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A69202 Generall demands concerning the late covenant propounded by the ministers and professors of divinitie in Aberdene, to some reverend brethren, who came thither to recommend the late covenant to them, and to those who are committed to their charge. Together with the answers of those reverend brethren to the said demands. As also the replyes of the foresaid ministers and professors to their answers. Henderson, Alexander, 1583?-1646.; Forbes, John, 1593-1648.; Hamilton, James Hamilton, Duke of, 1606-1649. 1638 (1638) STC 66; ESTC S100396 26,442 56

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record is on high That Lord who only seeth the secrets of hearts knoweth that we love his truth and are ready so soon as it shall be shown unto us to embrace and professe it before the world Next we appeal to the consciences of all impartiall readers who shall have occasion to weigh and consider maturely the weight of our arguments and of these answeres which it hath pleased you to give us wishing them yea most humbly and earnestly intreating them to judge both of your writings and ours without prejudice or any partiall respect Yea we are confident that ye also of whose love to the truth of GOD we are perswaded will after better advisement and more mature consideration of the matters debated acknowledge that we are not against the truth but for it The Lord open your eyes that you may clearly see that truth for which we stand WE objected to you Reverend Brethren that you had not a calling to urge us to the subscription of the late Covenant from any acknowledged authoritie or lawfull Judicatorie established in this Church or Kingdome to which objection ye answere not here particularly as we expected And whereas you say That you are come to exhort us and our people in all humility to joyn with you How is it that without our consent and against our will not having lawfull authority which you seem here not to acclaime to your selves you have publickly preached to our people within our Congregation which is a thing repugnant to those places of Scripture in the which the Spirit of God recommendeth to Elders or Pastors the care of those flocks over which the holy Ghost hath made them over-seers Acts 20.28 1 Pet. 5.2 as also telleth us That the Pastors whom the flock must know and to whom they must submit themselves do watch over the souls of that flock and must give account for them 1. Thessal 5.12 Hebr. 13.17 It is also contrarie to the laws of the Christian Church in all ages For by the ancient Canons Pastors are commanded to containe themselves within the limits of their own charge and not to presume to exercise Pastorall office in another Pastors Diocesse or Parioch without leave As also they forbid Pastors to receive to divine service any man of another Parioch that commeth in contempt of his own Pastor Concil Nicen. 1. Oecum 1. Can. 16 Concil 2. Oecum Constantinop Can. 2. Concil Carthag 2 Can. 11. Concil Carthag 3. Can. 20. Concil Chalced. Oecum 4. Can. 13. Concil Nicen. 2. Can. 10. Concil Tribur Can. 28. Concil Nannet Cap. 1. 2. ¶ 2. We did not without reason say That you and others of your confederation enforce your interpretation of the Negative confession upon others seeing we hear that some Pastors and Prelates are forced to flee to forraigne countreys for fear of their lives because they have refused the said interpretation and those who have stayed in the countrey dare scarcely appear in the high wayes or streets and are threatned That their stipends shall not be payed unto them untill they subscribe your Covenant ¶ 3. Whereas you do in brotherly love exhort and entreat us to contribute our best endeavours for extinguishing the common combustion we praising God for your pious zeal and for the lovingnesse and modesty of your speeches wherein by Gods help we shall labour to keep correspondence with you that both we and you may shew our selves to have learned of Christ Meeknesse and lowlinesse of heart we most willingly promise to do so by all means which our consciences will permit us to use as also to joyn our most humble and hearty prayers with yours That it may please God in this dangerous exigent To do good in his good pleasure to our Sion and to build up the wals of our Ierusalem ¶ 4. We may justly say That this new Covenant is substantially different from the old which was made Anno 1581. in respect it not only containeth that old covenant or confession which was allowed by two generall assemblies but also your interpretation of it which as yet hath no such authority or approbation ¶ 5. No band of mutuall defence against all persons whatsoever is expressed in the Covenant made 1581. And although it were yet the case is very unlike For subjects may make such a Covenant of mutuall defence by armes with the consent of the King who only under God hath the power of armes or of the sword in this kingdome But they who made this late Covenant had not his consent as that former or old Covenant had which is a thing so evident that no man can call it in question ¶ 6. As for that which you affirm here That my Lord Commissioner his Grace was well satisfied with your declaration it becommeth not us to pry narrowly into his Graces doings but truly we have more than reason to pry most narrowly into the words of a Covenant which is offered unto us to be sworn and subscribed left we abuse and prophane the sacred name of God and tye our selves to the doing of any thing which is displeasing unto him Last of all whereas ye desire us to joyn our selves to you and to the rest of your confederacie who are as you affirm almost the whole Church and Kingdome Truly we cannot but reverence such a multitude of our reverend brethren and dear countrey-men and are ready to be followers of them in so far as they are followers of Christ But neither can we do any thing against the truth neither can we attribute so much authoritie to their multitude as otherwise we would in respect there hath been so much dealing for subscriptions in all quarters of this Kingdome and so many have been threatned to give their consent as we are most credibly informed THE II. DEMAND WHether or no we ought to subscribe the foresaid covenant seeing all covenants of mutuall defence by force of armes made amongst subjects of any degree upon whatsoever colour or pretence without the Kings Majestie or his Successours privitie and consent are expresly forbidden by King JAMES of blessed memorie and the three Estates of this Kingdome in the parliament holden at Linlithgow Anno. 1585 ANSVVER THe act of Parliament forbiddeth in the first part leagues and bands of maintenance privily made such as are called bands of Manrent as the act in Queen Maries time to which it hath relation doth bear And in the second part only such as tend to the publick disturbance of the peace of the Realme by moving sedition But no act of Parliament doth discharge nor can any just law forbid Conventions or Covenants in the generall or such Covenants in speciall as are made with God and amongst our selves not for any mans particular but for the common benefit of all not to move sedition but to perserve peace to prevent trouble which by all probability had been to many before this time too sensible if this course had not been taken Conventions and
Covenants in the judgement of Jurisconsults are to be esteemed and judged of according to their diverse ends good or bad which made King James of happie memorie to take it for an undoubted maxime That pro aris focis pro patre patriae the whole body of the Common-wealth should stirre at once not any more as divided members but as one consolidate lump REPLY IN that second part of that act of Parliament holden at Linlithgow Anno 1585. are forbidden All leagues or bands of mutuall defence which are made without the privitie and consent of the King under the pain to be holden and execute as movers of sedition and unquietnesse c. Wherefore we can no wayes think that any bands or leagues of mutuall defence by force of armes are there permitted that is not forbidden seeing first the words of the act are so generall for in it are discharged All bands made amongst subjects of any degree upon any colour whatsoever without his Highn●sse or his Successours privitie and consent had and obtained thereunto Next all such bands are declared to be seditious and perturbative of the publick peace of the Realme or which is all one are appointed to bee esteemed so And therefore we cannot see how any bands of that kinde can be excepted as if they were not seditious 2. We doubt not but the late Covenant being considered according to the main intention of those pious and generous Gentlemen Barons and others our dear countreymen who made it especially our reverend brethren of the holy ministery is a Covenant made with God and proceeding from a zealous respect to Gods glory and to the preservation of the puritie of the Gospel in this Church and Kingdome But we cannot finde a warrant in our consciences to grant That such Covenants in so farre as they import mutuall defence against all persons whatsever none being excepted no not the King as it seemeth unto us by the words of your Covenant but far more by the words of your late Protestation the 28 of Iune wherein you promise mutuall defence against all externall or internall invasion menaced in his Majesties last Proclamation are not forbidden by any band nor justly yet can be forbidden For first we have alreadie shown That they are forbidden in the foresaid act of Parliament Anno 1585. 2. No warfare and consequently no covenant importing warfare is lawfull without just Authoritie which we are perswaded is onely in the supreme Magistrate and in those who have power and imployment from him to take armes yea so farre as we know all moderate men who duely respect Authority will say That it is so in all Kingdomes and Monarchies properly so called of which nature is this his Majesties most ancient Kingdome And that it is altogether unlawfull to subjects in such Kingdomes to take armes against their Prince For which cause that famous and most learned Doctour Rivetus in a late Treatise called Iesuita vapulans speaking of the judgment of Buchanan and others who taught That subjects might take armes against their Prince in extraordinary cases and extreme dangers of the Religion and Common-wealth professeth first That he and all other Protestants condemne such doctrine Secondly That this errour did proceed from a mistaking of the government of the Scotish Kingdome as if it were not truely and properly Monarchicall Thirdly That the rashnesse of those writers is to be ascribed partly to the hard and perilous times of persecution wherein they lived and partly Scotorum praefervido ingenis ad audendum prompto Thus he writeth in the 13. Chap. of the said book Pag. 274. and 275. answering to the Recrimination of a Iesuit who had affirmed That Buchanan Knox and Goodman had written as boldly for the rebellion of Subjects against Princes as any of their order at any time had done A thing much to be noted by us at this time lest we any more give that advantage to Iesuites to make Apologie for their rebellious doctrines and practises 3. Not only making of Covenants but also all other actions are to be esteemed and judged of first by the equitie of the subject and matter then by the end for if the matter pactioned that is which the parties mutually do promise be justly forbidden by a lawfull Authoritie and consequently be unlawfull in it self then the goodnesse of the end or project cannot make the paction or Covenant to be good or lawfull THE III. DEMAND IF it be alledged That in extreme and most dangerous cases such acts of Parliament may be contraveened Quaeritur Whether there be now such extreme case seeing we have his Majestie in his former Proclamations avowing protesting declaring and in this last Proclamation taking God to witnesse that he never intended any innovation of Religion and also seeing he hath removed alreadie all that which made men fear novations to wit Service book book of Canons and the alledged exorbitancie of the new high Commission ANSVVER IF the removing of the Service book book of Canons and the limitation of the vast power of the high Commission containing so much superstition and tyranny of Prelates be a benefit to this Kirk and Kingdome we ought under God to ascribe the same to the peaceable meetings humble supplications and religious covenanting of the subjects which have given information to his Majestie and have procured from his justice and goodnesse so great favour as is thankfully acknowledged in the last Protestation which doth also expresse the many particulars wherein his Majesties late Proclamation is not satisfactorie And therefore the Lords of his Majesties privie Councel upon the supplication and complaint of his Lieges were moved to rescind the act of the Approbation of the foresaid Proclamation and to rend the subscribed Missive which was to be sent therewith to his Majestie We are confident that the Declaration wherewith his Majesties Commissioner was so well pleased will also give satisfaction to our reverend brethren and that they will not think it convenient for them to give further approbation to the Proclamation than the Councel hath done although all of us ought with thankfulnesse to acknowledge his Majesties benignitie REPLY WE will not here dispute what hath been the maine or principall cause moving his sacred Majesty to discharge the Service booke and other things which occasioned the present perturbation of our Church nor yet whether or not his Majesties proclamation may give full satisfaction to all the feares and doubts of his subjects For our selves we professe that upon his Majesties declaration and gracious promise contained in his Majesties last proclamation we beleeve first That his Majesty never intended innovation in religion Secondly That he will maintain the true Protestant religion all the dayes of his life which we pray God to continue long Thirdly That all acts made in favours of the Service boook c. are discharged Fourthly That he will never urge the receiving of the Service book Book of Canons c. nor any other
acknowledge the truth of that which we affirmed there 2. VVe have already shown That the oath which ye require of us importeth more than the forbearance of the practice of Pearth articles for a time 3. The forbearance of some of them seemeth to us to be meerly unlawfull and contrary to that pastorall duty we owe to our flock 4. The forbearance of any of them considered with a relation to the authority enjoyning them in our judgement is plain disobedience THE VII DEMAND WHether it be agreeable to charity or piety to require us to abjure these rites as Popish which in the sincerity of our hearts following the light of our conscience whereof we take God to witnesse we have hitherto practised as lawfull and laudably following the same light do yet practise them But suppose this might be required of us by any Quaeritur Whether or no it becometh them so peremptorily and upon such a suddenty to urge us to this who these by-gone twenty years have desired earnestly to enjoy the freedome of their consciences in their Ministerie even in denying obedience to these things and standing laws for them and when they were urged to obedience did so often protest and earnestly request That they might have a time to be well enformed and maturely advised of the matter which to the most part of them was most graciously granted Let them therefore look to that naturall Maxime Quod tibi fieri non vis alteri ne feceris and to our Saviours precept of the same sense and almost of the same words Mat. 7. vers 12. ANSWER WE hope that such a forbearance of the practise will prejudge the liberty of no mans conscience REPLY IT would much prejudge our consciences to swear and subscribe the negative confession taking it according to your conception and meaning who require our oath 2 How can we swear to labour by all means lawfull as ye require in your covenant to expell those things whereof we hold some to be necessary and all the rest to be lawfull and laudable THE VIII DEMAND WHether it be fitting to swear to defend the Kings Person and Authoritie with this limitation In the defence and preservation of the true Religion laws and liberties of this Kingdome As if their persons ought not to be defended against all enemies although as yet they embraced not the truth or having before embraced it yet have fallen from it or as if their royall Authority were not to be acknowledged although commanding things unlawfull and as if we were not subject thereto in yeelding to suffer under them when we give not active obedience to them ANSWER 1. THe answer of the first Demand may give satisfaction here 2. The Specification of the defending the Kings Person and Authority in the defence of the true religion laws and liberties of the Kingdome is warranted by the Confession ratified in Parliament by other acts of Parliament by the other Confession and by the generall band joyned with it 3 No man will with-hold his Subscription from the Covenant because it doth not as it intendeth not to expresse every duty we owe to the Kings Majestie as if the not naming were a denying of the duty REPLY WHat ye have replyed in your Answer to our first Demand we have examined in our confutation of your Answer 2. If ye consider well all the circumstances of the making of your Covenant ye will finde that it had not been amisse at this time to have expressed more fully the loyaltie of your intentions to maintain the Kings person and honour Next it is necessary to expresse it yet more fully for our cause whom ye require to swear and subscribe your Covenant lest we do any thing in this matter with a doubting conscience which is a grievous sin that is Doubting whether or no we are tyed by our oath to maintain the Kings authority only in so far as it is employed in the defence of the foresaid true Religion or at least as it is not employed against it For it seemeth to us unlawfull to swear the maintenance of the Kings authoritie with this limitation precisely And if ye be of a contrary minde we are most willing to confer with you of this point THE IX DEMAND WHether or no we can sincerely swear to maintain the Authoritie truely and properly monarchicall of the King and withall swear also disobedience to these articles which are authorized by his standing laws and to maintain the meanest of his subjects against him in their disobedience of his laws as yet standing in vigour concerning these things ANSWER 1. THe answer to the first Demand is usefull here also 2. Forbearance of practise for a time in such a case is rather obedience than disobedience for example Kneeling was thought convenient because all memorie of superstition was past should it not therefore be forborn because superstition is now revived and flagrant They who practise keep the letter of the law but they who forbear keep the life and reason thereof REPLY YOur Covenant requireth more of us than the forbearance of the practise of Pearth articles as we have often times declared 2 We have also shown That the forbearance of obedience to standing laws without license of Superiours and contrary to their commandment especially if it be done by deliberation and if men tye themselves by an oath to do so is manifest disobedience 3 The article of Pearth anent kneeling was not grounded only nor yet principally upon that narrative which ye mention but rather upon the conveniencie and decencie of the gesture of kneeling in the receiving of the holy Sacrament which reason doth yet continue as also the other reason which ye mention holdeth yet for the body of the people of this Church were never papists and consequently have no memorie of popish superstition as those who lived in time of reformation 4 We cannot see nor conceive how a vow and band of maintaining the meanest subject of this Kingdome against all persons whatsoever and consequently against the King himself as we have shown in our second Reply in disobedience of his laws can consist with that love reverence and subjection which we owe to our King Neither have ye brought any thing in your Answer to satisfie us in this point And because ye alledge as we hear that ye are mistaken in this point and do vindicate your selves by those words of the Covenant wherein ye promise to maintain the Kings authoritie we pray you to expresse your minde more fully concerning it and to show us 1 What ye mean by maintaining the Kings authoritie in that part of your Covenant wherein ye expresse your loyall intention To maintain the Kings person and authoritie and in speciall Whether or no the maintaining of the Kings authoritie be taken by you as it excludeth all resisting of his Authoritie by force of arms even although he should command things unlawfull and contrarie to the truth For so we think it should be