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act_n king_n parliament_n void_a 3,949 5 9.2539 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A07695 The debellacyon of Salem and Bizance More, Thomas, Sir, Saint, 1478-1535.; Saint German, Christopher, 1460?-1540. Salem and Bizance. 1533 (1533) STC 18081; ESTC S110041 188,805 590

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there I shew also the reason wherfore and why And therfore I wene it wyl appere plain that I myssetake not the letter of his treatyse at all that his reason runneth out in dede agaynst euery kynde of men For there is neyther spyrytuall man nor temporall but he maye take harme by habundaunce But so is there as I there saye neyther spyrytuall man nor temporall but he maye wyth haboundaunce do good ¶ But nowe the declaracyon of his mynde in thys answere mendeth al the mater For here he declareth y t by these wordꝭ of his in a maner stranglynge he meaneth the mynyshynge of some feruour as though a man wolde say that by almost killyng with a clubbe he ment the geuynge of a fylyppe in the forhed wyth his lytle fynger ¶ But syth that in this .vi. chapite● of hys his great mortall stranglyng is nowe strangeled away and tourned into venyall synne we shall for this mater trouble you no lēger but eueryman maye take haly water and go home to dyner for seruyce is all done here for to day ¶ The counsayle of saynte Bernarde that he there speketh of to the pope Eugenius is in good fayth as me thynketh very well brought in And I wolde aduyse euery spiritual man to folowe yt and to take good temporal men to hym and let theym do all hys temporall besynesse for hym This thynke I good as for myne owne mynde but yf there be in any parte any lawes made all redy to the contrarye by suche folke as yt can not bycome me to contrall Howe be yt I suppose that myche parte of they re temporall besynesse is done by temporall men in dede ¶ As for his acte of parliament that he speketh of I suppose veryly that the clergye wolde not be agaynst yt And suche actes are there all redy made mo then one good and suffycyent but yf he meane to sette an addycyon therto that ●he kynges grace sholde expressely be bounden by the acte that yf he gaue any lycence of mortysynge into the chyrche yt shold be voyde excepte such cases as thys good man lyste to lymyte and geue hym leue Syth his hyghnes is now moued by this good mā here therto his grace may agre to it when yt pleaseth hym ¶ As for the great mater that he maketh of that I neuer in all the tyme that I was conuersaunt in the court could perceyue any of the noble men aboue the nombre of seuen and yet not nowe so many that euer thought yt good that any possessyons of the chyrche sholde wyth oute a lawfull cause be taken awaye there from I meruayle mych what he meaneth and what subtyll conceyte he conceyueth in his wyse breste that he so mutereth and mūbleth vpon that word as though suche communicacyon eyther on the tone syde or the tother were of suche hygh importaunce that yt were eyther felonye or some heyghnouse mysprisyō eyther in tellyng the tale agayn or els in kepyng yt counsayle so longe For I wote nere in good faythe in whyche of the twayne this good man fyndeth y e faute or whether he fynde any or none But yf he fynde any in which of the twayne so euer he fynd yt he fyndeth but his owne foly For nowe shall you good readers se what lytle insyght the man hath in any thyng that he readeth Fyrst he reherseth a parte of my wordꝭ wryten in myne Apologye fo 130 where I saye that I neuer founde in all the tyme whyse I was conuersaunt in the courte of all the nobylyte of this lande aboue the nombre of seuen y t euer I perceyued to be of y ● mynd that yt were eyther ryght or reasonable or coulde be to the realme profytable wythout lawfull cause to take any possessyons awaye frome the clergye Nowe vpon these wordꝭ ye shall se what he gathereth by whych ye shal se what wyt and what lernynge the man hath These are his wordes lo. Syth mayster More sayth that he hath not knowen aboue seuen wherof he sayth thre are dede that were of the mynde that yt were reasonable wythout cause to take possessyons fro the clergye in whyche wordes yt is coucluded that he knew seuen of that mynde whose opynyons yt lyketh hym to reherse and putte in writynge and in prynte also ¶ This man hath a special insyght in inclusyues and exclusyues when he weneth that in my wordes it were included that I knewe .vii. of that mynde that yt were reasonable to take awaye possessyons fro the chyrche wythout cause My wordes you wote well that I neuer knewe aboue seuen that wythoute lawfull cause to take awaye possessyons fro the chyrche thought eyther ryght or resonable or that yt coulde be to the realme profytable What include these wordꝭ now Do they include as he saith y ● I say that I knew .vii. y t thought yt reasonable Thys mā ys so connynge in hys inclusyues exclusyues that he dyscerneth nothynge bytwene compulatyues and dysiunctyuys This man I se well neuer lerned the rule that almoste euery boy can that to the veryte of a dysiunctyue yt suffyseth any one parte to be trew Let hym now lerne yt therfore and thenne shall he perceyue that my wordꝭ include no farther but that I saye that I knewe seuen which among them all thought some one of those thre thynges that is to wyt eyther some of them some one and some of them some other or els al seuē some one of those thre thinges that is to wyt eyther ryght or reasonable or profytable wythoute any determynacyon whyche of the thre And neyther includeth those wordes of myne that I say all seuen thoughte yt ryght nor that all seuen thoughte yt reasonable no nor yet that all seuen thought yt profytable But yt hangeth not vppon hys determynacyon but vpon myn owne declaracyō which of these thre thinges whyche of those same seuen thought or whyche one of the thre they all thoughte and neuer one of those thre thynges is determinately included to any one of the seuen For yf I wolde saye that I neuer knewe in all my lyfe any man aboue the nomber of seuen that had ben eyther at Alkayre or at Salem or at Bizance do these wordes include that I saye that I haue knowen seuen that haue ben at Salem That am I sure they do not But I maye well stande by those wordes yf I sayde after that I haue knowen seuen persons that haue b●n al seuen at Bizance but as for Alkayre or Salē I neuer knewe any one that hadde ben at any one of them both ¶ And in lyke wyse wyll I well stande by myne other wordes and veryfye theym wyth a good excludyng of this mannes includyng For I say and very trouthe yt is that I neuer found any noble man aboue the nombre of seuen that wythoute lawfull cause to take awaye possessyons fro the clergye thought yt eyther ryght or reasonable or that yt coulde be for the realme profytable I founde