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A20388 The ansvveres of some brethren of the ministerie to the replyes of the ministers and professours of divinitie in Aberdeene, concerning the late convenant. Henderson, Alexander, 1583?-1646.; Dickson, David, 1583?-1663. 1638 (1638) STC 68.5; ESTC S100400 28,428 46

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out all Superstition and no wayes to bee contrarie to the Lawes of this Kingdome but to bee compyled and approved for the universall use and edification of all his Majesties Subjects 4. It is so farre from disallowing the sayde Booke that it putteth us in feare that it shall bee prest in a faire and legall way and therefore notwithstanding the Proclamation the necessitie of Covenanting which containeth nothing contrarie to the Acts of Parliament nor to the duetie of good Subjects but is the largest Testimonie of our Fidelitie to GOD and loyaltie to our King whatsoever it maye seemeto you to import doeth yet continue that his Majestie maye bee pleased to grant the full satisfaction of our reasonable Petitions and that our Religion and Liberties may bee preserved for afterwards Who-so-ever professe themselves to be perfectly satisfied with the Proclamation doe proclame in the eares of all the Kingdome that they are better pleased with the Service book and anons than with the Religion as it hath beene prosessed in this Land since the Reformation To the fourth VVEE were assured that your Demand proceeded from a Mistaking therefore according to our knowledge did ingenuously for your satisfaction expound unto you the mind of the Subscribers but find now that we have laboured in vain at your hands from which we have receiued this Reply unto which concerning the first Missinterpretation wee answere 1. That altho we do neither use threatnings nor obtrude our Interpretation upon you as bearing any obligatorie power yet pardon us that wee match you not and put you not in the Ballance with the greatest part of the Kingdome both Ministers and others in whose name we recōmended this Interpretation unto you by all faire meanes and force of Reason and in so doing wee are so farre from the breach of our solemne Uow and Promise that wee esteeme this to bee no small proofe of that godlynesse and righteousnesse wherein wee are bound by our Covenant to walke 2. The authoritative judgment of our Reformers and Predecessors is evidenced not onlie by the Confession of Fayth ratified in Parliament but also by the bookes of Discipline Acts of generall Assembllies and their owne Writs wherein if yee will ye may find warant for this Interpretation and in respect whereof it is publick ratione medij besides these midses of Scripture of Antiquitie and of the Consent of the reformed Kirks which are named for midses by you Concerning the 2 Missconstruction it is no marvell that Prejudices and pre-conceived opinions poss●…ssing the mynd make men to fall upon interpretations of their own but in the South parts of the Kingdome where many learned and judicious men both Pastors Professors were assembled at the first subscribing thereof wee remember of none that did fall into that Misstake And the two sorts of Novations such as are alreadie introduced and such as are supplicated against are so punctually distinguished that there is no place left to Ambiguitie but o●… the contrarie the Novations which wee promise to forbeare for a time onlie can not bee supposed in the following words to bee abjured for ever as Popish novations 2. Vpon a new examination of the words yee perceive that the Articles of Pearth and Episcopacie are condemned as erronious corruptions because we promise to labour to recover the former puritie libertie of the Gospel unto which our Answere is that it appeareth that you will have all the Covenanters against their intention and whether they will or not to disallow and condemne the Articles of Pearth and Episcopall Governament lest they bee tryed in a generall Assembly But it is knowne to manie hundreths that the words were purposely conceived for satisfaction of such as were of your judgement that we might all joyne in one heart a●…d Couenant for establishi●…g Religion and opposing errours And for your Argume●…t whether the Articles of Perth and Episcopacie bee against the puritie and liberty of the Gospell or not which is not determined by these words of the Covenant But it cannot be denyed first That if in a free Assembly they bee found to bee ●…gainst the puritie and libertie of the Gospell ●…hey ought to bee abolished in the meane time it beeing left free by the words of the Covenant to all who will to stand to the defence of their lawfulnesse Secondly how can it be denyed that manie corruptions contrarie to the puritie and libertie of the Gospell were they never so innocent in themselves have accompanyed these Novations such as the superstitious observing of Dayes ●…eriation and cessation from worke on those Dayes Feasting guysing c. manie grosse abuses have entred in the Sacrament upon kneeling before the elements and upon the lawlesse usurpation of Prelates in respect whereof even they who allow Pearth Articles and Episcopacie may sweare to recover the puritie of the Gospell And thirdly who can bee so great a stranger at home as to denye that manie corruptions of Poperie and Arminianisme have entred in the Kirke and have beene vented and defended in Schools and pulpits by reason whereof wee are bound everie one of us according to the measure of our light to labour for recovery of our former Puritie And therfore if you had cast your eyes upon the condition of this 〈◊〉 Kirk as yee have pryed narrowlie into the Expressions of the Covenant yee might have spared both your owne labour and ours and not laboured to skarre both your selves and others with this shadow In your Argument ad hominem you should have considered that whatsoever bee our judgment as wee are particular persons yet at this time wee were to bee taken as Commissionars from the whole companio of Subscribers who about this point are of different judgments and if some of your owne judgment had either come alone in our place or had beene joyned in Commission with us we had anticipate your Objection and this yee have beene forced to see and so yourselves in propnunding your Objection have answered your owne Syllogisme in making us to say that yee may sweare and subscribe seeing ye thinke not these thinges to bee abjured in that Oath made Ann●… 15●…1 neyther was it for you to inquire in our private Opini●… nor necessarie for us to make it knowne but to have conceived of our mindes according to our Commission and the will of those that sent us Your Arguments neede to bee no impediments unto your swearing of the Covenant For upon your grounds you would not have sworne the Short Confession any time by past yea yee can not sweare the Confession of anie Kirke nay not the Articles of the Cr●…d because of the diverse Interpretations of the Article of Christs descen●… into Hell or swearing them in Scotland and England yee behoved to sweare them in diverse senses There be some words of the Lord's prayer as Give us this day our daylie bread and of the x Commands as the wordes of the 4 Command which are diversly
examined in an Assembly 2. Ye call some of those novations necessarie but without warrant of that Assembly which concluded them as indifferent all the rest ye will have to bee laudable thus by progresse of time things formerly indifferent become necessarie and what was but lawfull before and had much adoe to gaine that reputation is now become laudable where yee plainely discover the cause of your unwillingnesse to subscribe not so much to bee the commandement of Authoritie as the necessitie and excellencie of the things commanded Till yee therfore change this opinion ye cannot promise forbearance neither upon our dealing nor at the commandement of Authoritie altho forbearance should serve for the peace of the Kirk Kingdome To the eight FIrst Wee remit the Reader to our Answere and your Reply which we hope shall be fouud no Confutation 2. We observe That ye have not answered our argument for our swearing the Defence of the King and his Authoritie with a specification which yee call a limitation wherin we have followed the Confession of Faith ratified in Parliament the King's Confession and Act of Parliament upon which yeewill not doe well to fasten so foule imputations and put so hard Constructions as yee doe upon us for inserting in our Covenant what they have said before us If our specification be right why censure you it If it bee wrong why fasten you not your censures upon the Fountaine from which it is derived The Loyaltie of our intentions to maintaine the Kings person and honour is fully expressed that it hath given content to those who are nearest his Majestie and wee should wrong not onely them but also the Covenant and the Subscribers thereof if wee should make new Declarations to others of greater distance who wrong both the King and them-selves in craving them 3. To doe with a doubting Conscience is a grievous sinne but to make and multiplie doubtes for hindering a good worke and to oppose against a shyning Light is no lesse grievous Ye spake before of a limitation now ye have added Precislie as if the naming of our Duetie were the excluding of all other Dueties We all by our Oath of Alleadgeance by his Majesties Lawes and by other Obligations acknowledge that wee owe many other dueties to the King which were verie impertinent to expresse in this Covenant 4. What kynd of Conference yee meane whether by word or writ we know not but while we were amongst you yee know what notice yee were pleased to to take of us and wee have no delight to resent it To the nynth FIrst Wee are ashamed to draw the Rug-saw of Contention to and fro in a continuall Reciprocation concerning the serbearance of Pearth Articles and therefore forbearing to doe so any more wee referre the Reader to our former Answeres 2. We doe not affirme that the only Reason why Kn●…eling was appointed was because all memorie of Superstition was past There be indeed other Reasons expressed in the Act but such as the authors therof may bee ashamed of as both perverting the Text. Psal. 93 as making Kneeling to bee necessarie in everie part of GOD's Worship and as giving matter to many Treatise●… proving kneeling before the Elements to be idolatrie according to the Act unto which wee now referre you but this wee say which is manifest by the Act it selfe that in the case of present Superstition or feare thereof all other Reasons had not beene forcible to enforce knee●…ing then nor can have force to continue kneeling now This feare hath beene great this yeere by past throughout the kingdome by reason of the manie Superstitions of the Service booke which it may bee yee no more acknowledge than yee doe the superstitious disposition of the people because they are not that which they were at the time of Reformation 3. Wee would heare what Malice it self can say against the words of the Protestation That it shall bee lawfull uno us to defend Religion and the King●… A●…ritie in defence thereof and everie one of 〈◊〉 of anot●… 〈◊〉 that cause of maintaining Religion and the Kings forsaid Authoritie and to appoynt and hold Meetings to that end lyke as our Proceedings have beene in themselves most necessarie and orderly meanes agreeable to the Lawes and p●…ise of this Kirk and Kingdome to be commended as Rea●… Dueties of faythfull Christians loyall Subjects and sensible members of the bodie of the Kirke and Kingdome and tend to no other ende but to the preservation of Religion and maintenance of the King's Authoritie To your Interrogator which yee seeme to propone rather to be snares to us than for satisfaction to your selves we an swere once for all in generall That if this were the opportunitie to that Disputation wee shall bee found to deny nothing unto Authoritie of that which the worde of GOD the Law of Nature and Nations the Acts of Parliament chiefe Royalists sound Divines and loyall Subj●…s give unto Kinges and Princes GOD'S Vi●… 〈◊〉 earth and that not from respect to our selves ●…t to ●…e Ordinance of GOD by whom Kings reign●… But seeing so oft so instanly you presse us in this point yet force vs mutually to propone to you such Questi●… 〈◊〉 it may bee yee will have no great delight to answere●… We desire to understand of you Whether yee allow or disallow the Service booke and booke of Canons If ye disallow them as an innovation of Religion why have ye not either ioyned in Supplication with the rest of the Kingdome or made a Supplication of your owne against them or some other way testified your dislyke Next Whether it bee pertinent for men of your Place and Qualitie to move Questions of State touching the Power of Princes and liberties of Subjects after his Majesties Commissioner wise States-men have received satisfaction of the Subjects for suppressing such motions as yours 3. Whether doe the Subscribers more tender his Majesties Honour by supposing his constancie in profession of Religion and equitable disposition in ministration of Iustice or yee who suppose hee shall fall upon his religious and loyall Subjects with force of Armes contrarie to both 4. Whether the joyning of the whole Kingdome in the subscription of the Covenant or the intertaining division by your wrytting preaching and threatning of your people otherwise willing to joyne bee a more readie Meane to settle the present Co●…tions of the Kirke and Kingdome 5. If the Prelates and their Followers labouring to introduce Popery in the Land make a Faction by themselves or as the Guisians in France did abuse his Majesties name in execution of the bloodie Decrees of Trent which GOD forbid wee aske Whether in such a Case the lawfull defence of the bodie of the Kingdome against such a Faction bee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the M●…rate and a taking A●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…g If ye ●…firme it to be is not this to take p●…t with a ●…tion seeking their owne endes against the Common-wealth of ●…he