of Master Goodwyns and Master Nye not so pleasant as true The Clergie had at first the golden ball of government amongst themselves and it is not much mended any where but in that Church where the people have their Interests as well as others they are the Clergie properly a notion which the Ministers got only to themselves till of late The interest of the people in Christs Kingdom is not only an interest of complyancy and obedience and submission but of consultation of debating counselling prophesying voting c. and let us stand fast in that liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free Presbytery it self is founded on Principles of separation which yet they condemn for Schism in other Churches nay is the greatest separation VVHat is a Presbytery over Congregations or a Congregation but a Church gathered out of a Church Nay is not that the only Church and the remainder of people made but an accessory or something of another kind or rather the Nation or Kingdom which is only subject to this power supream And though Presbytery be but a Church-gathering and founded on a Principle of seperation yet do they not disapprove and condemn seperation and semi or halfe-seperation and Church-gathering for Schism c When their own power is a Schism respectively to the Parishes that are distinct and whatever distinction is formed to make them appear as part of their Congregations yet is it indeed so Is not their whole power defended to be entirely essentially dispensatively in the Presbytery called by themselves the Church and by the very authority of one whom I name with reverence to his learning and moderation Master Herle So as I wonder why there should be such envyings raylings accusings dissentings betwixt us that are beleevers though of severall waies when as each is principled founded administred upon the same ground and way of Schism seperation and Church-gathering nay the Presbytery hath more Schism and separation in it then the rest by how much it is constituted from the people and Brethren and Acts in its ministration apart too viz. over the people rather then with them None to be forced under Christs Kingdom as in the Kingdoms of the world IN a Spirituall Government the ignorance of people which some would have for expedition that they may practically know it is no Scripture way of knowing in practicall godlinesse things must be known before practically known and practice is to begin from faith and faith from knowledge else the obedience can be but blind mixt and Popish Indeed in things civill or morall practice may bring in knowledge habits may be acquired and gotten by Acts a man may grow temperate by practising temperance and civilly obedient by practising civill obedience but it is not so in spirituals there habits go before acts spirituall infusions before practices Indeed the Laws of States and Kingdoms and Civill Policy teach men best by ruling them practically but it is not so in the Church men are not to be forced into Christs Kingdom as into the Kingdoms of the world the Kings of the Nations exercise their Dominion it shall not be so among you The power of a formall Râ—formation in a Government makes it not Christs Government A Government though not purely Christs may be made up of such Scripture and prudentiall materials as may much reform the outward man even as a meer prudentiall Civill-Government may do if severely executed The Romans by how much they excelled other Nations in Laws so much the more they excelled them in a people reformed moralized and civilized in many Civill States meerly from their wholsome Policy and administration excellent and precious flowers spring up many morall vertues as prudence temperance obedience meeknesse love justice fortitude Yet all this makes not a Government to be Christs but only that which is meerly the Discipline of Christ and Policie of Christ Prelacie in its Primitive time did reforme the beast like a lamb which compelled the Nations to Worship and made even fire to come down from Heaven or was religious in the eyes of men and did miracles yet was no true nor heavenly Power neither There are certain parts and degrees of Reformation common and communicable with the Government of Christ and other Governments but then there is a forme and Image of Christ in it which no others have and some certain spirituall operations and workings which exceed the power of all other Governments and this makes the difference and puts on the essentiall true and individuall forme upon it so as in choyce of Governments they are not to be chosen by some Summer fruit in the outward man but by the Word and Spirit The visible Church or Communion is the Image of the invisible or mysticall THe invisible or mysticall Church is made up of pure living stones all is spirituall and yet all not spirituall in the like kind nor degree Jesus Christ the corner stone is both God and man and some of his differ in glory as one Star differs from another and as it is here in this spirituall invisible glorious building so it is in the outward visible Communion below or building here which is the Image of that above The Temple here is acording to the Patern there and as that is of true reall essentially spirituall living stones so the Church here is to consist of such as visibly formally and outwardly appeare so and therefore called Saints and golden Candlesticks and holy Natio c. And though all the materials in this building are to be proportionable and pure to make up a representative of the Church above yet all is not of one square and measure and polishing some are greater and some lesse some Babes and children in Christ some smoaking Flax and bruised Reeds And as this Church bears the Image of the heavenly so the mateâ—â—â—ll one bore the Image of this there was pâ—ne stones gold and Cedar so as there is room in the Church now for any small stone or the least peece of timber if it be but lively or squared if Cedar or Firrâ— How Christ is a King of the Nations and of the Church and how an Head CHrist is a King to the Nations and to the Church nor doth he rule the Nations as the Church nor the Church as the Nations he rules ministerially in his Church and Monarchically in the Nations he rules with a goldâ—n Scepter in his Church with an iron Rod in the Nations Nor doth Christ rule as the Kings of the Nations who finding people rude barbarous uncivill subdue them into obedience and civility but so doth not Christ in his Church that we know on the dispenâ—ation of his Word not of the Government first â—ubdues And it is true Christ is an Head but not an Head to every body he will have a body proportionable to his Head both here and hereafter in earth as well as in heaven he is a pure holy glorious Head in his Gospel-dispensation and
in the spirit under the Gospell we worship now in spirit and in truth not by representations as under the Law And therefore it is that the Gospell-Ordinances are so few so plaine and poore to the eye that the soule may not be taken up with the signe but with things spirituall And we may observe that as little as can be of outward elements are made use on as in Baptisme meere water and in the Supper Wine and Bread and the first Ordinance is called the Baptisme of the Spirit not of water and the Bread and Wine The Communion of the Body and of the Bloud of Christ not Bread and Wine And faith the Apostle If we have known Christ after the flesh henceforth know we have no more And further What is it that is said of grace comming in by the eye This is the way the Papists let in Christ having made the eye rather the Organ for conversion then the eare Now Faith commeth by hearing and therefore all their Idolatrous Pictures their Imagery and theabicall representations are all for the eye and bringing in Christ by Obtick or sense and making conversion to be by perspective and working only an historicall faith And further What is it that is said of working grace by the eye As if the carnall part could advantage conversion by any power there but such a power as is meerly carnall and naturall What can all these signes of the Lord Iesus doe upon a blinde soul as all unregenerate men are What are the glorious colours to him that hath no eyes to see The signes of bread and wine are given for working symbolically or by signe upon a soule or understanding spiritually enlightened before and having a discerning and therefore it is that the Apostle saith He that eats and drinks unworthily eats and drinks damnation to himself not discerning the Lords Body which if the Supper had been a converting Ordinance the Apostle would not have charged the unworthy from receiving but rather have encouraged them in their receiving that of unworthy they might have been made worthy But you see he cals for a right discerning of the Lords Body first which cannot be a calling of the unregenerate or unconverted to a partaking because they have no right discerning of the Body of Christ but by the sense first converted Vindication Fol. 44. 1. That the most humbling melting soul-changing sin-purging mollifying meditations of all others are from Christs death and passion c. and therefore c. 2. Afflictions and corporall punishments are converting Ordinances therefore c. 3. That unworthy participating is a meanes of spirituall hardening and so by the rule of contraries a worthy receiving an instrument of conversion 4. All the ends of it are as appeares so spirituall see his Scriptures that how is it possible it should not be Gods intention and Christs Ordination to be a converting Ordination 5. Conversion is a turning of the whole man unto love obedience of God in Christ from the love of the world c. and what engine more powerfull for the forecited respects or spirituall ends 6. Experience in every Christians conscience whose preparations and approaches to this Sacrament were the first effectuall means of their conversion yea they had not been converted if debarred from it Inference We may inferre upon the first That there are soul-melting meditations in a soul unconverted or unmelted and that there are soul-changing meditations in a soul unchanged which the Scriptures never speak on such waies of conversion are no waies in the Word that we read on but hidden paths for the spirit of mans devising Secondly that because afflictions are therefore Sacraments are that is because one thing is therefore another thing is This is but the Old Argument But God may sanctifie any thing at his own pleasure to make way for Conversion and yet that no instituted Ordinance for conversion neither Because some have been converted when afflicted when sick when poor therefore will you first go afflict them and make them sick and poore taking all they have from them that you may convert them and so make them standing Ordinances Thirdly Is a rule of contraries a rule in the Scriptures or in Logick But it is said Worthy receiving is an instrument of Conversion that is Conversion is a meanes of Conversion who can receive worthily till in Christ till converted 4. But all the ends of it are spirituall and how is it possible but then it should convert This How is it possible is like that of Why should it not both of one strength to prove it for though the ends be never so spirituall yet if there be no warrant for any such institution as conversion all the reasons extrinsecall or strange consequences as all such are cannot institute an Ordinance none but God and Christ and therefore the Popish Arguments built upon such forreigne and externall though rationall consequences are not immediate nor intrinsecall enough to warrant any thing of their will-worship 5. But â—â— is a powerfull engine Yea but only for what it is instituted and oâ—dained nor is it lesse excellent because it converts not because every thing is beautifull in its order and place and law of creation 6 But the experiences of Chrictians witnesse who had never been converted if not at the Sacrament But what Christians are these What kind of experiences are these I question the truth of all such conversion who have only such experience as this because that such experience crosses the Word and way of the Spirit and those are no right experiences which are not Scripture-experiences But some had not been converted if debarred from it This is a strange assertion against that of the Word The spirit bloweth where and when it listeâ—â— and some are called at one houre of the day some at another and how is it cleare that the Sacrament converted such or not some other act of the Word at that time or about it Shew me that Christian among so many that can evidence his act of conversion meerely barely singly immediately from the act of communicating and then there is something proved to justifie an experience of Conversion at such a time but still not to justifie the Sacrament an Ordinance-Conversion and so to be used Vindication Fol. 46. Is any Master or Parent so unnaturall and sottish to deny his children or servant wholesome meat to feed their bodies And shall any Minister be so irrationall or inconsiderate in denying the spirituall food Inference Whence we may inferre That the Vindication takes all unconverted persons by this comparison to be alive and spiritually quickned or else it were as he sayes unnaturall sottish irrationall to give them food And if they be unconverted as he pleads for then who is so unnaturall sottish irrational or inconsiderate as to give them any Men onely hold forth food to the living and not to the dead Vindication Fol. 46. Physitians had an errour to deny drink
flying away to a Book of Mr Gataker one of the Assembly intituled A Mistake c. and the Book of the namelesse Author called The Plea both writ against me And a very short ANSWER in a word to a Book by another namelesse Author called An After-reckoning with Master Saltmarsh and to Master Edwards his Second Part called Gangrena directed to me Wherein many things of the Spirit are discovered Of Faith and Repentance c. Of the Presbytery And some things are hinted to the undeceiving of people in their present Ministers By John Saltmarsh Preacher of the Gospell Acts 7. 26. Sirs ye are brethren why do ye wrong one to another LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black Spread-Eagle at the West end of PAULS 1646. Reader IN this Answer to Master Gataker I conceive thou hast a taste of the true Notion both of the sweetnesse and glory of the Gospell Imprimatur May 26. 1646. IOHN BACHILER To the Right Honourable the Lord Maior Aldermen and the Common-Councell of the City of LONDON Right Honourable MAny who call themselves Ministers and Prophets of God accuse us of Heresie and Schism before ye But I hope ye will take notice they are but men as we are and of like passions with us neither Apostles nor Prophets of the first Baptism or gifts of the Spirit Yet if the Priests and Elders or any Oratour as Tertullus accuse Paul to Festus or Agrippa be cannot but answer for himselfe I have but few words to speak to ye Noble Citizens That ye would in that Spirit which is of God judge the Doctrines of Men and single them from Traditions Customes Councels Synods Interests Ye are bid to try the spirits whether they be of God or no. Try whether it be according to God for some Ministers and those not Apostles to call others Hereticks who beleeve not as they beleeve What will become then of the strong and weak Christian of the children fathers and young men Trye whether they ought to preach to ye to suppresse all but themselves since they are not infallible but may erre and where is the Remedy then if they erre Who shall judge the Iudges Try whether this make for unity of spirit to allow no more fellowship nor brotherhood then in Horme and practice And what will they have ye do if Formes should alter For States may change England hath done so Try whether this make for the glory of Christians to persecute or banish as they would have ye all but themselves May they not as well tell ye that God hath made England only for men of the Presbytery or one opinion to live in and worship in And where find they that Trye whether some by their daily Invectives from Presse and Pulpit against Independent's and others bring not in the Popish Designe in another Forme to divide the godly party both Presbyterian and Independent and so to ruine all Try if all such Doctrine as they commonly preach and write to ye resolve not it selfe most into their own interests profits place power And what doth the Scripture and Histories tell ye of that And now I have done praying for ye That ye may be still a free City and not disputed by the miscelany of Logick and Divinity of some into bondage That ye may be still populous and not your streets growing with grasse through any un neighbourly Principle of Persecution which must needs lose ye many and much resort from this famous City under the name of Hereticks not letting such live beside them That ye may be a peaceable City and not raised up and dashed by any breath of men against the other and greater part of your selves the Parliament England hath long enough broken it selfe against its own walls let it now be our strength to sit still and to stand still and see salvation And since the Lord hath let the most of the successe of the Presbytery which is so much desired come thorow the hands of those and that Army whom they have told ye over often were Hereticks let this be but taken notice on by ye what God hath told ye in the successe of that Army and I trust ye will never regard the Messengers by whose hands the Presbytery in a kind came by beating them out of doores Thus rests he Who would rejoyce in your Peace Prosperity and GOSPELL-unity JOHN SALTMARSH REASONS FOR Vnity Peace Love THe Nations and Kingdoms of the world shall bring their glory to Christ and be at peace with all his according to the Prophesies isai 11 6 7 8. Revel 21. 26. Isai 49. 23. And how happy is that Nation or Kingdom which shall be first in this truth and have rather a peace of Prophesie than Policie a peace of God than man How happy shall this Kingdom be to fulfill any of this Prophesie of peace to one another and to the Saints That all Kingdoms and Nations and Princes and People prospered according to their love to Christ and his Pharaoh for Ioseph Ahasuerus for Mordecai Artaxerxes for Nehemiah and the people of the Iews and those Nations have been ever nations of bondage and tyranny to themselves which became so first to the Saints That Ierusalem hath been ever a burdensome stone and a cup of trembling to all that oppressed her and the stone cut out of the Mountaine without hands too mighty for all the Mountaines of the world And the bloud of the Saints where-ever spilled and where ever found in literall or mysticall Babylon never left crying till that very place had bloud given them to drink for in her was found the bloud of the Prophets That the true Peace indeed is more spirituall and comprehensive then men usually think it and takes in severall natures nations people languages of every tongue and kindred so severall spirits consciences judgements opinions not a Peace only of such or such an Opinion not a Peace only of such or such a Society of such or such a Body not a Peace of Presbytery only nor Independency only nor Anabaptisme only but a Peace of All so far as that all or many may be one which is that unity of spirit in the bond of peace That true Peace is an enemy to all selfish interest and selfish preservation and selfish unity or selfish peace because that when Uinity Peace Preservation gathers up from that common interest Peace and Unity to which they are appointed by the law of Creation and Institution and becomes only their own and not anothers their own peace their own unity their own preservation they breaking that law of the Spirit and Communion of their first Creation each perishes in their single private and unwarrantable way of saving themselves And the eye saith unto the hand I have no need of thee and the head to the foot I have no need of you That there is no such impossibility of being one under divers Opinions as we are made beleeve no more then there was for
will not heare me speak But you would have the best assurance from tryall but so far I say not as you say is that the best Spirituall assurance that is from our own Spirits in part or from Gods alone from our own reasoning or his speaking Can a Spouse argue better the love of her friend from his Tokens and Bracelets or from his owne word and Letter and Seale One of the three that beare witnesse on Earth is the Spirit and in whom after ye believe ye were sealed with that Spirit of promise Can any Inference or Consequence drawn from Faith or Love or Repentance or Obedience in us so assure us as the breathing of Christ himself sealing assuring perswading convincing satisfying I will hear what God the Lord will say for he will speak peace to his Servants A Saint had rather hear that voice then all its own Inferences and Arguments which though they bring something to perswade yet they perswade not so answerably till the voyce speake from that excellent glory To your eighth That I clog men with conditions of receiving as well as you of repenting c. I answer I preach not Receiving as a condition as you do Repenting I Preach Christ the Power and Life and Spirit that both stands and knocks and yet opens the doore to himselfe I Preach not Receiving as a gift or condition given or begun for Christ but Christ working all in the Soul and the Soul working up to Christ by a power from himselfe And if you would Preach Repentance and Obedience as no other preceding or previous dispositions we should agree better in the Pulpit then we do in the Presse To your ninth That the sum of my Divinity is That men may be saved whither they Repent or no or beleeve or no. I answer Should I say to you The sum of your Divinity is this That Faith and Repentance and Obedience are helps with Christ and conditions with Christ to mans Salvation and that Salvation in not free but conditionall the Covenant of Grace is as it were a Covenant of Workes Should I do well in this to upbraib you and those of your way Say not then that I thinke men may be saved that never repent nor believe Why do you thus set up and counterfeit opinions and then engrave our Names upon them Could not I piece up your Book so if I would be unfaithfull as make ye appeare as great an Hereticke as any whom you thus fancy because I preach not Repentance or Faith as you do because I make all these as gifts from Gods love in Christ not as gifts to procure us God or his love or Christ because I make all these the fruits of the Spirit given to such whom Christ hath suffered for to such whom God hath chosen in him because I Preach Faith and Repentance and Obedience in that full Revelation in which they are left as in the New Testament and not in that scaâ—tling of Doctrine as they are meerly and barely revealed in the History of the Gospel or Acts of the Apostles onely where the Doctrine is not so much revealed as the Practise and the Story in Summaries because we Preach thus therefore we are all Antinomians Hereticks men not worthy to live Brethren must ye forbid us to Preach because we follow not with you because we Preach not the Law as ye do nor Faith as ye do nor Repentance as ye do therefore do we not Preach them at all We Preach them all as we are perswaded the New Testament and Spirit will warrant us and as we may make Christ to be the power of all and fulnesse of all as we may exalt him whom God hath exalted at his own right hand And we wish that ye and all that heare us were both almost and altogether as we are except in reproaches CONCLVSION FRom the 29 Page to the last all your Replyes amount not to any thing of substance but of quarrelsome and humorous exceptions and I shall I hope redeem my time better then in making a businesse of things that will neither edify the Writer nor the Reader There are some things you might had you pleased raised up into some Spirituall discourse as that of Works and Signs for assurance c. But you say of your self how becoming such a one as you I leave that you were like an Old Steed which neighs and prances but is past service so as I must take this of your age and infirmity as a fuller Answer or Supplement to what you faile in against me There are two or three things more observable then the rest 1. That you tax me for saying That the markes in Johns Epistles and James are delivered rather as marks for others then our selves to know us by and I affirme it againe not as you say excluding that other of our selves but as I said rather markes for others though for both in their degrees and kindes of manifestation So in James 2. 24. where he saith By Workes a man is Justified not by Faith So in Vers 18. 21. All which set forth Works a signe to others rather then our selves So in 1 John 3. 14. Hereby know we we are passed from death to life because we love the Brethren compared with Ver. 17. 18. shewes That it is a love working abroad in manifestation to the Brethren and yet I exclude not any evidence which the fruits of the Spirit carry in them as in my Book which yet you alleadge to that purpose after you have been quarrelling so long with it pulling my Treatise in pieces to make your selfe worke and then binde it up againe after your owne fashion For your Story of your Lady and your fallacy That she might as well conclude her selfe damned because she was a sinner as one that Christ would save because she was a sinner And durst you thus sport with a poor wounded spirit that perhaps could see little but sin in her selfe to conclude upen Know you not that Christ came to call sinners to save sinners And durst you make use of your Logick to cast such a mist upon the promises to sinners Suppose one should aske you how you gather up your assurance now you are an old man how would you account to us Would you say such a mâ—asure of Faith so much obedience so much love to the Brethren so much Zeale Prayer Repentance and all of unquestionable evidence But if we should go further and question you concerning your failings when you writ in the behalfe of Cards and Dice of the Common-Prayer-Book if we should aske ye of your luxuriarcy in quotations in your Books and Sermons whether all be out of pure zeale no selfishnesse no vain-glory Whether all your Love was without bitternesse to your Brethren of a diverse judgement whom you call Antinomian c. Whether you preached and obeyed all out of love to Iesus Christ and not seeking your own things not making a gaine of