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A30986 That the bishops in England may and ought to vote in cases of blood written in the late times upon occasion of the Earl of Straffords case / by [a] learned pen ; with some answers to the objections of the then Bishop of Lincoln, against bishops voting in Parliament. Barlow, Thomas, 1607-1691. 1680 (1680) Wing W2677C; Wing B845; ESTC R17167 16,504 22

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Kingdom and therefore they are abolished by the Statute of 25 Henry the 8 th 2. So are they by the same Statute because the Lords have declared That the Bishops Vote here by the Laws and Statute of this Realm And all Canons that Cross with these are there abolished 3. So are they by the same Statute as thwarting the Kings Prerogative to call Bishops by Summons to Vote in Parliament 4. So are they by the Vote in the House of Commons 21 Maij. 1641 Because they are not Confirmed by Act of Parliament 5. This Argument was deserted by Mr. Perpoint and confest to be but an Argumentum ad hominem Arg. IIII. Because the twenty four Bishops have a dependancy upon the Arch-Bishops and because of their Oath of Canonical obedience to them Answer 1. They have no dependancy upon the Arch-Bishops but in points of Appeal and Visitation only and owe them no Obedience but in these two points None at all in Parliament where they are Pares they are equals and as Bracton tels us Par in Parem non habet imperium What hath Canonical Obedience to do with a Vote in Parliament declared in this Bill to be no Ecclesiastical but a Secular Affair 2. This Argument reacheth not the two Arch-Bishops discharged in the Rubrick from this Oath and therefore is no Reason for the passing of this Bill Arg. V. Because they are but for their Lives and therefore are not fit to have Legislative Power over the Honours Inheritances Persons and Liberties of others Ans. 1. Bishops are not for their Lives only but for their Successors also in their Land and Honour As the Earls and Barons also are for their Successors in their Lands and Honours and holding their Lands in Fee-Simple may with as good reason Vote in the Honour Inheritance Persons and Liberties of others as others may and do in theirs 2. Many Peers have been Created for their Lives only and the Earl of Surrey for the Life of his Father who yet Voted in this House 3. The Knights Citizens and Burgesses are chosen for one Parliament only and yet use their Legislative Power nor will their being Elected difference their Case for the Lords use that Power in a greater eminency who are not Elected 4. A Burgess that hath a free-hold but for term of Life only may Vote and assent to a Law in Parliament 5. No such exception ever heard of in the Diets of Germany the Corteses of Spain or the three Estates in France where the Prelates Vote in all these points with the Nobility and the Commons Arg. VI. Because of Bishops dependancy and expectancy of Translations to places of greater profit Answ. 1. This Argument supposeth all Kings and all Bishops to be very faulty if they take the time of their Votes in Parliament from these dependancies and expectancies 2. This may be said of all the Kings great Officers of all the Noble Members of both Houses who may be conceived as well as Bishops to have their Expectancies and consequently to be deprived by this Reason of Voting in Parliament 3. This Argument reacheth not at the two Arch-Bishops and so falls short of the Votes which are to be taken away by this Bill Arg. VII That several Bishops have of late much encroached upon the Consciences and properties of the Subjects and they and their Successors will be much encouraged still to encroach and the Subjects will be much discouraged from Complaining against such encroachments if 26 of that Order be to be Judges upon these Complaints The same Reason extends to their Legislative Power in any Bill to pass for the regulation of their Power upon any emergent inconveniency by it Answ. 1. This Argument fights not against Bishops Votes in Parliament but against their Votes in Convocation where if any where they have encroached upon the Consciences and Properties of the Subject Nor yet at the Votes of such Bishops there as are not guilty of this Offence Nor need the Subject to be discouraged in Complaining against the like Grievance though 26 of that Order continue Judges for they shall not Vote as Judges in their own Cause when they are Legally Charged And if they should Vote what were that to the purpose when the Lay-Peers are still four to one The Bishops Assisted with a double Number of Mitred Abbots and Priors could not hinder the Laws made against the Court of Rome the Alien Cardinals and Prelates the Provisors the Suiters to the Popes Consistory under Edw. 3 d Rich. 2 d and Hen. 4 th Much more may those emergent exhorbitances of the Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction be soon curbed and redressed in this inequality of Votes between the Temporal and Spiritual Lords So as this Argument doth not so much hurt the Votes as it quails the Courage of the Bishops who may justly fear by this and by the next Argument that the taking away of their Votes is but a kind of forerunner to the abolishing of their Jurisdiction Arg. VIII Because the whole Number of them is interessed to maintain the Jurisdiction of Bishops which hath been found so grievous to the three Kingdoms that Scotland hath utterly abolished it and Multitudes in England and Ireland have Petitioned against it Answ. 1. This Argument is not against the Vote of Bishops but against Episcopacy it self which must be removed because Scotland hath done so and some in England and Ireland would have it so and yet peradventure ten times as great a Number as these desire the contrary 2. There will be found Peers enough in the Upper-House to reform any thing that is amiss in the Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction although the twenty six Prelates should be so wicked as to oppose it as there were found Peers enough in that Noble House to curb the Court of Rome and the Revenues of the Cardinals under Edw. 3 d to meet with the Provisors under Ric. 2 d to put all the Clergy into a Praemunire under Hen. 8 and to Reform the Religion 1º Elizabeth notwithstanding the Opposition of all the Bishops Arg. IX Because the Bishops being Lords of Parliament it setteth too great a distance betwe●● them and the rest of their Brethren in the Ministry which occasioneth pride in them discontent in others and disquiet in the Church Answ. This is an Argument from Moral Philosophy which affords no Demonstrations All are not proud that vote in Parliament nor discontented that are not so imployed This Argument fights only against their title of being Lords which is not the Question at this time FINIS