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A81335 A brief discourse proving independency, in church-government, destructive to the positive lawes of this kingdome, and inconsistent therewith. By Robert Derham, of Grayes Inne, Barrister. Published according to order. Derham, Robert. 1646 (1646) Wing D1096; Thomason E344_10; ESTC R200959 7,105 16

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Ecclesiasticall Law corroborating strengthening or assisting woven and interlaced with them are all at one blow cut off and destroyed Also the Common Law Courts à fortiori then the High Court of Parliament have supreme Power in moderating the exorbitancies of the Spirituall Jurisdiction if the Spirituall Courts incroach upon the Common Law yea upon one another as it hath been too familiar of late times especially See before he is free in all cases so long as he continues in the brotherhood the Kings-Bench or Common Pleas by prohibition have power to curb and restrain them although the Common Law holdeth no Plea of them I need not to give you some examples the Law is so plentifull herein I believe Independency frees from the If they will not cast out of their Society a hainou● offender against the lawes what remedy Power of the Civill Magistrate in Matters Coram non Judice as the Law saith as well as in Causes within their cognizance But peradventure it may be objected their Power shall bee regulated their Jurisdiction shall be knowne and if Vpon the point they will assume all d●spensati●n of justice in all cases to themselves and the civill Magistracy shall be contemptible they exceed their limits they shall be under Censure of the Law If this should be admitted which how true it may be I know not yet in causes pertaining unto them it will not be so they will grant no dependency upon the Temporall State in matters Ecclesiasticall the Common Law nor Parliament shall have nothing to do with their judgements which supreme Power hath been by great Antiquity invested both in the Common Law and in the High Court of Parliament yea although in things pertaining to spirituall Jurisdiction and the ground of this you shall see presently I will cite you but two Statutes by which you See the pr●●mble of the said Act of 21. H. 8. Parliaments have power not onely to dispense but to abrogate adnull amplifie or di … sh all human● Ecclesiasticall or Temporall lawes by naturall equity and good reason shall perceive that both in Doctrine and Discipline in the Church the supreme Power hath rested in the civill Magistrate and doth so continue to this day the one is 25. H. 8. 21. granting the Parliament power to enact any thing not repugnant to Holy Writ yea even in matters of Faith and Doctrine in the Church also note the words of this Act further viz. Not minding to seeke for any reliefes suc●ours or Nota. remedies for any wordly things and humane Laws in any cause of necessity but within this Realme at the hands of your Highnesse your Heires and Successours Kings of this Realme which have and ought to have an imperiall Power and Authority in the same and not obliged in any worldly causes to any other Superiour Where observe the largenesse of the words Humane Lawes comprizing whatsoever in Doctrine not repugnant to Scripture or Discipline for the Government of the Church by the King and his great Councell the Parliament shall bee judged expedient as you may see in another branch of this Act immediately fore-going it must be intended The King viz. in his politike capacity conj●yned and united with his High What will become of independent Synods if no Synod be to be called but by the civill power Court of Parliament for so are the expresse words of that branch giving the King Power with the Nobles and Subjects and so must of necessity the second branch be interpreted the other Act is 25. H. 8. 19. enacting no Constitutions Ecclesiasticall of force or to be of force without the royal assent None to be made in fut without leaue and that none be executed repugnant to the Lawes of this Realme What now becomes of this Independent-Government Those already made to be perused by the Parliament if it be contrary to the Lawes of this Realme as it is manifest it is unlesse you destroy Co. Iurisd of Co. tit Convocation the Kings Ecclesiasticall or Temporall or Civill Lawes yea the great mulcts added by the Lawes of this Land by way of assistance or corrobation to many spirituall offences by fine and imprisonment death c. ut poena ad paucos metus ad omnes perveniat wholly lost and taken away by this new frame of Government for sure this Independent State will never demand that Power since no Ecclesiasticall Jurisdiction ever of right enjoyed it I meane the Power to fine and imprison onely Power of imprisonment granted to Bishops and others having Episcopall Jurisdiction and that of Priests only but still the power of Appeal saved by 1. H. 7. 4. What will also become of their power of Excommunication Major or Minor unles they crave aid of the Civill Magistrate to have a Writ of Excommunicato Capiendo who will regard their excommunication it will be but contemptible without the Lawes of this Realme to aid and assist them Thus you see they enervate halfe the Laws of this Kingdome yea their owne strength as formerly I have shewed you by this Anarchy as I may term it They make their owne power despicable being they seeke to abrogate those Lawes which do and must strengthen and assist their Jurisdiction unlesse you will say they shall have that vast Power of fine and imprisonment before-mentioned which surely will never be granted unto them for that were Misera Servitus that a mans body sh●uld rot peradventure with imprisonment his Salvo Contenemeno mentioned in the Laws of this Land so often destroyed and yet no Habeas Corpus the precious liberty of the Subject in course of Justice to be obtained nor any prohibition or legall proceedings to rectifie these enormities The Turkish tyranny were as tolerable Thus I hope I have plainely proved the Ecclesiasticall State must in all things be in Doctrine and Discipline subordinate to the Civill Government as before is specified or else you nullifie and destroy the Lawes and Statutes of this Kingdome It remainoth now to show you the reason why Parliaments of this Land have alwayes exercised this supreme Power over the Ecclesiasticall State one reason was I conceive because the Civill Law which concerneth much the Ecclesiasticall Jurisdiction here established used the same power in the time of the Roman Emperours both before and after they had received the Christian Faith for the space of three hundred yeares after Christ and the distinction of spirituall and temporall causes in point of Jurisdiction was not then known but all Power was in the Civill Magistrate But afterwards out of a zeale they had to grace and Se● Ridley in his view 115 116 117. honour the godly and learned Bishops of that time they were pleased to single out certaine speciall causes wherein they granted Jurisdiction unto the Bishops namely in cases of Tithes because they were paid to men of the Church in causes of Matrimony because Marriages were for the most part
A BRIEF DISCOURSE PROVING JNDEPENDENCY IN Church-Government Destructive to the Positive Lawes of this KINGDOME and inconsistent therewith By ROBERT DERHAM of Grayes Jnne Barrister Published according to Order July 13th LONDON Printed for Thomas Bates at the Maidenhead on Snow-hill neere Holborne Conduit 1646. To the Reader Courteous Reader IF thou beest Jndependent in thy opinion yet J hope thou art not an enemy to the Lawes of this Kingdome which are thy Birthright as well as thy Possessions Peruse this Work without passion or partiality see if thy tender affections will suffer thee to divide the Child J meane the Temporall and Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction which if done must needs prove destructive and fatall to both They are Twinnes lovingly imbracing each other seeke not thou to sever this unity they are acquainted with each others wants and defects having such sweet intercourse the one with the other in legall proceedings indeavour not thou by estranging them the one from the other to endanger the ruine of both lest thou unhappily prove not onely a Patricide but Occisor Patriae J will say no more but commit thee to God and his goodnesse Farewell A briefe Discourse PROVING JNDEPENDENCY IN CHURCH-GOVERNMENT Destructive to the Positive Lawes of this Kingdome and inconsistent therewith THe subject that I intend to debate at this time is not whether Presbyteriall or Independent Government in the Church simply of themselves considered bee most warrantable by divine Authority but how they stand with relation to the Lawes of this Kingdome for that shall be the compasse of my thoughts at this time wherein I shall not labour to justifie the Lawes of this Realm by the sacred Rule expresly for surely some of them Con … vall to the people of this Nation so as it cannot possibly be ruled by any other Law being Customes made by themselves 〈◊〉 Prince being the Low-giver many Statut●s especially in this Discourse mentioned being declaratory of these Customes sworne to by Kings and People An●thema on them pronounced that seeke to alter any of the fundamentall Customes or Laws Premunire high Treason by Law or the most are praeter Scripturas not Contra they being laudable constitutions generally received yea allowed by Gods Word implicitè though not explicitè so that they may be inconsistent with the Independent Government in the Church so much now contended for although we should admit the said jurisdiction warranted by Holy Writ and yet no blemish to the Civill Magistracy Come wee then to the point What say the positive Laws which are the common Law or Statutes The common Law and Statute in this particular appear in the Act of 1. Elizabeth 1. for that Act is but declaratory of the ancient common Law as it was resoved in Cawdries Case by all the Judges of England not of any new Law introductive The words of that Statute are That such Jurisdiction ecclesiasticall as by any spirituall or ecclesiasticall power hath heretofore been or may be lawfully exercised for the visitation The Kings Lawes limit and bound the Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction 5. Eliz 23. Co. Iurisd of Courts 321. of the ecclesiasticall Estate Persons and for Reformation Order and Correction of the same and of all manner of Errors Heresies Schisms abuses Offences Contempts and Enormities shall for ever be united and annexed to the imperiall Crowne of this Realme and that her Highnesse her heirs and Successours shall have power to nominate Commissioners to exercise all Jurisdiction eccesiasticall in the causes before-named c. So that although the high Commission grounded upon this Act be taken away yet the Jurisdiction still remaineth in the imperiall Crowne to be dispensed in these causes before named as the ancient Law of this Land also in all other causes Ecclesiasticall the King by his Ecclesiasticall Judges ministreth justice wherein if a man be injured in any Court he may have redresse by Appeale to a higher Jurisdiction and for default of Justice in the Ecclesiasticall Courts last of all to the King as supreme in his High Court of Chancery as appeareth by the Act of 25. H. 8. cap. 19. See here justice subordimately ministred and the King or civill Magistrate in all Causes Ecclesiasticall supreme in point of Jurisdiction Now that the Independent Government in the Church takes away all * In civill causes as well as others untill the offendor be cast out of the Church and then you may appeale to the civill Magistrate not before in matters of personall injury onely not in matter of scandall Appeals in matters pertaining to their cog●izance I suppose needeth no proofe at all it is so clear Their very title and name intimates as much they are Independent viz. they depend upon no other Court of Justice to give account of their Actions judicially by Appeal or otherwise They stand not at Caesars Judgement-seat that is the temporall Magistracy they are like the great Potentates of the Earth accountable to none but God in case injustice be found in their judgements if in their wisdomes errour appeare as Humanum est errare you may fill Iustification of Independency by Chidley the skies with complaints bootlesse If any shall be censured in their Judicatories for prophanation of the Sabboth by working on that day tipling in Ale-houses or the like if he be injured he cannot have justice elsewhere whereas the Ecclesiasticall and Statute Law in those cases give Appeale as appeares by 25. H. 8. before mentioned 4. Jacob. 5. 3. Caroli 1. In all which cases if he be proceeded against by Censure Ecclesiasticall or Temporall he hath remedy by Appeale errour or other legall course to right himselfe if injured If in Doctrine or Discipline this Independent Governour with his Assistants shall be hereticall erroneous or scandalous to the Government or any particular person no remedy but as it is truly said of the Divine Majestie Confugiendum à Domino i●●to ad Dominū placatum Whereas by 2. H. 4. 15. 13. Eliz. 12. he is to be censured for heresie by the Bishop of the Diocesse and to be delivered to the secular power to be burned And if he shall maintaine any Doctrine contrary or repugnant to the Articles of the Church of England and penist therein he is to be deprived of all his Ecclesiasticall promotions and further to be punished by the Ecclesiasticall Law as appeares by 13. Eliz. aforesaid If he shall preach any Doctrine scandalous to the Civil Government he may be indicted at Common Law and punished according to the quality of the Crime In all which cases there lyeth remedy by Error or Appeale See now at one view how many Lawes are nullified by this strange and unheard of power I might instance unto See C●vvd●ies case where they are recited you throughout all matters of which the Ecclesiasticall Jurisdiction hath cognizance Ancient or Moderne the same mischiefs follow no Appeal no Redresse Besides the Common Law and Statutes many and numerous depending upon the