of the Things of God being the Foundation of all Faith Love Obedience or any sanctified Affection that Ordinance which most contributes to that must necessarily most contribute to Edification It is therefore the Preaching in most Parish Churches which People look at as less tending to Edification than what they hear elsewhere being less fitted to their Understandings and Memories less awakening and Operative upon their Affections if any of them assign any thing in the Publick Worship or the Government of the Church as giving them Cause to withdraw their Presence from the former or Concurrence with the latter it is ordinarily of another Nature not for further Edification meerly Whereas Sir our Author saith p. 24. That he doth not understand what it is to be better saved or more saved We cannot help that the Apostle 1 Cor. 3. 15. Will teach him what he pretends to be so unintelligible His next Councel is p. 24. Let Edification be placed in the substantial Parts of Religion Sir We have our Religion yet to seek if Faith and Holiness be not the substantial Parts of it There is none that denieth that a right Faith and an honest Conversation is taught in our Church The Question is Whether they be ordinarily taught in all Parish Churches in the best Manner for Peoples Understanding either or Improvement in either They are certainly taught in the best manner with Reference to Edification when they are taught so plainly as all the Hearers may understand them and what is said is so proved and justified from Holy Writ that their Faith whose Object 't is not possible should be any Thing but a Divine Revelation can be founded not in the Wisdom of Mens fine Words or fallible Ratiocinations but in the Power of God and in the Wisdom of the Divine Will revealed in his Word If the Author Sir means that these Things are taught in our Thirty Nine Articles and in some particular Churches all that he can infer is That it is not lawful for us to divide our selves from the Doctrine of Faith in those Articles nor from such Places where we dwell where those Doctrines are so Preached if ever we were united to them If he means that in all Parish Churches Faith and Holiness are so pressed and preached he will find it denied by many and impossible by himself to be proved I see Sir nothing more in all the Book you sent me unless Words To draw up all in short Sir If all the Ministers and Christians on the Earth not apostatized to Idolatry be but one Church her Doctrine and Worship one and the same how is it possible that any should separate from it who adhereth to the Doctrine of it and lives in the performance of the same Acts of Worship that God is honoured by in every Part of it For it is certain that all such Persons as are Members of it neither do nor ever did Worship God in the same Place nor by the same Numerical Acts nor are under the same external Form of Church-Government and Order So as there is no pretence of Separation from the Catholick Visible Church I know no other Church but the particular Church of which an individual Person is a Member Let us consider that as signifying the whole Body of Christians wherein we live upon which Account we sometimes speak of a National Church how can a Person more separate from that than from the Catholick Church Sir who adhereth to the Doctrine of Faith owned in it and serveth God in any Part or corner of it by the same specifical Acts of Worship that whole Body of People serveth God by and in For neither do all the People in any Nation meet in the same Place to Worship God nor do the Ministers use the same Words in all their Prayers or Sermons nor do People use the same Habits and Postures in their Acts of Worship Do they mean the Particular Congregation of which Men are Members It is impossible a Man should separate from a Church in that Sense who never was a Member of it and as impossible that any should sinfully withdraw Communion from a Church in that lowest Notion that cannot without Sin have Communion with it in that or those Acts in which he withdraweth his Communion Neither is he to be called a Separatist that only withdraweth his Communion from it as to an human Tradition and is yet ready to have Communion with it in every Divine Institution It is most certain that Christ did so as to the Jews and also kept a Communion distinct from them though he did not wholly cast off Communion with them John Baptist kept a Communion with the Jewish Church yet sufficiently reflected on the Corruptions of it and neither restrained his Preaching nor Baptizing to the Synagogues or Temple This same thing so clamour'd on under the Notion of the black Sin of Schism and Separation if it signifieth any thing more than a withdrawing frome some Rites and Ceremonies of no Divine Institution no Necessity the Imposition of which and a Compliance with which some Persons judge sinful I must profefs my self not in the least Degree to understand it and if it signifies no more which of the Ten Commandments it is opposed to I cannot understand nor how to excuse him from it who did the like yet was Holy Undefiled Separate from Sinners But Sir as to what is said in this Discourse That it is sinful for a Man agreeing in all the Points of Faith in all the substantial Parts and Acts of Worship with all Christians in the World and more especially with all those in the Nation or in the Parish wherein he Lives not ordinarily to join in those Numerical Acts of Worship which the rest of the Parishioners or many of them join in because the Preaching and Praying or other Administrations of Holy Things in that Place is not such as he by Experience findeth most conducive to the Profit of his Soul either to convey to him the Knowledge of the Things of God or to affect his Heart with Love to and Zeal for God It is of all Things that which I least understand And Sir I hope it is the last Thing any shall beat into my Head If any hath a Design upon me Sir let him attempt if he can to prove that I have Soul or if any yet that Soul or Thing called so is but the Crâ—sis of my Body no distinct Being from it but shall with it Die and Putrifie and never with it rise more to hear of what I have done in the Flesh. Or let him attempt if he can to perswade me that I am not with this Soul to endeavour to my utmost to Glorifie God But I hope he shall never so long as I believe that there is a God or that I have an Immortal Being within me with which I ought to glorifie this God the Eternal Concern of which I am above all Things to mind and in Order to it
A SHORT EXAMINATION OF A Discourse CONCERNING EDIFICATION By Dr. HASCARD Where it is inquired how well the Author of the said Discourse hath proved That it is not lawful for a Man to go from his Parish Church to Meetings that he might better Edifie In a Letter to a Friend 2 Cor. 12. 9. But we do all Things Dearly Beloved for your Edifying LONDON Printed And are to be Sold by A. Baldwin near the Oxford-Arms Inn in Warwick-Lane 1700. Advertisement THere is lately Published A Letter of Advice to the Churches of the Nonconformists in the English Nation Endeavouring their Satisfaction in that Point Who are the True Church of England Short Animadversions upon Dr. Calamy 's Discourse in the Conformists Cases against Dissenters concerning a scrupulous Conscience An Answer to Dr. Scot's Cases against Dissenters concerning Forms of Prayer And the Fallacy of the Story of Commin plainly Discovered A SHORT EXAMINATION OF A Discourse CONCERNING EDIFICATION Honoured Sir I Have received your exceeding Civil Letter with the Discourse that you favoured me to send along with it which was doubly acceptable to me First As a New Book few of which come to us living at such a Distance from your Metropolis Secondly With respect to the Argument of it A Discourse concerning Edification must be acceptable to every one who knoweth it to be his Duty 2 Pet. 3. 18. To grow in Grace and in the Knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Which is in English Edification You desire my Thoughts concerning it which I shall freely give you Whether it is lawful for any Man to forsake the Communion of the Church of England and to go to the seperate Meetings because he can better Edifie there This he saith is Unlawful and to make it plain he saith Two Things must be first considered 1. What sort of Person this is that asketh this Question 2. What he meaneth by Edification As to the First He supposeth the Person not to Judge any Thing unlawful in the Communion This Sir will make his Question to concern very few not one of an Hundred amongst Dissenters By Edification he means he saith An Improvement of his spiritual Condition in the full Latitude of it These are Words large enough comprehending Knowledge in the Understanding Faith and Obedience respecting the Will and Warmth or Zeal in the Affections we agree that Edification indeed is nothing else The Apostle calls us Gods Temple his Building and Edification signifies nothing else but a building up in Christ in Faith and Love in Zeal and Hâ—â—iness and is the same Thing with what St. John calls the Souls prospering 1 John 3. 1. An increasing with the Increase of God Col. 2. 19. Sir I cannot understand how it should be unlawful for a Man to do any Thing for this End for his Soul can never prosper nor increase nor grow by any sinful Act without doubt I do conceive therefore the Author hath mistaken his Question which should have been of what is lawful to do not for better edifying but upon pretence of it for there is no doubt but any Thing is lawful for better edifying God can be by nothing more glorified nor can any Thing more tend to the saving of our own Souls which are the two great Ends of a Christian. But Sir to State this one Question he hath begged two others 1. That Dissenters Meetings are Separate Meetings Suppose Sir People meet together in the Church of St. Andrews in Holborn and another Congregation meet at St. Giles in the Fields a Third in Cheapside and that none of these People ever go to any but their own Church are they therefore Separate Meetings when they all hear the same Scriptures Read Sing the same Psalms hear the same Doctrine though in other Words and Worship God by the same Acts of Worship Prayer Praise Preaching and Hearing Administring and Receiving the same Sacraments how are they Separate Meetings Did ever any call the Dutch and French Churches meeting oft-times in the Parish of Broad-street Separate Meetings because they go not to hear the Minister in Broadstreet 2. He also assumes That they forsake the Communion of the Church of England how doth that appear many of them oft-times come to the Parish Churches and join with the Congregation in Prayer Praise Hearing Receiving the Sacrament those that do not yet holding the same Faith and performing the same Specifical though not the same Numerical Acts of Worship that the Parochial Churches do do no more forsake the Communion of the Church of England than the Parishioners of St. Andrews Holborn forsake the Communion of the Church of England because they never are at Bow-Church or that at Ludgate But Sir we will for once admit that the Meetings the People go to are Separate Meetings 2. That they wholly for sake the Church of England yet if they do it because they can edisie there better I do think it not lawful only but necessary also for that Man doth not believe there is a God or doth not know he hath a Soul or doth not know his Chief End is to Glorifie God and that his Souls Interest is his most valuable Interest that doth not believe he may Separate from any particular Church that he may better edifie elsewhere I must confess Sir when I read the Question as it is stated by the Author I was quite startled at his Negative Determination of it and very desirous to see the Arguments by which he could prove it But when I came to consider them p. 2. I was satisfied for his first Reason is Because there is no better Edification to be had in the Separate Meetings than in the Communion of the Church of England This he proveth 1. Because Her Articles of Faith are those which our Dissenters themselves allow Upon this he enlargeth Page 3 4. 2. Because she laies a necessity upon a good Life p. 4 5. 3. Because she is fitly constituted to excite Devotion p. 7 8. 4. Because she hath an excellent Order and Discipline p. 8 9. But Sir all this will not do nor will prove more than half a Reason But Page 10. He adds This Constitution is used and managed in the best way by the Pastors of our Church to edifie the Souls of Men. This he proves 1. Because the Pastors of our Church have strict Commands laid upon them so to do p. 11. 2. That these commands are obeyed by the Pastors of our Church and they do all things in it to Edification p. 11 12. Before I come to speak to this distinctly c. we must consider What Communion it is with the Church of England which is required and for the withdrawing of which Dissenters are stigmatized with the unintelligible Names of Schismaticks and Separatists Is it for their not agreeing with the Doctrines of Faith expressed in the Thirty Nine Articles Or because the Doctrine of our Church presseth a Necessity of an Holy Life in Order to Salvation
Sir I have been young and now am old I never yet knew a faithful and profitable Preacher want an Auditory I have indeed known many a learned and honest Man want the Company of his own Parishioners but his Church hath been filled up with others I have also known many a learned and good Man who wanting Elocution or an happy Method or being weak in preaching Parts hath wanted an Auditory but let a Man be Conformist or Nonconformist if he were a Man sound in Matters of Doctrine holy in his Life and but of tolerable Preaching Parts and Abilities I never knew him want an Auditory I dare say no such Person this Day wants none especially that is chosen by the People either by a first Election or an after Submission There ever was and while this World stands there will ever be difference in the Ministers Auditories 'till God makes all Ministers equal in Gifts and Abilities Neither do I much understand the Discouragement of a small Flock supposing the Minister to have a Livelihood the fewer Souls a Minister hath under his Charge the lesser his Account will be at the Day of Judgment To whom many Souls are entrusted of him will many be required But saith our Author what if our Pastor be idle or remiss in his Duty or corrupt in the Faith and teacheth Error instead of sound Doctrine and we have no means of Edification What must we do Must we take in Poison instead of Food or not be fed at all A very considerable Question to which might have been added What if he be of an unholy Life who builds with one Hand and destroyeth with the other To whom People are ready to say when he reproveth one Physitian heal thy self How can we think you believe as you speak when we see you do not live as you speak But to the Questions as formed by himself Sir the Author replies To be sure you must not run into Schismatical Separation It is more tolerable to go to other Congregations of our Communion that may be irregular but it is not schismatical What doth he mean by a schismatical Separation Shall the following Words expound him It is more tolerable to go to other Churches of our Communion What is the meaning of that Are not all Congregations where the same Doctrine is preached and the same Worship I mean Acts of Worship performed of the same Communion Doth the Difference in the Ministers Habits and Words in Prayer make a different Communion But is it lawful to go to other Parish-Churches No saith our Author that is irregular and if it were not so surely Men should not be made such deep Sufferers for that venial Sin But he thanks God We have a Government which upon a just and modest Complaint will quicken the Lazy and Negligent correct the heretical Pastor and restore to you true Edification I have not a Word Sir to say against this Judge as you see what is true or false in these Things is Matter of Demonstration and therefore there need no Words about it The Author Sir concludes his Discourse with the Recommendation of two things to us 1. That if we fancy any Defects in our Government we should not hence conclude that we have not sufficient Edification in the Church to save our Souls I know Sir you cannot but observe 1. How the Author hath forgot his Question which he p. 1. stated concerning better Edification Sir I do not think any sober Dissenter will deny that Men and Women may be saved in the Church of England I know many of them do think that many will be saved in the Popish Communion where they have no better Light to make use of than they have in Spain and Italy and live up to their Light doth it therefore follow that they must not withdraw Communion from Rome I do not here compare the Church of England with the Romish Synagogue I only bring this as an Instance that a Sufficiency of the Means of Grace to bring Men to Heaven is not enough for pious Souls to look after if it were there needed no Exhortations to grow in Grace How comes the Question to be altered here p. 22. Or this to be used as an Argument not to seek for further Edifying that in the Church of England there is sufficient Edification Means of Edification I presume he means to save Souls have Christians no more to do doth this Author think than to look just to get to Heaven Surely their Business is in the first place to glorifie God and that can be no otherwise than by bringing forth much Fruit John 15. 8. Herein saith our Saviour is my Father glorified if you bear much Fruit. There are some whose Work shall be burnt and they shall suffer loss but yet they themselves shall be saved yet so as by Fire 2 Cor. 3. 15. Every good Christian will think himself concerned so to live so to walk as he may most glorifie God and be saved yet not so as by Fire He goeth on If upon a nice search and critical enquiry they think they have found some little Flaws and Defects improper Phrases doubtful Sentences and some small Omissions in the Matter of our Prayers and Discipline yet let them not conclude that these can weigh in the Ballance against the black Sin of Schism and Separation and all its sad Consequents which is excused by nothing else but Terms of Communion plainly sinful Sir We must give them leave to load Practices they do not like hard Names when they are not able to convince the Authors of them of any Sin I could wish that we could hear more of the black Sins of Drunkenness and Whoredom and prophane Cursing and Swearing but they can never Name Schism and Separations but they must represent that as a black Sin yet they will never tell us in any intelligible Dialect what this same Sin unto Death is Wherein it lies Which of the Ten Commandments it opposeth c Let them first tell us What the Church is and open how we ever were united to it and then shew as plainly how we are separated from it and we will cry Peccavimus if we cannot shew them that the Terms upon which we must have had Communion with it were such as we had just Reason to believe sinful But Sir when Dissenters plead Separation lawful for better Edification it is not so much with respect to the Worship and Government as to the Preaching most ordinary in it not that there are not excellent Preachers that do Conform to the Church of England but with all there are others many of which also may be very Learned and good Men but yet not have the Gift of Preaching Edification is much more concerned in the Doctrine and Preaching which Men ordinarily hear and attend than it is in the Form of a Churches Government and in the Prayers used there though they also influence it in a much lower Degree doth for a Knowledge