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A54076 Usury stated being a reply to Mr. Jelinger's Usurer cast whereto are adjoyned, some animadversions on Mr. Bolton's and Mr. Capel's discourses, concerning the same subject / written by T.P. T. P. 1679 (1679) Wing P122; ESTC R39078 124,005 274

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And Grotius himself says De Jure c. l. 2. c. 10. §. 2. Concerning things not extant it hath pleased Mankind that if thou art made the richer by my Goods which I have not in possession thou art so far obliged as thou art made richer for how much the more thou hast gained by my Goods so much thou hast and I have so much the less c. What is here and elsewhere brought by Mr. J. against Usury both from the Fathers and Heathens respects the practice of it as it was in their times which I believe was bad enough being attended with Rapine rigid Exactions over-reaching c. Thus saith Grotius thus Rivet Idem p. 235. Rivet de Decalogo What is cited out of Aristotle Cicero Plutarch c. against Vsury respects not so much what is intrinsecal as what is accidental and commonly attends it The like may be said of the expressions of the Fathers which are very bitter against Vsury for they had respect to that Vsury which prevailed too much in all Ages against Equity Honesty Charity and Faithfulness as Chrysostome upon Matthew said there was nothing more cruel nothing more shameful than the Vsury of his time but it follows not that they understood it of all Vsury c. As for the sayings of the Heathens that are so rigid I find in Seneca a general Rule for the right understanding of such like passages Some things saith he are commanded beyond measure De benef l. 8. c. 22. that they may return to their proper and right measure as when we say a good turn ought not to be remembred by the doer we mean this it ought not to be published or boasted of c. 23. Again As often as there is little confidence in those things thou requirest more must be injoyned than is sufficient that what is sufficient may be performed In this every Hyperbole exceeds that we may come to the truth by a lye Mr. J. 2. It is a most dangerous thing Reply Not so where no Rule of Charity Equity Honesty or Fidelity is broken as there is not in the thing debated whiles kept within due bounds and limits Saith famous Rivet In Decal p. 288. As far as any Contract of Loan doth contradict Charity and hurteth our Brother we judge it to be forbidden by the Law but not so where Equity is observed and our Brother not wronged by the Loan there it is neither repugnant to Charity nor to the Law whose end is Charity What is by Mr. J. produced out of Neh. 5. may be hereafter considered only this I shall say Whereas they had promised to leave Usury and restore I wish you said he to promise so too A good Rule and necessary to be practised where 't is rightly applyed But I perceive we must be content with this expedient till he be at leisure to communicate that better one in the point of Restitution by him intended to make the work more facil and easy Epist Ded and to keep from dispondency Mr. J. 3. It is a most infamous thing so as that whereas others in writings underwrite themselves either Husbandmen c. from their Callings the Vsurer is ashamed to call himself an Vsurer Reply This and it may be the rest of his description concerns only such as make a Trade of Usury and have no other Calling or Imployment to lay out their time thoughts on Such were they whom Austin called scabbed through Idleness and Chrysostome likens to Asses Let Rivet answer him But such as lend to the wealthier p. 283. if they lend only out of an idle or lazy humor because they will not employ themselves in a Calling nor exercise any honest Function they are unexcusable because they propose to themselves an evil end and contrary to the Divine Will but such as out of an inability for trading or necessiry as Widows Orphans Aged Students and the like who are otherwise employed and taken up with other Functions if they enter such Compacts they offend not for in that they themselves cannot Trade whatsoever substance they are owners of would be soon consumed if they live upon the Stock and take thence for the supply of all their needs and not put it out with such as on just accounts might gain thereby and call them in to be partakers of the gain Mr. J. 4. A most monstrously increasing thing it is Reply Some of these Monsters he mentions which we are nothing concerned in such as the taking weekly 20 pounds for an hundred or more yet he that taketh the least mite for a thousand pounds incurs as severe a censure from him as adjudged to the same condemnation Mr. J. 5. A most cruel thing it is for it is always biting both day and night Winter and Summer and makes no difference between Lords days and Week days Reply Such kind of reasoning minds me of a certain Commander mentioned by Cicero who having made a truce for certain days was wont to ravage by night De Off. l. 1. p. 15. pretending that Nights were not included in the Truce Is it not pity our Author had been by to have prompted the Parliament when they were making the Act concerning Usury that borrowers might have been discharged from paying Use at least for the Nights and Sabbath days throughout the year But doth not the Adventurers gain go on at the same rate and when the Farmer makes up his Rent for a year do not nights and Lords days come into account and alike fill up the time with the rest but this reasoning as the foregoing is not his own he freely borrows and never tells the World to whom he is beholding The next Chapter begins with an Inquiry Chap. 4. How Vsury differs from other contracts and dealings as Inter-Vsury Interest Shiploan c. which indeed are but Usury under other names or Notions invented to palliate mens Consciences that they have no hand in Usury when they really practice it not that I assert either of them unlawful but that Usury regulated as its requisite the other should be too has the same plea from reason that either of them hath Seneca Ita sublato altè supercilio in eadem quae caeteri descenditis mutatis rerum nominibus Thus some men can look alost and yet stoop to the same practices they condemn in others only changing the names thereof Review the three Definitions of Usury mention'd by him Whatsoever saith Ambrose is more than the principal is Vsury saith the Council of Agatha where more is required than was given And all that a man takes over and above the mony lent which he makes general Take either of these three Definitions without supplement and postils and examine Inter-usury Interest and Ship-loan by them and they will appear to be Usury each of these being somewhat above the Principal c. Concerning those Exactors mentioned Neh. 5. I have a desire to know seeing they