Children as in Baptisme they do to continue therein that such Congregations are true Churches notwithstanding sundry defects and dangerous corruptions found in them wherein we follow the judgement of Calvin Instit 4. 1. 9. 10. c. Wâ—itaker de notis â—cclesiae cap. 17. and many other Divines of chiefe note nor can we judge or speake harshly of the Wombes that bare us nor of the paps which gave us suck Thirdly But inasmuch as grievous corruptions of latter yeares have greatly increased in some of those Assemblies as we heare both in Doctrine in Worship and in the Government thereof besides those that were when some of us were there and in former Yeares Therefore we are not without feare and with griefe we speake it what things may come unto at length If Corruptions should still increase and grow ' they might come in time if the Lord be not more mercifull unto such an height as unto obstinacy in evill and to wilifull rejection of Reformation and the meanes thereof and then you know it might be just with God to cast off such utterly out of the account and number of his Churches so as never to walke among them any more which we heartily pray the Father of mercies to prevent that such a day may never be But if Ephesus repent not of her declinings the Lord hath threatned that he will come unto her quickly and remove her Candlesticke that is he will un-Church them Rev. 2. 4 5. and Lukewarme Laodicea shall be spewed out of his Mouth Rev. 3. 16. And therefore it behoves such of them to Repent and Reform themselves betime lest the Lord deale with them as he haâ—h done with others And it much concernes your selves in hearty love and faithfullnesse we speake iâ— and so we desire you wouâ—d accept of it it very much concernes you deare Brethren whil'st you live amongst them to beare faithfull witnesse against the corruptions that are remaining in any of them in respect of their Constitution Worship Dâ—scipline and Ministerie lâ—st by any sinnefull silence or slacknesse of yours that should blow the Trumpet and stand in the gap the breach should be made wider and the iniquity increase and lest men should flatter themselves in their sinnes under the Name and Title of the true Church as the Jewes thought themselves secure because of the Temple of the Lord Jer. 7. 4. 4. Because you would know not onelie whether we count those Assemblies to bâ— Churches but what wee would doe for joining in Gods Worship in them if occasion served thereunto We Answer that if we were in England we should willingly joine in some parts of Gods true Worship and namely in hearing the Word where it is truely Preached in sundry Assemblies there Yea though we doe not know them to bee Churches or knew not what they were whether true Churches or no For some Worship as Praier and Preaching and Hearing the Word is not peculiar to Church Assemblies but may be performed in other meetings Mars-hill at Athens was no Church nor the Prison at Philippi and yet the Word of GOD was Preached and heard lawfully wâ—th good successe in thâ—se places Act. 17. and Act. 16. How much more might it bee lawfull to heare the wâ—rd in many Parish assemblies in England in when generâ—lly there is a professing of Christ and in many of them Mâ—n Soulâ—s that are sincere and upright hearted Christians as any are this day upon the face of the Earth and mâ—ny Congregations indeed that are the true Churches of Jesus Christ See Mr. Robinsons Treatise of the lawfullnesse of hearing the Ministers in the Church of ENGLAND 5. But why we durst not partake in their prescript Lyturgie and such Ordinances though true as are administred therein We gave you account the last Yeare in Answer to the first and second Position As alâ—o in an Answer to a Discourse of that Subject Penned by our Reverend Brother Mr. Ball. What we have done in our ignorance whil'st we lived amongst you wee have seene cause rather to bewaile it in our selves here then to it in others there Our Answer to this Question is this 1. That we never yet knew any to come from England in such a manner as you do here describe â— the things you mention may be taken conjunctim and not severally viz to be Men famously known to be godly and to bring sufficient Testimoniall thereof from others that are so knowne and from the Congregation it selfe whereof they were Members We say we never yet knew any to come to us from thence in such a manner but one or other of the things here mentioned are wanting and generally this is wanting in all of them that they bring no Testimoniall from the Congregation it selfe And therefore no marvell if they have not beene admitted further then before hath been expressed in Answer to Quest 1. to Church Ordinances with us before they have joyned to one or other of our Churches for though some that come over bee famously knowne to our selves to be Godly or bring sufficient Testimoniall with them from private Christians yet neither is our knowledge of them nor Testimonal from pâ—ivate Christians sufficient to give us Church-power over them which wee had need to have if we must dispence the Ordinances of Church communion to them though it be sufficient to procure all due Reverent respect and hearty love to them in the Lord. 2. If the things mentioned were all to be found yet it wâ—uâ—d be also requisite if they would partake of Church Ordinances with us and yet not joyne to any of our Churches that wâ—â— should know the Congregation it selfe from which they come not onely to be a true Church but also what manner of one it is For such persons cannot communicate with us in Church Ordinances in their owne right because they joine not as Members in any of our Churches but it must be in right of the Congregation in England to which they doe belong and by virtue of the communion of Churches and so our admitting of them to communion with us in such a manner and upon such terms is not only an Act of Communion with the persons themselves but also with the Congregation of which they are Now as we cannot of Faith admit men to Church Ordinances which we believe belong only to Church Members unles we know the Congregation of which they are Members to be a true Church So somtimes a Congregation may be so corrupt that though it doe remain a true Church yet for the corruption and impurities of it it may be lawfull and necessary to withdraw communion from the same for which Dr. Ames gives sundry grounds and Reasons Cas Cons lib. c. 12. Q. 3. Resp 2. or at least to protest against some grosse corruptions therein In regard whereof we had need to have some knowledge and information what that Congregation is with whom now we have Church communion when in heir right wee admit mâ—n into
particular Congregation 1 Cor. 5 4 14. 23. 11. 17. 20. and having power of judgeing her own Members as all visible Churches have yet had no power of Judgeing any but such as were within that particular Congregation as all them they had power to judge whether they were believers in Christ or no. Mr. Bâ—iâ—â— as we said before is very large and cleare in proving this Position that the Churches instituted by Christ and the Apostles were only such as might meet in one Congregation ordinarily and answers many objections to the contrary Diâ—ces tryal Q. 1. 4. For the Question it selfe we hold that every believer if possibly he can is alwayes bound to joyne himselfe as a Member to some particular Congregation or other and yet not because else he is a Heathen and Publican or out of possibilitie of salvation as this Question suggests but upon other grounds 1. Because of the Commandment of God Cant. 1. 8. Math. 6. 10. 33. 2. Because willingly not to doe this is a secret disparagement to the wisdome of God that hath ordained Churches with giving power and privilegdes therunto Mat. 18. 17. 1 Cor. 5. 4. and promises of his gracions presence to be with them and amongst them Mat. 18. 20. Rev. 2. 1. Exod. 20. 24. Now to what end were all these if believers should live and noâ— joyne themselves to some Church These priviledges and promises would in such case be all in vain and the mercy of God offered therin unthankfully neglected Thirdly voluntarily abstaining from joyning to the Church is noted and condemned as a sinne Heb. 10. 25. and a signe of fearefull unbelievers Act. 5. 13. of the rest durst no man joyne unto them Fourthly good men in Scripture have been forward in practise this way Isay 2. 2 3. Zach. 8. 23. Act. 2. 41 42. and 9. 26. and have mourned with much bitternesse when they have been deprived of Liberty so to doe Isay 56. 3. and Ps 42. and 63. and 84. Fiftly this joyning is a part of that Order and orderly walking which is required of believers Col. 2. 5. 1 Cor. 14. 40. Sixtly If Believers doe neglect this joyning it is not onely a wrong to themselves but also a great unkindnesse to God for if one believer may doe this why not another and if two why not three foure c. and if all believers should doe thus God should have no visible Churches upon Earth unles he will acknowledge the Assemblies to be of unbelievers Churches foras stones in the Mountains are not an house untill they be joyned together though they be digged up out of the Quarry and squared hewn and hereby are made fit to be joyned together and so to become an house so believers are not a Church till they be joyned in holy Covenant in some Congregation though the worke of Grace and Faith in their soules have made them fit and meete to be a Church of God which is the House of the living God or as the humane soule and body are not a man unlesse they be united so Christian or believers are not a visible Church without visible union into some particular Congregation Mr. Perkins having said that forth of the militant Church there are no meanes of salvation no preaching of Gods word no invocation of Gods Name no Sacraments and therefore no Salvation concludes with these words For this cause every man must be admonished evermore to joyn himselfe to some particular Church being a sound Member of the Catholick Church Expos of Creed in the Article of the Church and Doctor Ames gives 6. Reasons why every Christian should ioyne himselfe to some particular Church or other Cas Consâ— L. 4. c. 24. Q. 1. and in another place he hath these words Illi igitur qui occasionâ—â— habent adjungendi sese Ecclesiae â—am negligunt gravissimè peccant non tantum in Deum ratione Institutionis sed etiam in suas proprias animas ratione benedictionis adjunctae etsi obstinatè persistant in ipsa incuâ—ia quicquid alias profitentur vix possunt haberi pro fidelibus Regnum Dei verè quaerentibus Medul Theol. l. 1. c. 32. Sect. 28. First whereas this 13th Question speakes of private and illiterate persons into a Church Body combined wee looke at this as an incongruous expression if not a contradiction For a company so combined as to make a Church are not fitly called private though they be illiterate in respect of humane learning in as much as a Church or a Church-body especially in times and places of peace and liberty is a publike Congregation and society and the acts of Communion which they have among themselves such as is the election and deposing of Ministers whereof the Question makes mention are not private acts but publike or people-like Neither are literate or learned men therefore publike because they are indued with humane learning unlesse withall they be called to publike office or imployment in Church or Common-wealth and therefore if illiterate be an exegesis of private we conceive that exegesis is not good Secondly whereas this Question asketh Whether it be lawfull and convenient that such a company should themselvs ordinarily examine elect ordain and depose their owne Ministers if ordinarily be as much as frequently we answer three things First that if one Church doe frequently come to such actions that is to take in and put out the same men this is not without suspition of much levity and rashnesse in the people or unfaithfulnesse or unworthy walking in the Ministers or both and therefore ordinarâ—ly that is frequent taking in and putting out againe in this manner is as much as may be to be avoided Secondly when such things doe often and frequently fall out it is doubtlesse a Judgement of God upon such a people to have so many changes in their Ministers as was that of which it was said three shepheards have I cut off in one moneth Zach. 11. 8. that People should be so oft as sheep having no Shepheard for the transgression of a land many are the Princes thereof Pro. 28. 2. So in like sort for the transgressions of a Church many are the Ministers thereof we meane when they have many Ministers by the comming in and going out of the same men or the removing of some and the taking in of others in their roome for otherwise it is a blessing of God when a Church is furnished with variety of Ministers at the same time Acts 13. 1. 21. 18. Phil. 1. 1. Thirdly yet this word ordinarily doth seeme to imply that in your judgement sometimes this may be lawfull and convenient to be done Now upon the same ground on which it may be done sometimes upon the same it may be done at other times if there be just occasion Thirdly for the assistance of the Ministers of other Churches of which this Question maketh mention if this be onely by way of counsell or advice we know nothing unlawfull or
primum Ecclesiae populus potestatem habens elegendi dignum Ministrum habet etiam teste Cypriano potestatem indignum recusandi deinde qui Judices sunt Censoresque morum in Ecclesia ex officio tenentur redargnere peccantem Ministrum si duobus aut tribus testibus fide dignis coram Ecclesia Dei convictus fuerit Tertiò iidem cum consensu suffragiis plebis deponent Ministrum vel ad ltempus vel in universum vel excommunicabunt tandem juxta quaitatem peccati vel defectus illius p. 429. Doctor Ames saith Potestas hujus disciplinae viz. of Excommunication quoad jus ipsum pertinet ad Ecclesiam illam in communi cujus membrum est peccator ad illos enim pertinet ejicere ad quos pertinet primò admittere corporis totius interest ex aequo membrorum conservatio vel amputatio cum Ecclesiâ— idcirco consensu eoque Magistratu non permittente tantum sed approbante constituente est executioni mandanda Medul Theol. l. 1. c. 37. Sect. 26. Lastly Master Parker observing a distinction betweene power and the dispencing of power that the one is in the Church and the other in the Presbyters hath these words Neque tamen dispensatio omnis omneque exercitum est penes rectores solos sed juxta temperamentum formae partim Aristocratice partim Democraticae de mandaâ—ae Rectoribus suis Ecclesiâ— que ipsa per se obire satis commodè nequit retinente vero dispensationem illam illudque exercitium quod ipsi convenit pertinet ad ejus lignitatem authoritatem libertatem à Christo donatam Posit Eccles l. 3. c. 7. And elsewhere he saith Imo vero est publica clavium tractatio quam plebes Christiana in unum coacta sine ullo acrilegio administrat Polit. Eccles l. 3 c. 2 p. 8. These testimonies we thought good to produce in this Question lest any should thinke that to give any Church power of Government to the people were some singular opinion of ours swerving from the truth and disallowed by Orthodox Writers of the Reformed Churches and no doubt but besides these here cited the same is taught by â—thers also whom now we spare to alledge intending onely â—hese few for a taste instead of many 2. And therefore when this Question demandeth wheâ—her we give the exercise of all Church power of government to the whole Congregation or to the Presbyters thereof alone Our Answer is neither thus nor so neither all to â—he people excluding the Presbytery nor all to the Presbytery excluding the People For this were to make the government of the Church either meerly Democraticall or meerly Aristocraticall neither of which we believe it ought to be 3. Whereas this Question demandeth to know what acts of Government the Presbyters may doe more then any other may doe and to have those particular acts mentioned this seemeth to us to be a very large demand for who is able to mention all the particular acts of government which any one Governour may performe in his time especially if he continue long in his place But if your meaning in this Point be not of the Individualls but of the species or kinds yet even there also it is much to require the particular mentioning of all yet to give you a taste take these The calling of Assemblies and dismissing of the same againe The ordinary preaching of the Word which is done by way of Office and being the peoples mouth unto God in Prayer The dispensing of Baptisme and the Lords Supper The permitting of any to speak in an orderly way and againe enjoining silence The putting of matters to Vote and pronouncing of sentence in the censure of offendors or receiving in of Penitents after their fall and blessing of the people in the name of the Lord These are Acts of Church Government which the Presbyters may doe according to the Word and another member may not do without breach of Order and presuming above his place 4. It is also here demanded what the Presbyters may do without the particular consent of the rest To which wee answer that when they doe what the Lord Christ whose Stewards they are by his word requires of them in their places this should not be without the consent of the rest â—or the rest of the Church ought to consent thereto Christs Sheep ought to heare his voice Iohn 10. 27. and to obey them that speak unto them in his name Heb. 13. 17. And if any man should in such case willfully dissent the Church ought to deale with such an one for not consenting to the will and waies of Christ or else they shall all be guilty of the sinfull dissent of such an one So that this Passage if it be meant of Presbyters doing their duty without the consent of the people goes upon a supposall in respect of the people of that which never ought to be neither are wee to suppose but that there may be rule when the Elders and Brethren doe not dissent nor are divided one from another The multitude of them that believed in the first Christian Church at Ierusalem were of one heart and of one soule A l. 4. 32. Yet none needs to doubt but there was rule and Government amongst them when yet their agreement was such that the Apostles and Flders did nothing without the full consent of the rest It is a miserable mistake either to thinke that in the Church of Christ the Elders and Brethren must needs dissent one from another or if they all consent that then there can be no ruling but against the peoples minde They were none of the best Shepheards to their flocks unto whom the Lord saith with force and rigour have you ruled them Ezech. 34. 4. As for doing any thing in their places which the word of Christ the Lord and Master of the Church commandeth not nor alloweth such things they neither ought to do nor ought the Church to consent unto them if they should for that were to make themselves partakers of their Rulers sinnes and so to bring Judgement upon them all as when the Priests did wickedly beare rule and the people loved to have it so Ieremiah 5. 31. 5. Lastly this Question demandeth how and over whom in those Acts of Government which are done by the Elders more then by other Members or without the consent of the rest the Presbyters doe rule in propriety of speaking more then the rest of the Congregation wherein are sundry particulars 1. How they rule Whereunto wee answer that neither the Elders nor the people doe rule with Lordly and Princely rule and Soveraigne authority and power for that is proper to Christ over his Church who is the onely Lord 1 Cor. 12. 5. And King and Lawgiver that is able to save and to destroy Isa 33. 23. Psal 2. Luk. 19. 27. Jam. 4. 12. The Elders are forbidden to be Lords over Gods heritage 1 Pet. 5. 3. Or to exercise
the lesser Now ordination is lesse then election and depends upon it as a necessary Antecedent by divine Institution by vertue of which it is justly administred being indeed nothing else but the admission of a person lawfully elected into his Office or a putting of him into possession thereof whereunto he had right before by election as was said before in answer to the precedent Question 3. If a Church have Ministers or Elders before then this ordination is to be performed by the Elders of the Church and in their Assemblie 1 Tim. 4. 14. as also many other acts are to be performed by them 4. This Ordination thus performed by the Elders for the Church may fitly be called the Act of the whole Church as it is the whole man that seeth that heareth that speaketh when these acts are instrumentally performed by the eye the eare and the tongue in which sense Master Parker saith Ecclesia per alios docet baptisaâ—que Polit. Eccles l. 3. c. 7. p. 26. 5. But when a Church hath no Officers but the first Officers themselves are to be ordained then this Ordination by the Rite of imposing of hands may be performed for the Church by the most prime grave and able men from among themselves as the Church shall depute hereunto as the children of Israel did lay their hands upon the Levites Numb 8. 10. Now all the Congregation could not impose all their hands upon them together all their hands could not possibly reach them together and therefore it must needs be that some of the Congregation in the name of the whole body performed this Rite And as this Scripture sheweth that the people may in some cases lay their hands upon Church Officers for the Levites were such upon whom the children of Israel did lay their hands so let it be considered whether these reasons doe not further make it manifest 1. Men that are in no Office may elect therefore they may ordaine because ordination is nothing else but the execution of Election 2. If it were not so then one of these would follow either that the Officers must minister without any Ordination at all or else by vertue of some former Ordination received in some other Church or else they must be ordained by some other Minister or Ministers of some other Church that were ordained afore them and so the Ministery to be by succession But the first of these is against the Scripture 1 Tim. 4. 14. Heb. 6. 2. And the second were to establish the Popish opinion of the indeleble Character imprinted as they imagine in their Sacrament of holy Orders Whereas for ought we can discerne If when they are called to Office in any Church they have need of a new Election notwithstanding their former election into another Church then they have by the same ground need of a new Ordination for Ordination depends upon Election If their former Election be ceased their former Ordination is ceased also and they can no more minister by vertue of a former Ordination unto another Church then by vertue of a former Election And for the third we doe not understand what authority ordinary Officers can have to ordaine Ministers to such a Church of which themselves are not so much as Members Besides at some times namely at the first Reformation after the times of Popery there were no others to be had but from the Pope and his Bishops and Priests Now it were a pittifull case if the Sheep must have no Shepherd but such as are appointed to them by the wolves That is if Gods people might not have Ministers but onely from the popish Bishops This were to say either that the Ministers of Antichrist must or may ordaine Ministers to the Church of Christ or else that the popish Bishops are true Ministers of Christ And if Protestants thinke it necessary that their first Ministers should be ordained by the popish Bishops it is no marvell if the Papists do thereupon believe that their Church is the true Church and their Bishops true Ministers Such a scandall is it unto them to maintaine this personall succession of the Ministery But God doth so much abhorre Antichrist that hee would not have his people to seek to him nor his Priests to ordaine Christs Ministers as he would not take of Babilon a stone for a Corner nor a stone for a foundation Ier. 51. 26. 3. It is thus in civill Corporations and Cities the Major Bayliffe or other chiefe Officer elect is at his entrance and inauguration to receive at the hands of his Predecessors the Sword or Keyes of the City or to have some other solemne Ceremonie by him performed unto him yet if either there be no former as at the first or that the former be dead or upon necessity absent when his Successor entreth then is this Ceremony and worke performed by some other the fittest Instrument neither need that City borrow any Officer of another City neither could he entermeddle there without usurpation though both the Corporations have the same Charter under the same King And so it is in this spirituall Corporation or City the Church of God 4. That this point may seeme the lesse strange to you we pray you consider with us a little further the nature of this Ordination and then wee will adde the Testimonies of some eminent Protestant Writers in this case that you may see this is not any singular opinion of ours For the former some indeed have so highly advanced this Ordination that they have preferred it farre above preaching the Word ministring the Sacraments and Prayer making it and the power of Excommunication the two incommunicable Prerogatives of a Bishop above an ordinary Minister yet the Scripture teacheth no such thing but rather the contrary for when the Apostles were sent out by Christ there was no mention of Ordination in that Commission of theirs but only of teaching preaching baptising Mat. 28. 19 20. Mark 16. 15 16. If Ordination of Ministers had bin such a speciall worke there would belike have bin some mention of it in their Commission And certaine it is the Apostles counted preaching the Word their principall worke and after it Prayer and the ministring of the Sacraments Act. 6. 4. 1 Cor. 1. 17. If ordaining of Ministers had bin in their account so prime a worke it may seem Paul would rather have tarried in Creete to have ordained Elders there then have gone himselfe about preaching seaving Titus for the other Tit. 1 5. By all which it appeares that ordaining of Ministers is not such an eminent work as that it is to be preferred above preaching the Word and ministring the Sacraments and therefore to be performed by them that are superiours unto ordinary Ministers preaching and ministring the Sacraments being left as inferiour workes unto Ministers of an inferiour ranke as they would have it that stand for the superiority of Docesan Bishops neither is it equall unto those other workes afore
mentioned that onely he that doth those may performe this other also as some others thinke but being nothing else in the true nature and use of it but the execution and accomplishment and confirmation of election it may bee performed by the people of God that yet have no Officers even as Election may upon which it doth depend 5. Lastly let these sayings of some Protestant Writers of singular note either for holinesse or learning or both be well considered of Master Perkins saith Succession of Doctrine alone is sufficient for this Rule must bee remembred that the power of the Keyes that is of order and jurisdiction is tyed by God and annexed in the New Testament to Doctrine If in Turkey or America or elsewhere the Gospel should be received by the counsell and perswasion of private persons they need not send into Europe for consecrated Ministers but they have power to choose their owne Ministers from within themselves because where God gives the Word he gives the power also upon Gal. 1. 11. Doctor Willet saith Whereas Bellarmine objecteth that as in the old Law the Priesthood went by carnall generation and lineall descent from Aaron so in the New it must bee derived by succession from the Apostles we answere first that our Saviour Christ and his Apostles could shew no lineall descent from Aaron neither had their ordination from his Successors and yet were the true Pastors of the Church And a little after This we say further that both before Christ there were true Pastors and Prophets which were not ordained by the Priests of Aaron and since Christ that received not their ordination successively from the Apostles First in the old Law when the ordinary Priesthood was corrupted God raised up Prophets from other Tribes that received not from the Priests their ordination and allowance such an one was Amos who was among Heardsmen and was made a Prophet as he was gathering wilde black-berries After the same manner in the corrupt times of the Gospel the Lord hath raised up faithfull Ministers to his Church that could shew no succession from the degenerate Clergy And a little after If Paul were made an Apostle without the ordination of the lawfull Apostles much more may the Lord raise up new Pastors to his Church without ordination from the usurpers of the Apostles Synops Papism contr 2. Q. 3. of Succession Error 20. p. 81. Morâ—â—y his words are full and plaine to the same purpose viz Although some of our men in such a corrupt state of the Church as we have seene in our time without waiting for calling or allowance of them who under the title of Pastors oppressed the Lords Flock did at first preach without this formall calling and afterward were chosen and called to the holy Ministey by the Churches which they had taught yet this ought to seeme no more strange then if in a free common-wealth the people without waiting either for the consent or for the voices of those that tyrannize over them should according to the Lawes make choice of good and wise Magistrates such happily as God would serve his turne of for their deliverance and for the publike restitution And hereof wee have examples first in the Acts where wee read that Philip who was but a Deacon preacheth in Samaria without the calling of the Apostles yea without their privity who for all that gave their allowance to his worke In Frumentius carried upon another occasion into the Indies a meere Lay-man who yet there preacheth the Gospel and a good while after is there made Bishop In those of whom Origen speaketh that shall come by chance into a City where never any Christian was borne shall there begin to teach and labour to instruct the people in the Faith whom the People shall afterward make their Pastors and Bishops and besides in all the Scriptures there is not one place that bindeth the Ministery of the Gospel to a certaine succession but contrariwise the Scripture sheweth that God would send two speciall witnesses to prophesie against Antichrist Of the Church chap. 11. p. 371. Doctor Whitaker answering Bellarmine that would prove Protestants to have no Church because their Ministers had no Ordination by Bishops saith That as sometimes Bishops were chosen by the Clergy and sometimes by the People so the same may be said of Ordination viz. that it was sometimes by the Clergy and sometimes by the People and then addeth Quod si vocationem corum Episcoporum legitimam fuisse concedat Bellarminus De ordinatione minus laboramus Qui enim habent authoritatem vocandi iidem etiam authoritatem ordinandi habent si legitima ordinatio non possit impetrari nam ordinatio sequitur vocationem qui vocatur iâ— quasi in sui muneris possessionem mittitur de Eccles Q. 5. cap. 6 p. 510. Finally Doctor Ames doth also witnesse the same in many places of his workes for a taste take these few sayings of his in this case viz. Ad totam Ecclesiam semper pertinet ordinatio quoad jus vim virtutem illam quam habet in Ministro Ecclesiae constituendo sicut celebratio matrimonii vim aut virtutem omnem acceptam refert legitimo consensui conjugum Ecclesie statu ministerio ordine deficiente collapso vel corrupto à plebe etiam actus iste ordinationis quatenus necessarius est ad Ministri constitutionem in tali casu potest legitimè exerceri Bellarm enervat lib. 3. de clericis cap. 2 de ordinatione And againe a little after Episcopos veros à veris Episcopis ordinariè dicimus ordinandâ—s esse sed nomine Ecclesiae cui ordinantur And againe a little after Potestas ordinandi est aliquâ— modo originaliter in tota Ecclesia sicut potestas videndi originaliter est in toto animali quamvis formaliter subjectivè sit in oculo tantùm tum etiam ordinationis exercitium pendet à tota Ecclesia sicut actus videndi hoc vel illud determinatè pendet non ab oculo sed à toto And againe Quamvis in Ecclesia benè constituta non debeat aliis quam presbyteris ordinandi manus mandari in defectu tamen idoneorum presbyterorum potest non presbyteris mandari And yet againe in the next place Si concedatur hoc quòd ex ordine nemo possit esse legitimus pastor nisi sit à legitimo Pastore Episcopo ordinatus In ordinis tamen defectu cùm jam primò instaurari debet ordo non potestâ—tam accuratè observari atque adeo extraordinarium aliquid tum potest intervenire sine ullo vitio These words you see are punctuall and plaine that the power of ordaining Ministers is originally in the Church and that though when a Church hath Presbyters the act of ordaining is to be done by those Presbyters yet in defect of such it may be performed by them that are no Presbyters lawfully and without fault which is the case of our Churches that are in their beginnings and may
the said Church in particular in Church fellowship 4. And not to depart from the said Church afterward without the consent thereof or how doe you hold and practise in these things 9. Whether doe you hold all or the most of our Parish assemblies in Old-England to be true Visible Churches of Christ with which you may lawfully joyne in every part of Gods true worship if occasion served thereto or if not all or the most then what ones are those of which you so account and with which you durst so partake or joyne and in what respects And why be not the rest such as well as they 10. If you hold that any of our parishionall Assemblies are true Visible Churches and that the Members thereof are all or some of them at least members of true visible Churches then whether will you permit such members at least as are either famously knowne to your selves to be godly or doe bring sufficient Testimoniall thereof from others that are so knowne or from the Congregation it selfe whereof they were members here to partake with you in all the same Ordinances and parts of Gods true worship in any of your Congregations as by occasion they may be there in the same manner and with the like liberty as you would permit any that might happily come unto you from any of the Churches of Geneva France the Low-Countreyes or yet from any one Church to another among your selves Suppose from some Church about Connecticut or that of Plimouth c. Vnto the Church at Boston New-Towne Dorchester c. Or if not what may be the Reason thereof 11. Whether doe you hold our present standing in our Parish Assemblies here in Old ENGLAND to bee lawfull and safe to be continued in or how fâ—rre it may be so 12. Whether doe you hold that every Believer is alwayes bound to joyne himselfe as a fixed Member to some one particular Congregation so as if he doe not and so oft and so long as he doth it not so oft and so long he is without the Church in the Apostles sence 1 Cor. 5. as an Heathen or Publican out of the Kingdome of Christ and possibility of salvation according to that maxime in divinity Extra Ecclesiam non est salus 13. VVhether doe you thinke it lawfull and convenient that a company of private and illitterate persons into a Church body combined should themselves ordinarily examine elect ordaine and depose their owne Ministers of the word without the asistance of any other Ministers of other Churches where the same may be had 14. Whether doe you hold that every small Company of seaven or nine or twenty or fourty persons combined into a Church body be such a Church as by the ordinance of Christ hath and ought to have all power and exercise of Church Government So as they may transact all Ecclesiasticall businesses independently amongst themselves 15. Whether do you give the exercise of all Church power of Government to the whole Church or to the Presbiters thereof alone and if to those then we desire to know what act of Government and Superior authority properly so called may the Presbiters doe more then any other member may doe or without the particular consent of the rest wee crave to have those particular Acts mentioned and how and over whom in those Acts the Presbiters doe rule in propriety of speaking more then the rest of the Congregation doe 16. Whether doe you not permit Women to Vote in Church matters 17. Whether in Voting doe the Major part alwayes or at any time carry Ecclisiasticall matters with you or in what things doth it in what not 18. What meanes have you to preserve your Churches in Vnity and Verity or to correct or reduce any Church erring in Doctrine or practice As 1. Whether you have any plat-form of Doctrine and Discipline agreed upon or if you have not whether meane you to have one and when and thinke you it lawfull and expedient so to have 2. Whether have you combined your selves together into Classes or purpose so to doe so as to doe no weighty matter without their counsell and consent 3. Or give you any power to Synods and Councells to determine and order things that cannot otherwise be ended so as that their determination shall bind the particular Churches so assembled to due obedience in case they decree nothing but according to Truth and right and to peaceable suffering in case they should doe otherwise Or what other course you have or intend to have for that end aforesaid 19. Whether hold you that each particular Church may lawfully make such Laws or Orders Ecclesiasticall for the Government of it selfe and the Members thereof for decency order and Edification as shall oblige all her Members and may not be omitted without sinne 20. Wherein hold you that the whole Essence of a Ministers calling doth consist As 1 whether is Election by the People it yea or no Or 2. is it so Essentiall as that without it the Ministers calling is a meere nullity Or 3. is Ordination as Essentiall a part thereof as the Peoples Election Or 4. is it but a meer formality and solemnity of their calling 21. Whether doe you hold it lawfull for meer lay or private men to ordaine Ministers in any case 22. What Essentiall difference put you between the Office of Pastor and Teacher and doe you obserâ—â—e the same difference inviolably and do not your Teachers by vertue of that Office give themselves usually to application of doctrine as well as your Pastours and do they not also usually apply the Seales 23. What authority or Eminency have your Preaching Elders above your sole Ruling Elders or are they both equalls 24. VVhether may a Minister of one congregation being thereto requested do as a Minister any act of his Ministery as Preach Baptize Administer the Lords Supper Ordain c. in and unto other Congregations besides his owne 25. Whether hold you that a Minister of a Congregation leaving or loosing his place suppose without his fault doe withall lose both Nomen and Esse of his ministery and do become a meere Lay or private man untill he be a new elected and ordained 26. Whether doe you allow or thinke it lawfull to allow and settle any certain stinted maintenance upon your Ministers 27. Whether doe you permit and call upon meer Lay and private men neither being in the ministerie nor intended to it ordinarily to preach or Prophecie publiquely in and before the Congregation and whether thinke you that prophecying mentioned 1 Cor. 14. be to be understood of such and be an ordinary and standing order of God in the Church 28. Whether doe you allow and call upon your people publiquely before all the Congregation to propound Questions move doubts argue with their ministers of matters delivered either by them or others either at the same or some other time 29. Whether hold you that the conversion of sinners to God is ordinarily
modest offer of Disputation laying downe 16. Propositions which they offer to maintaine against the Prelats give this for the fourth of them viz. There is no true visible Church of Christ but a particular ordinary Congregation onely Doubtlesse every true visible Church hath power from Christ to exercise Excommunication and other Ordinances of Christ so that they proceed therein according to the Rules of the word 1 Cor. 5. 4. 5. Mat. 18. 17. Now Dr. Whitakers sheweth against Bellarmine that Excommunication belongs not to the universall Church but onely to a particular Congregation Qui justè excommunicantur saith he co satanae traditos esse concedimuâ— non tâ—men posse prâ—priem Dâ—â—i ejectâ—s ex Ecclesia Catholica Quia Excommunicatio non Catholica sed particularis Ecclesiae censura est De Eccles Qu. 1. c. 6. Wherefore if Excommunication which belongs to the visible Church belongeth to a particular Congregation it followeth that there is no visible Church but onely a particular Congregation Secondly As all visible Believers are not without Christ but in Christ according as they are believers so we easily grant that those without of whom the Apostle speakes 1 Cor. 5. were unbelievers Pagans and Heathens both without Christ and also without the visible Church For those that were in Christ and believers in Him were not wont to abstaine from joyning to some particular Congregation or other and so it come to passe that as they were in Christ by their Faith so by such joyning they became also to be within the visible Church 3. But this we conceive is cleare also that unlesse Believers be Members of this or that particular Congregation to whose inspection and Government they have commended themselves in the Lord they also in some respect may be said to be without that is without the jurisdiction and power of the visible Church and without right to the priviledges of it as long as they continue in that State for the Church hath nothing to do either to dispence censures and Church priviledges to Pagans who are without all Churches and without Christ also or to such Christians who though they are not without Christ yet are not within any particular Church for neither the Church nor the Ministers thereof may be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And though those without of whom the Apostle speakes 1 Cor. 5. were Pagans and Heathens both without Christ and without the visible Church also yet when hee speaketh of Judgeing and saith they might judge them that are within and not judge them that are without hee must not be understood as if he meant it simply of being in Christ or without Christ and no more then so but also of being in that particular Congregation and without it for it is plaine that those that were in Christ if they were not also within their particular Congregation they had nothing to do to judge them and those that were within their particular Congregation them they might judge though they were not in Christ 4. And that Church priviledges do not belong to Believers as such but onely to such as withall are Members of some particular Church the Grounds and Reasons in the Answer to the third and fourth Proposition sent the last yeare do seeme to us to make manifest whereto we do referre you for further Answer to this Question It is an opinion of the Anabaptists that the Church is made by Baptisme and therefore when they constitute or erect a Church they do it by being all of them Baptized which was the manner of Mr. Smith Mr. Helwis and the rest of that company when they set up their Church The Papists also do imagine that men enter into the Church by Baptisme and it is said that their Founts were set neere the doores of their Temples to signifie mens entring into the Church by Baptisme and they thought themselves to be christened or made christian soules by being Baptized But we do not believe that Baptisme doth make men Members of the Church nor that it is to be Administred to them that are without the Church as the way and meanes to bring them in but to them that are within the Church as a seale to confirme the Covenant of God unto them For 1. This is one point of the dignity and priviledge of the Church that Baptisme and all Church Ordinances are given and committed to it as Circumcision and Church Ordinances were given and concredited to the Church of the Jewes Ioh. 7. 22. Now if Baptisme in its first being and institution be given as a benefit and priviledge to the Church then Baptisme is not that which makes the Church but the Church is presupposed and must be before it for the dones or persons to whom a thing is given must needs be before the gift that is given to them 2. The nature and use of Baptisme is to be a seale to confirme the Covenant of Grace between God and his Church and the Members thereof as circumcision also was Rom. 4. 11. Now a seale is not to make a thing that was not but to confirme something that was before and so Baptisme is not that which gives being to the Church nor to the Covenant but is for confirmation thereof To bring in Baptisme before the Covenant and before the Church with whom God makes the Covenant and then to bring in the Church afterwards is to make Baptisme a seale unto a Blanke or to a falshood When the Jesuits of Rhemes had said that Christ sent 12 Apostles to the Jewes to move them to penance and so by Baptisme to make them of his Church And that Paul was sent to the Gentiles to move them also to faith and penance and by Baptisme to make them of his Church This saying of making men of the Church by Baptisme though uttered by them as it were by the way and not being the chiefe scope of their discourse yet seemed to Mr. Cartwright so erroneous and unsound that hee would not let it passe without bearing speciall witnesse against the same And therefore in opposition thereunto he hath these words and in another Character for more conspicuousnesse viz. That Baptisme makes not men of the Church but sealeth their incorporation into it hath been declared afore Argument of Acts 6. 1. And that Catechisme which is commonly said to be penned by our Reverend Brother Mr. Ball or Mr. Nicholas now with God giving this for the definition of Baptisme that it is a Sacrament of our ingrafting into Christ communion with him and entrance into the Church doth in the Exposition plainely declare that when they called Baptisme a Sacrament of our entrance into the Church they did not meane that Baptisme made men Members of the Church but signified and sealed that they were Members afore The seed of Abraham say they Pag 144. Gal. 3. 7. or children of Christian Parents are within the Covenant are Christians and Members of the Church 1 Cor. 7. 14. Rom. 11. 16.
Baptisme therefore doth not make them Christian soules but doth solemnly signifie and Seale their ingrafting into Christ and that communion which the Members of Christ have with him their head and doth confirme that they are acknowledged Members of the Church and entred into it 1 Pet. 3. 21. 3. The Lord hath had his Church when there was neither Baptisme nor circumcision and therefore Baptisme or circumcision cannot be that which constitutes the Church The Church is one and the same in essence from the begining of the world to the end thereof viz. A company of People combined together by holy Covenant with God and one with another and this hath been before Baptisme and likewise before Circumcision in the dayes of the Patriarks afore Abraham Yea if Baptisme now or Circumcision in former time did make men Members of the Church then for forty yeares together there was no making Members of the Church for so long circumcision was discontinued when Baptisme was not yet instituted Ioss 5. 2 3. c. And so by this meanes all that Generation of the Israelites that were not circumcised till their comming over Jordan unto Gilgall should have bin no Members of the Church afore that time of their circumcision which is contrary to the Scripture which as it gives the name and title of a Church to the body of this people when they were in the Wildernesse Act. 7. â—8 and they were in the Wildernesse 40. yeares in the latter parts of which time there were few left remaining that had beene circumcised so it witnesseth that afore this time of their circumcision they were in covenant with God and his Church Deut. 29. 10 11 12. For that covenant was not made with their Fathers that came out of Egypt and were circumcised there because that generation was consumed in the Wildernesse for their murmuring afore this time but this covenant was made with the children that as yet were uncircumcised and therefore it was not circumcision that made men Members of the Church 4. Baptisme hath been Administred and no Church nor Members made thereby and men have been made Members of Churches and not then Baptised but before And therfore it is not Baptisme that makes men Members of the Church Jerusalem and all Judea and all the Region round about Jordan were Baptised of Iohn confessing their sinnes Mat. 3. 6. And Christ made and Baptised more Disciples then Iohn Ioh. 4. 1. And yet neither Christ nor John did make new Churches nor gather men into them themselves both the one and the other living and dying Members of the Jewish Church which was not yet dissolved untill upon their rejecting of Christ not onely of his person upon the crosse but of his Gospel in blaspheming and persecuting Grace offered them the two staves of beauty and bands were broken and cut assunder whereby God did breake the Covenant that he had made with that People and the Brotherhood between Juda and Israel that is he did un church them Zach. 11. 10 11. c. to 15. So that here is Baptisme Administred by John and Christ and yet men not received thereby into the Church as Members for they were Members long afore Againe when any of those of Jerusalem Judea and the Region round about Jordan that were Baptised of John or any of those many more that were Baptised of Christ were afterward joyned as Members to those christian Churches in Judea Samaria and Galile Act. 9. 31. As no doubt many of them were they were not made Members of those Christian Churches by being Baptised for they were Baptised long afore by John and Christ so that those men were Members of the Jewish Church which was not yet dissolved and were Baptised afterward And therefore it was not Baptisme that made them members either of the one Church or of the other 5. There are sundry inconveniences which for ought we see will unavoidably follow if we shall say that Baptisme makes men members of the Church For first if Baptisme be that which constituts the Church then Baptisme may be dispenced by them that are no Ministers for extraordinary Ministers as Apostles and such like are now ceased and ordinary Ministers have no power to dispence Baptisme to any but onely to them that are already members of the Church seeing their Commission and power is limited to the Church and the flock of God over which the Holy Ghost hath made them overseers Acts 20. 28. Besides the Church is before the Ministers seeing the power of choosing Ministers is given by Christ unto the Church and therfore if Baptisme be that which makes the Church then men must be Baptised afore there be Ministers to Baptise them and consequently without Ministers Secondly if Baptisme rightly for substance partaked doth make men members of the visible Church then it will follow that Papists are members of the Church for they have Baptisme so farre right for substance as that it needs not be repeated But Mr. Perkins teacheth that this Baptisme proves not the Church of Rome of which all Papists are members to be any true Church of God and gives sundry Reasons for the same in Answer to them that from Baptisme rightly for substance Administred in Popish Assemblies would prove those Assemblies to be true Churches Exposit of Creede in the Article I believe the holy Catholique Church And surely for our parts we doe not see how it will be avoyded but if Baptisme made men members of the visible Church either Papists are members of the visible Church and the Church of Rome of which they are Members a true visible Church or else we must renounce their Baptisme as corrupt and false even for the substance of it and so all such as shall be converted from amongst them must be Baptised againe as not having had the substance of Baptisme before such dangerous consequences do follow from saying that Baptisme rightly for substance partaked doth make them that are so Baptised Members of the visible Church If any shall say Though Baptisme do not make men Members of the Church yet it proves them to be Members as a cause is proved by the effect or an Antecedent by a consequent and therefore all Baptised Persons should be admitted to all Church priviledges as Members whereever they become We Answer that this will not hold neither but suppose a man have received Baptisme as a Member of some visible Church which ought not to have been Administred to him had he not been a member yet this doth not prove him to be a member still and so give him right to all Church Priviledges though hee do remaine alwaies as a Baptised person and the Reason is because his Baptisme may remain when his Church fellowship may be dissolved as that he can have no right to Sacraments thereby the Church member-ship of a Baptised Person may be thus dissolved by sundry meanes 1. By some sentence of Excommunication justly passed against him for his
that may be infected with corrupt opinions of Arminianisme Familisme c. or any other dangerous error against that faith which was once delivered to the Saints as knowing how easily such men if they were admitted might infect others and perhaps destroy the Faith of some And this seemes to be intended in your second particular For both these we have our warrant as in Generall from those places which shew how Church Members ought to be qualified that they ought to be Saints faithfull in Christ Jesus c. So in speciall from that Math. 3. 6. Acts 19 18 Acts 8. 37. 38. Where men before they were admitted made profession of Repentance towards God and faith towards the Lord Jesus Christ for it is expressely said that they confessed their sinnes they confessed and shewed their deeds they professed their faith in Jesus Christ the Sonne of God Thirdly when this is done those that by manifestation of Repentance and Faith are approved as fit Members for a Church do openly professe their subjection to the Gospel of Christ and to all the Ordinances of God in that Church where now they joyne as Members which seemes to be your third particular in this Quaerie The Distinction of particular Churches one from another as severall and distinct Societies seemes to us a necessary ground for this practise for without this kinde of Covenanting we know not how it would be avoyded but all Churches would be confounded into one inasmuch as it is neither Faith nor intire affection nor Towne-dwelling nor frequenting the Assemblies that can make a man a Member or distinguish Church Members from other men See the Apologie 4. Your fourth particular in this Quaerie is Answered in the Answer to the sixt Position sent the last yeare Besides all these we heare the testimony of others if there be any that can speake of the conversion and Godly conversation of such persons which we judge to be a warrantable course from Acts 9. 26 27. It is the second of your Quaeries what things we hold necessary to the Being of a true visible Church in Generall which being Answereâ— this of the Parish Assemblies in England in particular whether we hold all or the most of them to be Churches we conceive might well have been spared They that now the state of those Assemblies may make application of the Generall to the particulars if they have a calling therunto Yet because you are pleased to put us to this also we thus Answer 1. That we doubt not but of Ancient time there have been many true Churches in England consisting of right matter and compacted and united together by the right forme of an holy Covenant For Mr. Fox sheweth at large that the Gospel was brought into England in the Apostles times or within a little while after Acts Moâ— lib. 2. begining p. 137. Where hee reporteth out of Gildas that England received the Gospel in the time of Tiberius the Emperor under whom Christ suffered and that Joseph of Arin athea was sent of Philip the Apostle from France to England about the yeare of Christ 63. and remained in England all his time and so hee with his fellowes laid the first foundation of Christian Faith among the Brittaine people and other Preachers and Teachers comming afterwards confirmed the same and increased it Also the said Mr. Fox reporteth out of Tâ—rtullian that the Gospel was disperced abroad by the sound of the Apostles into many Nations and amongst the rest into Brittaine yea into the wildest places of Brittaine which the Romans could never attaine unto and alledgeth also out of Necephorus that Simon Zelotes did spread the Gospell to the West Ocean and brought the same into the Iles of Brittanie and sundry other proofs he there hath for the same Point Now if the Gospel and Christian Religion were brought into England in the Apostles times and by their meanes it is like there were Churches planted there of Saints by calling which is the right matter of Churches and by way of holy Covenant as the right form for that was the manner of Constituting Churches in the Apostles times as also in the times afore Christ as hath been shewed from the Scripture in the Apologie And the footsteps hereof though mixed with manifold corruptions that have growne in aftertimes are remaining in many places of the Land to this day as appeareth by those 3 Questions and Answers at Baptisme Abrenuntias Abrenuntio Credis Credo Spondes Spondeo Dost thou renounce the Devill and all his works I renounce them all dost thou believe in God the Father c I do believe Dost thou promise to walk according to this Faith c I do promise For though it may be they conceived that men entred into the Church by Baptisme yet hereby it appears that their judgment was that when men entred into the Church there ought to be a renouncing of sin and believing on Christ and an open professing of these things with a promise to walk accordingly Secondly Though Popish Apostacy did afterwards for many ages over-spread all the Churches in England as in other Countries yet we believe God still reserved a remnant according to the Election of Grace amongst them for whose sake he reserved the Holy Scriptures amongst them and Baptisme in the name of the Trinity onely And when God of his rich Grace was pleased to stirre up the Spirit of King Edward the sixth and Queene Elizabeth to cast off the Pope and all fundamentall errors in Doctrine and Worship and a great part of the Tyranny of Popish Church Government though at first some Shires and sundry Parishes stood out against that Reformation for a time yet afterwards they generally received the Articles of Religion agreed upon Anno 1562. which are published and consented to by all the Ministers endowed in every Congregation with the silent consent also of the people and subscription of the hands of the chiefe of them wherein they do acknowledge no rule of Faith or manners but the holy Scriptures no divine Worship but to God onely no mediation nor salvation but in Christ onely no conversion by mans free will but by Gods free Grace no Justification but by Faith no perfection nor merit of works with sundry other necessary and saving truths all which containing the Marrow and Summe of the Oracles of God wich are the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the eloquia Des concredited onely to the Church Rom. 3. 1. 2. and which are that saving Doctrine of truth which is fruitfull in all the world where it comes â—olo 1. 5 6. and upon which the Church is grounded and built and which also it holdeth forth and maintaineth 1 Tim. 3. 15. we do therefore acknowledge that where the people do with common and mutuall consent gather into setled Congregations ordinarily every Lords day as in England they do to heare and teach this Doctrine and do professe their subjection therunto and do binde themselves and their
communion that wee may know how to admit such Mâ—n and what to require from them more or lâ—sse And this together with that want of testimoniall from the congregation is one mainâ— Reason why some few godly men that have come from England upon occasion not with purpose of continuance here but of returning againâ— have not beene received to Church Ordinances during theiâ— abode in the Countrey though this we may say also that we know not of any such that have requested to be received whereas â—uch as have come in lâ—ke manner from one Câ—uâ—ch to another mâ—ngst our selves upon their requâ—st have been râ—ceived the Reason ne say is because these Churcâ—es are better knowne then the Parish Assemblies are 3. But if men come from one Church in this Countrey to another with purpose there to stay and not to returne to the Church from whence they came which is the manner of all or the most that come from England they are not recâ—ived into our Churches but upon the very same tearmes and in the same manner as men are received that come from England viz upon personall profession of their faith and entring into Church Covenant in that Church to which they now come And the same we say of such as come from any of the Churches in other Countries and wherefore are they not received otherwise because we renounce the Church of which they were Members as no true Church Not so but because wee believe in matter of Faith such as is the admitting of Members any true Church may erre and there may now bee seene some unworthinesse in the man which did not appeare when hee was admitted in the other Church and therefore no reason that the Act of one Church in the admitting of Members or the like should bee a binding Rule unto another for all Churches are left to their liberty to admit and receive such into their Chuâ—ch as they shal find to be fit according to the Rule of the word and to refuse others without respect of what they have bin before whether Members of this Church or that Church or of any Church or none and therefore in this our walking and practice is alike towards one another and towards others as it is towards yours In which practise we are not alone for the very same as Mr. Parker reporteth is the manner of the Reformed Churches amongst whom no man is admitted for a Member but upon personall profession of faith and entring into Church covenant though it may be he have formally beene admitted in the very same manner in the Church where he lived before Polit. Eccles l. 3. c. 16. 3. 4. p. 171. If the ground of this Qu. were any doubt in your owne consciences concerning your owne way there were no fault in propounding such a Qu. for further light and satisfaction if wee were able to give it Or if it did ariâ—e from any unnecessary intermedling of ours in your matters so as to take on us to condemne or judge your present standing when we have no calling thereunto there were then Reason why we should give account of our owne doings or sayings But if it came from some men we should looke at it as a tempting Question tending onely to make matter and pick quarrells and then we should leave it to them that framed it to consider the ground of it and to frâ—me their owne Answer to it As for us we have alwayes been slow and loth to judge or condemne your present standing remembring the saying of the Apostle Who art thou that judgest another Mans Servant he standeth or falleth to his own Master Rom. 14. 4. But now knowing you well Reverend and Deare Brethren and your integrity we thinke wee may lawfully and safely Answer and that wee would doe by promising a few distinctions for explaining the Termes of the Question 1. Concerning the persons in the Parish Assemblies which may be meant of such as the providence of God hath so disposâ—d that they are free and at liberty or of such as are bound and it may be not sui juris as Wives Children under the government of Parents Servants Apprentices Prisoners Sickefolkes c. 2. Concerning the Parish Assemblies which may bee meant either of such as want the Preaching of the Word or Sacraments or Discipline or any other holy Ordinance of Christ or have many Ordinances in them which are not of God but of Men or else it may be meant of some others which in both respects are Reformed and pure if there be any such 3. Concerning standing in them which may be meant onely of habitation and dwelling upon House or Land within the Precincts of the Parish or else in conforming in judgement or practise to the corrupt Eccâ—esiasticall Ordinances used in those Assemblies and contenting themselves therewith 4. Concerning lawfull and safe where safety may be meant either of safety from sinne or from danger by persecution these Distinctions wee judge necessary to bee premised because your Question is whether wee count your standing in the Parish Assemblies lawfull and safe or how farre it may be so And so our Answer is in 3. Propositions 1. Some Persons and namely those that are not sui juris may lawfully and without sinne though it may bee not safely without danger of persecution continue such standing in the Parish Assemblies as doe dwell within the Prâ—câ—â—cts of them so long as they neither conforme themselves to the corruptions of men by such continuing of their standing nor live in the neglect or want of any Ordinance of CHRIST through their owne default 2. Such standing in the Parish Assemblies where a man shall and must conforme to the corruptions of men in Doctrine or Worship or the Government of the Chuâ—ch is not lawfull for any to be continued in 3. To continue such standing in the Parish Assemblies as to live in the want of any Ordinance of Christ is not lawfull nor can be done safely without sinne of them to whom the providence of God doth open a doore of further enlargement The first of these Propositions wee suppose you doubt not of The second is confirmed by many places of Scripture and namely by such as these Though Israel play the Harlot yet let not Iudah offend and come not yee to Gilgall nor go up to Bethaven nor sweare the Lord liveth Ephraim is joyned to Idolls let him alone Hos 4. 15. 17. Come out from among them and be ye separate saith the Lord and touch no uncleane thing and I will receive you 2 Cor. 6. 17. Be not partaker of other Mens sinnes keep thy selfe pure 1 Tim. 5. 22. Come out of her my People that yee bee not partakers of her sinnes and that yee receive not of her Plagues Rev. 18. 4. Have no fellowship with the unfruitfull works of darkenesse but reprove them rather Eph. 5. 11. Ephraim is oppressed and broken in judgment because he willingly walked after the Commandement Hos 5. 11.
the Title of the 21. is De paritate Ecclesiarum where he openeth and explaineth and by many Arguments and Testimonies confirmeth what we hold of the independency and paritie of Churches to which learned discourse of his we referre you for further satisfaction in this point Wee doe believe that Christ hath ordained that there should be a Presbytery or Eldership 1 Tim. 4. 14. And that in every Church â—it 1 5. Acts 14. 23. 1 Cor. 12. 28. whose worke is to teach and rule the Church by the Word and lawes of Christ 1 Tim. 5. â—7 and unto whom so teaching and ruling all the people ought to be obedient and submit themselves Heb. 13. 17. And therefore a Government meerly Popular or Democraticall which Divines and Orthodox Writers doe so much condemne in Morillius and such like is farre from the practice of these Churches and we believe farre from the minde of Christ Secondly neverthelesse a Government meerely Aristocratical wherein the Church government is so in the hands of some Elders as that the rest of the body are wholly excluded from entermedling by way of power therein such a government we conceive also to be without Warrant of the Word and likewise to be injurious to the people as infringing that liberty which Christ hath given to them in choosing their owne Officers in admitting of Members and censuring of offendors even Ministers themselves when they be such as the Church of Colosse must admonish Archippus of his duety Col. 4. 17. Master Parker you know hath 22. Arguments to prove the superiority of the Churches over and above her officers Polit. Eccles lib. 3. cap. 12. And Master Baine saith If the Church have power by election to choose a Minister and so power of instituting him then of destituting also Instituere destituere ejusdem est potestatis Dioces Triall P. 88. And againe no reason evinceth the Pope though a generall Pastors subject to the censure of a Church oecumenicall but the same proveth a Diocesan Bishop and wee may adde and a Congregationall Minister subject to the censure of the particular Church pag. 89. And whereas it might be objected then may Sheep censure the Shepherd Children their fathers which were absurd To this he answereth that similitudes hold not in all things naturall Parents are no waies Children nor in state of subjection to their Children but spirituall fathers are so fathers that in some respects they are children to the whole Church So Shepherds are no waies Sheep but Ministers are in regard of the whole Church 2. Parents and Shepherds are absolutely Parents and Shepherds bee they good or evill but spirituall Parents and Pastors are no longer so then they do accordingly behave themselves p. 89. To the same purpose and more aâ— large is this Objection answered by Master Parker Polit. Eccles l. 3. c. 12. p. 78. 79. And againe if their owne Churches have no power over them it will be hard to shew wherein others have such power of Jurisdiction over persons who belong not to their owne Churches p. 89. So that all power is not in the Officers alone seeing the Officers themselves if they offend are under the power of the Church Even Paul himselfe though an extraordinary Officer yet would not take upon him to excommunicate the incestuous person without the Church but sends to them exhorting them to doe it and blames them because they had not done it sooner 1 Cor. 5. which shewes that the exercise of all Church power of government is not in the Officers alone And therefore the Lord Iesus reproving Pergamus and Thyatira for suffering Balaamites Nicholaitans and the woman Iezebel among them and calling on them for reformation herein Rev. 2. sends his Epistle not onely to the Angels of those Churches but also to the Churches or whole Congregations as appeareth Rev. 1. 11. And also in the conclusion of those Epistle where the words are let him that hath an eare heare what the spirit saith not onely to the Angels but unto the Churches whereby it appeares that the suffering of these corrupt persons and practises was the sinne of the whole Church and the reforming of them a duty required of them all Now the reforming of abuses in the Church argues some exercise of Church government as the suffering of them argues some remissenesse therein and therefore it followes that some exercise of Church government was required of the whole Church and not all of the Angels alone Sure it is the whole Congregation of Israel thought it their duty to see to the reforming of abuses when they appeared to spring up amongst them as appeareth by their behaviour practise when the two Tribes and an halfe had set up the Altar upon the bankes of Jordan Ios 22. for it is said that the whole Congregation of the Children of Israel gathered themselves together at Shilo to go up to warre against them v. 12. And when Phineas and ten Princes with him were sent to expostulate with them about the matter it was the whole Congregation that sent them v. 13 14. And when they delivered their Message they spake in the name of the whole Congregation saying Thus saith the whole congregation of the Lord what trespasse is this c. v. 16. which plainely declares that the whole congregation and not the Elders or Rulers alone thought it their duty to see abuses reformed and redressed which could not be without some exercise of government And when Achan the Sonne of Caâ—mi had committed a trespasse in the accursed thing â—is 7. it is counted the sinne of the whole congregation and such a sinne as brought a Plague upon them all for it is said the children of Israel committed a trespasse in the accursed thing v. 1. And God saith to Ioshua not the Elâ—ers have sinned but Israel hath sinned and they have transgressed my Covenant and they have stolne of the accursed thing and put it among their owne stuffe v. 11. And for this wrath fell on all the congregation of Israel and that man perished not alone in his iniquity Iosh 22. 20. Now why should not he have perished alone but wrath must fall upon them all and why should his sinne be the sinne of all the congregation if the care of preventing it and timely suppressing the same which could not be without some exercise of Church government had not bin a duty lying upon all the whole congregation but upon the Elders and Officers alone doubtlesse the just Lord who saith every man shall beare his owne burden Gal. 6. 5. would not have brought wrath upon all the congregation for Achans sinne if such government as might have prevented or timely reformed the same had not belonged to the whole congregation but to the Elders alone And before this time all the children of Israel and not the Elders alone are commanded to put Lepers and uncleane persons out of the Campe Numb 5. 1 2. By all which it appeareth that all exercise
added ver 14. Thirdly Those that were added to the Church were added and joyned to them by such an act as others durst not put forth Act. 5. 13. Of the rest durst no man joyne unto them and therefore it was not by the irresistable act of God in converting of them but by some voluntary act of their owne choice and consent for Gods converting grace depends not upon mans daring or not daring to receive it If to be joyned be no more but to be converted then when it is said Some durst not be joyned the meaning should be they durst not be converted nor suffer Faith to be wrought in them which is grosse Arminianisme suspending the converting grace of God upon the free will of the creature Fourthly And as this joyning which others durst not doe cannot be meant of being converted So if it be well considered what the thing was wherein they durst not joyne it may appeare that it was nothing els but this that they durst not agree and engage themselves to be of their body and societie that is they durst not joyne in Covenant with them For it cannot be meant of dwelling in the Towne with them for this they both durst doe and did nor is it onely of joyning to heare the Word in their assembly for this also they durst doe and many did it in great multitudes so that many by hearing the Word became beleevers and were added to the Lord both of men and women ver 14. at this very time when it is said of some they durst not joyne unto them Nor is it of joyning to them in affection or approbation of their way for this they also durst doe and did expresse so much in magnifying and commending them when yet they durst not joyne unto them ver 13. Which magnifying of them doth imply that they heard their doctrine and saw their practise and approved it and highly commended them for the same Wherefore seeing this joyning which some durst not doe cannot be meant of being converted nor of joyning in habitation nor of joyning in affection nor in hearing the Word in their Assembly nor of approbation and expressions that way it remaineth that it must be meant of joyning in that neere relation of Church-fellowship amongst them so as to be engaged by voluntary consent and agreement to be members of their Church Fiftly If joyning to the Church were no more but to be converted then he that were converted were joyned as a member of every visible Church throughout the world which were a great confusion of that Order and distinction of Churches which the Lord hath appointed Men may be joyned to the Church in heartie affection and love and yet without any Covenant True but this will not make them members of that Church for then Saul was a member of the Church at Hierusalem afore he was joyned a member for he was joyned to them in heartie affection afore and therefore assayed to joyne as a member and so were they that durst not joyne Act. 5. 13. yea then a man should be a member of many Churches yea of all Christian Churches in the world for he is to love them and beare heartie affection to them all The true members of the Churches in England are united in heartie affection to the Churches in Scotland in Holland in France in New-England c. And yet they are not members of all these Churches nor subject to their censures as members are But the reason of that is because they doe not dwell among them in the same Towne Neither would habitation with them in the same Towne make a man a member of the Church there if there be no more then so Suppose Saul to have dwelt in the same house afore his conversion in which he dwelt after which is not unpossible nor unlikely yet we see he was no member of the Church at Hierusalem afore his conversion no nor of some time after though he might have dwelt in an house in the midst of the Christians and Church-members there The members of the Dutch and French Churches in London or other Townes in England are not members of the English-Congregations or Churches no more then the English are of theirs and yet they dwell promiscuously together in the same Streete of the same Towne Towne-dwelling would not make a man a free-man of a Company in London or some other Corporation for many others dwell in the Towne with them yea it may be in the same streete that are not free of their Company and so it is in this case But the reason why such as dwell in Towne with the Church are not members thereof may be because they frequent not their Assemblies Idiots and Infidells might come into the publick meetings among the Corinthians 1 Cor. 14. 23 24 25. yet Idiots and Infidells were not therefore members of the Church And Saul after his conversion might have come in among the Church in time of publick duties and have seene and heard all that they had done yet this would not have made him of one body with them Some Indians Moores and other naturall persons come into our meetings in New-England some of their owne accord and others by the Command or Counsell of their Masters and Governours yet no man can say that all these are hereby made Church-members Wherefore seeing neither conversion nor loving affection nor cohabitation nor coming into their meetings doth joyne a man as a member of the visible Church for some men have all these and yet are not members and others are sometimes members of the visible Churches and yet want some of these are hypocrites and want sound conversion it remaineth therefore that as sound conversion makes a man fit matter for a Church So profession of his Faith and of his subjection to the Gospel and the Churches approbation and acceptance of him which is the summe of Church-Covenant is the formall cause that gives him the being of a member But joyning doth not alway signifie joyning in Covenant Philip joyned to the Eunnuchs chariote and dust to mens feete Act. 8. 29. Luke 10 11. and yet there was no Covenant and therefore men may joyne to the Church without any Covenant The word indeed may expresse any close joyning whether naturall as the branch is joyned to the Vine or an arme or other member to the body or artificiall as when two stickes were joyned to become one in Ezekiels hand Ezek. 37. Or when Carpenters or Masons doe joyne pieces of stone or Timber together to make one house Neh. 4. 6. Ezr. 4. 12. but is not onely the force of the word that is stood upon But when joyning is used to expresse such joyning wherein a man voluntarily takes on him a new relation there it alwayes implyes a Covenant whether the relation be morall and civill or religious and Ecclesiasticall We speake of voluntary relation for there are naturall relations as betweene parents
and children and these need no Covenant there is no Covenant to make a man a Parent or a childe There are also violent relations as between Conquerour and Captives and in these there is no Covenant neither but others are voluntary and these alwayes imply a Covenant and are founded therein whether they be morall and civill as between husband and wife Pro. 2. 17. between Master and servants Luk. 15. 15. between Prince and subject between Partners in Trade 2 Chro. 20. 35 36 37. where the Covenant or agreement is that men shall bare such a share of charges and receive such a share of profits or religious as between Minister and people between the Church and the members all these are done by way of Covenant A man cannot joyne himselfe to a woman as her husband but by way of Covenant A man cannot joyne himselfe to another as a servant or apprentise but by way of Covenant And so may we say of all the rest nor into any body corporate but by the same way and means If men be united into a body politick or incorporate a man cannot be said to be joyned to them by meere heartie affection unlesse withall he joynes himselfe unto them by some Contract or Covenant Now of this nature is every particular Church a body incorporate 1 Cor. 12. 27. Yee are the body of Christ c. and hath power to cast out 1 Cor. 5. 13. and to forgive and receive in Penitents 2 Cor. 2. 7. 8 as a body incorporate and therefore he that will joyne unto them must doe it by way of Covenant or Agreement and so this Answer to this Objection may be a fourth Argument to prove the point in hand that joyning in Covenant is that which makes a man a member of a Church All voluntary relations all relations which are neither naturall nor violent are entred into by way of Covenant But he that joynes into a Church as a member or enters into a Church doth take upon him such a relation Therefore joyning to a Church as a member is by way of Covenant A fifth Argument may be drawne from the power which all Churches Officers and members have over all their members in the Lord. If all Churches Officers and members have power in the Lord over all their members then joyning in Covenant is necessary to make a man a member of a Church but the former is true therefore the latter is true also The Assumption in this Argument that all Churches have power over their members is proved from 1 Cor. 5. 4 5. 13. where the Apostle reproveth the Corinthians for suffering the Incestuous man amongst them and commands them to deliver him to Satan and cast him out from amongst them Now this he would not have done if they had had no power over him or if there had been any roome for them to say wee have nothing to doe with him wee have no power over him And the same is prooved in other Scriptures also as Mat. 18. 17. Psal 149. 6. 7 8 9. And the Consequence of the Major Proposition viz. that then members doe engage themselves by Covenant is proved by this reason That Churches have no power over such as have not engaged themselves by Covenant and committed power unto them by professing to be subject to all the Ordinances of Christ amongst them The truth whereof may appeare by two Reasons First Because all Christians have power and right jure divino to choose their owne Officers to whom they commit their soules Act. 6. 1. 14. 23. where the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 imports choosing by Election and so the word is used and translated 2 Cor. 8. 19. he was chosen by the Churches c. It is not ministeriall gifts that makes a man a Minister to every Church nor investeth him with spirituall power over them nor though he dwell amongst them unlesse they call him and he accept of that call And as they have power to choose their Officers so likewise to choose their brethren according to God Rom. 14. 1. Now if they have power to choose their Officers and brethren then none can have power over them as Officers and brethren without their owne consent and whom they never chose nor promised by any Covenant or Engagement to be subject to the Lord. Secondly If the Church should exercise any Act of Church-power over such a man as never entred into Covenant with them suppose to Excommunicate him for whoredome or drunkennesse or the like the man might protest against their Act and their Sentence as Coram non judice and they could not justifie their proceedings if indeed there have passed no Covenant or Engagement between him and them If he shall say you have nothing to doe to passe Sentence or Censure upon me I am none of your Church but of another Church Suppose in Holland in France c. and I am onely here now for Merchandise sake or upon some other occasion what shall they say to stop his mouth if there never passed any Covenant between him and them But Ministers have power over the people by the word of God Heb. 13. 17. 1 Thes 5. 12. 1 Tim. 5. 17. and not by mens engaging themselves by Covenant But what is it that makes men Ministers to such a people Officers to such a Church or maketh them sheepe of my flocke Is it not those Scriptures that makes every man a Pastour or Teacher or Ruler to a people unlesse they call him to that Office and then in so doing they Covenant and Engage themselves to be subject to him in the Lord and then those Scriptures take hold on them One might as well say it is not the Covenanting of a wife to her husband that gives him power over her but the Word of God For as the Word of God commands people to obey their Ministers so it commands wives to be subject to their husbands Ephes 5. 22. And yet all men know a man cannot take this woman for his wife but by Covenant So that if shee once makes her selfe a wife by her owne voluntary Covenant then the word of God takes hold on her and bindes her to doe the duties of a wife but if shee hath made no Covenant the man hath no power over her as her husband neither is shee his wife So if men once make themselves members of such a Church sheepe of such a mans flocke by their own voluntary Covenant then the word of God takes hold of them and bindes them to doe the duties of members to their fellow-brethren and of people to their Pastours or Ministers But if they never chose such a man to be their Minister nor Covenanted to be subject to him in the Lord he then can have no power over them as a Minister unto them because they have right to chose their owne Ministers A sixth Argument may be taken from the distinction that is between members and not
hath separated me from his people v. 3. Besides bringing them into the Church as members and granting them the priviledge of members is promised as a reward and blessing upon this their joyning to the Lord by faith and obedience v. 7. And therefore it is not the same but a distinct thing from it the one being promised as a reward and blessing upon the other Secondly The Lord promiseth that he will make them members of his Church Them will I bring to my holy mountaine and make them joyfull in my house of Prayer Thirdly That among other things requisite to make them members this was one viz. the taking hold of that Covenant which was between the Church of Israel and God v. 6. So that hence we may gather that men may be members of Christ joyned to the Lord by faith and love and yet for the present not be members of the visible Church And that when God is so gracious to true beleevers as to make them members of his visible Church it is requisite that they joyne in Covenant before But might not faith in Christ beleeving in heart on the God of Israel be all the taking hold of the Covenant that is here meant Not so but over and above that here is also meant their open profession of their Faith in the God of Israel and open binding of themselves by Covenant to all such duties of faith and obedience as God required of the Church of Israel and the members thereof Now distinctly take the Answer to this Objection in three or foure particular Propositions First There was a Covenant between the Church of Israel and God Exod. 19. 5 6 7 8. Ezek 16. 8. Deut. 29. 10. c. Secondly This Covenant was mutuall not onely a promise on Gods part to be their God and to take them for his people but also reciprocally on their part to give up themselves unto God to be his people and to doe the dutie of people to their God The Covenant is not meerely to receive from God and promise nothing back againe to him nor doth God binde himselfe therein and leave men at libertie but it is mutuall on both parts as these Scriptures declare Gen. 17. 1. Exod. 197. 8. Deut. 5. 27. 26. 16 17. Hos 2. 23. Zach. 13. 9. Thirdly Hereupon it followes that if men had not promised and also performed in some measure of truth the duties of Faith and obedience unto God they had not taken hold of the Covenant but had discovenanted themselves notwithstanding all the promises of God unto their Fathers or others Thus though God promised Abraham to be a God to him and to his seede in their generations Gen. 17. 7. yet the Ishmaelites and Edomites descending from Abraham were discovenanted by not promising nor performing those duties of Faith and obedience which God required on the peoples part when a Covenant containes promises on Gods part and duties also on mans he doth not take hold of the Covenant that takes one part and leaves another Fourthly To beleeve what God promised in the Covenant for his part and to promise in a private way the duties of obedience on mans part was not sufficient to make these strangers members of the Church but they must doe it openly and in the view of the Church else the Church could have had no warrant to have admitted such into their Fellowship if their faith and obedience had not been visibly professed Exod. 12. 43. 48 2 Chron. 23. 19. And in as much as the Covenant was mutuall when these strangers did manifest their taking hold of the Covenant they manifested and professed both Faith and obedience both that they beleeved what God promised and that they would be obedient to what he required If any should have claimed Church-fellowship saying I beleeve the promises but would not binde himselfe to any duties of Evangelicall obedience this had been a taking hold of the Covenant by the halves a taking of one part of it in seeming and pretence and a leaving of another but it would not have been sufficient to have brought a man into the fellowship of the church Such of the Congregation of Israel as would not come to Hierusalem to enter into Covenant were to be separated from the Church in the dayes of Ezra Ezra 10. 8. And therefore such as being strangers should refuse to enter into it could not be admitted into the Church So that the taking hold of Gods Covenant which is there required to make these strangers members of the Church is a beleeving in heart on the God of Israel and an open profession that they did beleeve and likewise a promise of obedience or subjection unto the God of Israel and an open professing of such obedience and subjection and that is the joyning in Covenant which we stand for before a man can be a member of a Church even an open profession of Faith and of Obedience A third Argument is taken from those Scriptures which shew that men become members by being added to the Church or being joyned to them Act. 2. 47. 5. 13. 9. 26. If men become members of the Church by being added or joyned then joyning in Covenant or professing of subjection to the Gospel or Covenant of God is that whereby a man becomes a member of a Church But the former is true as appeares by the Scriptures forementioned and therefore the latter is true also But all the doubt in this Argument will be concerning the consequence of the Major Proposition but that may be made good by this reason and the confirmation of it viz. that a man cannot be added or joyned to the Church by any other meanes without this joyning in Covenant The truth of which Assertion will appeare by shewing the insufficiency of all other means without this joyning in Covenant and that may be done in Answer to the Objections ensuing When men were added to the Church it may be no more is meant but that God did convert them and worke Faith in their hearts and that converting of them was the adding of them to the Church This cannot be all for first Saul was converted and had faith wrought in his heart and yet he was not at the first received for a member of the Church at Hierusalem though he assayed to be joyned unto them till they were better satisfied in his spirituall estate by the testimony of Barnabas Act. 9. 26 27 28. And those strangers Isa 56. as was said before were joyned to the Lord by being converted and having Faith wrought in their hearts and yet they doe lament it with griefe that they were not joyned as members to the visible Church The Lord hath separated me from his people say they ver 3. The old saying is true concerning the visible Church There are many wolves within and many sheepe without Secondly Those that were joyned were beleevers before they joyned for it is said divers were