction of these four Councils but meddle with the Affairs of Merchants Plantations Charters and other Matters to which the Regal Power extendeth And provided that His Majesty call none of the Persons employed in these other four Councils during their being so nor that this Council do any way intermeddle with any Affairs Criminal or Civil which are to be decided by Law and do belong to the Jurisdictions of other Courts or Magistrates they being no established Judicatory or Congregation which either our Government or Laws do take notice of as was said before but Persons congregated by the King as his Friends and faithful Subjects to give him their Opinion in the Execution of his Regal Office As for Example the King does exercise at this time a Negative Voice as to Bills presented to him by the Parliament which he claims by Right no Man ever said that the Privy Council had a Negative Voice yet former Kings did not only ask their Advice as to the passing or not passing of such Bills but often decided the Matter by their Votes which although it be a high Presumption in them when they venture to give him Council contrary to what is given him by his greatest Council yet never any of them have been questioned for it being looked upon as private Men who speak according to the best of their Cunning and such as have no publick Capacity at all But if this be not so and that this Council have some Foundation in Law and some publick Capacity I wish in this new Settlement it may be made otherwise and that His Majesty please to take their Counsel in private but summon no Persons to appear before them much less give them Authority to send for in Custody or Imprison any Subject which may as well be done by the Judges and Magistrates who if Secrecy be required may as well be Sworn to Secrecy as these Gentlemen and I believe can keep Counsel as well and give it too Noble Ven. But would you have none to manage State-Affairs none Imprisoned for secret Conspiracies and kept till they can be fully discovered you have made an Act here lately about Imprisonments that every Person shall have his Habeas Corpus I think you call it so that no Man for what occasion soever can lie in Prison above a Night but the Cause must be revealed though there be great cause for the concealing it Eng. Gent. This Act you mention and a great many more which we have to the same purpose that is against Illegal Imprisonments shews that for a long time the Power over Men's Persons has been exercised under His Majesty by such as were very likely rather to employ it ill than well that is would rather Imprison ten Men for Honourable Actions such as standing for the People's Rights in Parliament refusing to pay Illegal Taxes and the like than one for projecting and inventing Illegal Monopolies or any other kind of oppressing the People This made first Magna Charta then the Petition of Right and divers other Acts besides this last take that Power quite away and make the Law and the Judges the only Disposers of the Liberties of our Persons And it may be when the Parliament shall see the Fruit of this Alteration we are now discoursing of and that State-Affairs are in better hands they may think fit to provide that a Return or Warrant of Imprisonment from one of these Four Councils which I suppose will have a Power of Commitment given them as to Persons appearing Delinquents before them wherein it shall be expressed That if the Publick is like to suffer or be defrauded if the Matter be immediately divulged I say in this Case the Parliament may please to make it Lawful for the Judge to delay the Bailing of him for some small time because it is not to be judged that these Councellours so chosen and so instructed and to continue so small a time will use this Power ill especially being accountable for any abusing of it to the next Parliament And I suppose the Parliament amongst other Provisions in this behalf will require that there shall be a Register kept of all the Votes of these several Councils with the names as well of those who consented as of such who dissented And as to the former part of your Question whether I would have none to manage State Affairs I think there are very few State Affairs that do not concern either Peace and War and Treaties abroad the management of the Arms Militia and posse Comitatus at home the management of all the Publick Moneys and the Election of all Officers whatsoever the other parts of State Affairs which are Making and Repealing of Laws punishing high Crimes against the State with Levying and Proportioning all manner of Impositions upon the People this is reserved
and there is no need of it at all in this Case I have told you before that there is a necessity of a Senate and how short this Government would be without it and how confused in the mean time the Roman Senate was Hereditary amongst the Patricii except the Censor left any of them out of the Roll during his Magistracy for some very great and scandalous offence and in that case too there was an Appeal to the People as in all other Causes witness the Case of Lucius Quintius and many others To shew that there can be no need of such a change here as you speak of you may please to consider that all differences between the several parts of any Government come upon the account of Interest now when this Settlement is made the House of Peers and the House of Commons can have no Interest to dissent For as to all things of private Interest that is the Rights of Peers both during the sitting of Parliaments and in the Intervals is left to their own House to judge of as it is to the House of Commons to judge of their own Priviledges And as for the contest of the Peers Jurisdiction as to Appeals from Courts of Equity Belides that I would have that setled in the Act which should pass concerning the Lords House I believe it will never happen more when the Government is upon a right Foundation it having been hitherto fomented by two different Parties the Court-party sometimes blowing up that difference to break the Session lest some good Bills for the People should pass or that the King by rejecting them might discontent his People to avoid which Dilemma there needed no more but to procure some person to prosecute his Appeal before the Lords some honest Patriots afterwards possibly might use the same policy which they learnt from the Courtiers to quash some Bill very destructive in which they were out-voted in the Commons House otherwise it is so far from the Interest of the Commons to hinder Appeals from Courts of Equity that there is none amongst them but know we are almost destroyed for want of it And when they have considered well and that some such Reformation as this shall take place they will find that it can never be placed in a more honourable and unbyas'd Judicatory than this And I could wish that even in the Intermission of Parliamentary Sessions the whole Peerage of England as many of them as can conveniently be in Town may sit in their Judicial Capacities and hear Appeals in Equity as well as Judge upon Writs of Errour Now as to your other Objection which is indeed of great weight that the House of Commons must needs take it ill that the Lords should frustrate their endeavours for the Peoples good by their Negative If you consider one thing the force of this Objection will vanish which is That when this new Constitution shall be admitted the Lords cannot have any Interest or temptation to differ with the Commons in any thing wherein the Publick good is concerned but are obliged by all the ties in the World to run the same course and fortune with the Commons their Interest being exactly the same so that if there be any dissenting upon Bills between the two Houses when each of them shall think their own Expedient conduces most to the advantage of the Publick this difference will ever be decided by right reason at Conferences And the Lords may as well convince the Commons as be convinced by them and these contests are and ever will be of admirable use and benefit to the Commonwealth the reason why it is otherwise now and that the House of Peers is made use of to hinder many Bills from passing that are supposed to be for the ease of the People is that the great Counsellors and Officers which sit in that House do suggest whether true or false that it is against his Majesties Will and Interest that such an Act should pass whereupon it has found Obstruction but hereafter if our expedient take place it cannot be so first because our King himself cannot have any designs going as was proved before which shall make it his advantage to hinder any good intended his people whose prosperity then will be his own And then because in a short time the Peers being made by Act of Parliament will consist of the best Men of England both for Parts and Estates and those who are already made if any of them have small Estates the King if he had the Interest would not have the means to corrupt them the Publick Moneys and the great Offices being to be dispensed in another manner than formerly so their Lordships will have no Motive in the World to steer their Votes and Councils but their own Honour and Conscience and the preservation and prosperity of their Country So that it would be both needless and unjust to pretend any change of this kind Besides this alteration in the administration of our Government being proposed to be done by the unanimous consent of King Lords and Commons and not otherwise it would be very preposterous to believe that the Peers would depose themselves of their Hereditary Rights and betake themselves to the hopes of being Elected it is true they have lost the Power they had over the Commons but that has not been taken from them by any Law no more than it was given them by any but is fallen by the course of Nature as has been shewn at large But though they cannot lead the Commons by their Tenures as formerly yet there is no reason or colour that they should lose their Co-ordination which I am sure they have by Law and by the Fundamental Constitution of the Government and which is so far from being prejudicial to a lasting Settlement as was said that it infinitely contributes to it and prevents the Confusion which would destroy it If I should have proposed any thing in this Discourse which should have Intrenched upon the King 's Hereditary Right or that should have hindred the Majesty and Greatness of these Kingdoms from being represented by his Royal Person I should have made your Story of the Capuchine Fryar very Applicable to me Noble Ven. I see you have not forgiven me that Novel yet but pray give me leave to ask you one Question Why do you make the Election of Great Officers to be by a small secret Council that had been more proper for a Numerous Assembly as it is in most Commonwealths Eng. Gent. It is so in Democracies and was so in Sparta and is done by your Great Council in Venice but we are not making such a kind of Government but rectifying an ancient Monarchy and giving the Prince some help in the Administration of that great Branch of his Regality besides it is sufficient that our Parliament chuses these Councils that is always understood the Lords and Commons with the Kings Consent besides it is possible that if such