Selected quad for the lemma: act_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
act_n	church_n	communion_n	perform_v	3,059	5	9.9633	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A69195	Certaine demandes with their grounds, drawne out of holy writ, and propounded in foro conscientiæ by some religious gentl. vnto the reverend fathers, Richard archbishop of Canterbury, Richard bishop of London, William bishop of Lincolne, Garvase bishop of Worcester, William bishop of Exeter, & Thomas bishop of Peterbourough wherevnto the said gentl. require that it would please their lordships to make a true, plaine, direct, honest and resolute aunswere.	Bancroft, Richard, 1544-1610.	1605 (1605)	STC 6572.5; ESTC S112734	57,418	70

outward forme and maner of acting any service vnto God by our Saviour Christ or his Apostles in prayer preaching the word administring the Sacraments was an vnorderly or an vndecent forme or maner of acting that service before God yea or no If your Lordships answere as the trueth is that the outward maner of acting every kind of service by our Saviour Christ his Apostles was so decently orderly done and so acceptable vnto God as nothing in the outward acting thereof could be more wee then pray your Lordships to resolve vs first what warrant you have out of holy writt to disseyse all the Ministers of the outward acting of the whole worship of God in prayer and administring the Sacraments without a Surplice Secondly what warrant you have from the spirit of Christ to disseyse all the Ministers of the acting of some part of Gods worship in the administration of publike Baptisme without making a crosse vpon the childes forehead and signing him with the signe of the crosse Lastly what approbation you have from the spirit of Christ wholy to disseyse all the sonnes and daughters of God of the acte of sitting in the acte of receiving the Sacrament of the Lordes Supper For in that you have commanded that no Minister when he celebrateth the communiō shall wittingly administer the same to any but to such as kneel you haue by consequence inhibited every one that sitteth to receive the same And thus to establish your owne humane decencie and order of kneeling in the acte of receiving the communion you have disseysed vs of that Euangelicall decencie and order of sitting warranted vnto the Ministers and vnto vs by the example of our Saviour Christ and his Apostles whē as at his last Supper he him self delivered both the Bread and the Wine vnto his Apostles as they sate and not as they kneeled at the Table whereby it appeareth that you looked not vnto the holy one of Israell nor sought vnto the Lord and he yet is wisest But Sirs by your patience it is not required as a thing of meere necessitie as though without kneeling the Sacrament might not lawfully be ministred and received at all but for reverence and conformities sake only it is commanded that the people should kneele Why then by your Lordships favour we demand vnto whom this reverence is yealded and vnto what thing this conformitie is proportioned for that this forme of kneeling is not conformed to the Apostles maner of sitting at the table is evident nether can it be denyed but that this kinde of reverence is fashioned like to that maner of reverence which every catholicke fornicatour by the ordinance of his love the great whore doeth yealde vnto his Idoll when he received his breaden god wherefore we pray your Lordships to resolve vs out of holy Writt whether your conformitie and your reverence of kneeling in the acte of receiving the Sacrament of the Lordes Supper may not rightly be condemned as things not having any due reverence conformitie or proportion with the written Law of God or example of our Saviour Christ and his Apostles before mencioned Besides we demand whether your Lordships had not worthely deserved to have bene much praised and commended by all the churches for that thanks might have bene given by many vnto God for you if so be for reverence vnto the example of our Saviour Christ who did all things well and conformitie to his Apostles ye had commanded the people not to have kneeled in the acte of receiving after the fashion of the catholicke fornicatours who doe all things ill but rather to have sitten after the maner of the Apostles especially sithence betwene this maner prescribed of receiving the Sacrament of the Lordes Supper kneeling the maner of the receiving the Sacrament of Baptisme yea and the word it selfe sitting or standing and not kneeling there can be found no maner of conformitie at all And yet as we deny not when we come to the Font or to the Sermon both before after the Word preached and Baptisme administred but that we ought reverently and vniformely to kneele in prayer thankesgiving prescribed by the booke Even so also we acknowledge when we come to the Lords Table that before and after the deliverie and receiving of the Sacrament we ought to confesse our sinnes to pray and to give thankes reverently and vniformely kneeling vpon our knees But that we should more kneele in the very acte of receiving Bread and Wine at the Ministers hand at the Lords Table then in the name of our children in the very acte of our childrens receiving Water vpon their faces or being dipt in Water wee should kneele at the Font in the time of Baptisme we for our partes must confesse that as yet this mysterie of conformitie and reverence to kneele in the acte of receiving the communion is hidden from vs because we see no more needfulnesse of reverence and conformitie for kneeling to be in the acte of receiving the one Sacrament then to be in the act of receiving the other nor that there is any greater reverence or conformitie of kneeling to bee vsed when the Minister breaketh bread for our bodyes which perisheth at the communion Table then when he breaketh the bread of life for our soules which perisheth not in the Pulpit Nay furthermore what conformitie is there prescribed in the booke of common prayer when in one the same church and in one the same act of receiving the Lords Supper it permitteth the Minister to receive standing and prescribeth the people to receive kneeling or what greater reverence is there required by the sheepe then is to be performed by the sheepheard who should be an example to the flocke The words of the book for the Ministers standing when he receiveth the communion seeme vnto vs to bee so perspicuous and without all maner of ambiguitie as without an absurditie they can not bee construed to command a Minister to kneele for the maner how the Minister of the place or how other Ministers if any be present to helpe him should receive is not prescribed at all vnlesse it be prescribed that he and they should receive standing Nay howsoever in the same book it be said that the Minister shall deliver the communion in both kindes to the people in their hands kneeling neverthelesse it followeth not herevpon the law being not in the negative but in the affirmative that the Minister may not deliver the communion to the people standing or sitting or that the people be exactly bound not to stand or to sitt but to kneele Besides because by the booke of common prayer of the seconde of Edw. 6. wherevnto only as we take it touching ornaments rites and ceremonies our booke hath reference which booke also of Edw. the 6. by the repeale made of the statute of primo of Queene Mary in the first session of this last Parliament is revived because we say

by this booke of common prayer of the second of Edw. 6. kneeling crossing holding vp of handes knocking vpon the breaste and other gestures are to bee vsed at least as every mans devotion serveth without blame We pray your Lordships to suffer vs without blame and danger of your late canons peaceably and quietly to enioy and possesse our libertie That so we may receyve the communion sitting standing or kneeling as everie mans devotion serveth And thus much for our full and perfect answere vnto your questions of disseysing the church of her evangelicall decencie and order and of reverence and conformitie in kneeling in the act of receyving the cōmunion wherevpon we most instantly pray your Lordships that you would be well pleased vpon your second thoughtes to heale your former errours And withall to be content not only to suppresse the vse of your Copes Surplices making of Crosses signing with Crosses tokening with Crosses kneeling c. But also to restore our possession and to give vs livery and seysin of all those decencies conformities and reverend maner of prayer preaching the word receiving and administring the Sacramentes without Copes Surplices Crosses and kneelings whereof the Churches were seysed in the Apostles tymes And which being moderated by the wisdome and authoritie of our Saviour Christ we are most assured can not be but well-pleasing vnto God But Sirs by your patience our Christian Magistrate imposeth them as matters of order according to that forme wherein he found the church at his coming and this his pleasure must commaund may satisfie vs if it should please the King not to commaund them wee for our partes could be well content not to vrge them See see what a dalliance is this in a matter of so high a qualitie and touching the dignitie preheminence of so excellent a person what was your melody yesterday and that in the presence of the King and assemblie of his Nobles was your melody but yesterday we say viz. No ceremonie no Bishop no Bishop no King and can your Lordships to day sitting Iudicially in your Consistory to censure the Ministers for not conformitie thus sudenly change your note and cry openly No commaundement of ceremonies by the King no imposition of ceremonies by the Bishop For is it not as if you should have layde the whole blame vpon the King and have spoken thus No ceremonious King no ceremonious Bishop And yet for all this do not all men know that your Lordships were too too ceremonious and too too great masters of ceremonies before ever the King saw your faces And how then cometh it to passe ceremonies having hitherto ben vpheld by your Lordlines that your Lordlines should not now stande but by ceremonies or how cometh it to passe your Lordlines heretofore being propped vp by the crowne and scepter of our late Queene that your Lordlines should now vphold the scepter crowne of our Christian King This your Lordships gradation therefore made vpon the first day from the not being of a Ceremonie to the not being of a Bishop to the not being of a King And this your protestation made vpon the next day of the being of a Kinge to the being of a ceremonie what ells doeth the one and the other argue and importe but a feare and a suspition if the King should once commande downe your lawes of Ceremonies that the Lawes of your Lordlinesse likewise would of them selves sone after fall to the ground And therefore whether the King did conceive that you might but glose and flatter with your gradation or whether poore simple and playne meaning men might be seduced by your protestation we know not neither is it our purpose to enquire Only we can not but much marveile that each of you professing him selfe to be a Gad and to be a Nathan to be a Seer and to be a Prophet vnto our christian Magistrate should thus protest thus chardge the King to be the only spirit by whom your selves doe speake and the only prophet from whom your selves doe learne Nay what a thinge is this your Lordships prophesying vnto the King in the name of the Lord That your rites and ceremonies are no way contrariant or repugnant but every way agreeable and consonant to the holy word of God and meete to be reteyned aswell for the manner and forme of Gods worship as for edification of the church should notwithstanding openly avow the Kings pleasure and the Kings command to be the fountayne and welspring of your prophesies Nay which is more your selves making for your selves Ceremonious hornes of Iron assuring the king that with the same he should be able to overthrowe and push downe al such as by your Lordships be falsely called puritanes What a thing is this that you should notwithstanding proclayme the kings minde to be as it were the only mould wherein your ceremonies were cast Nay which is more What a thing is this your Lordships assuring to your selves to bee the chiefest of the Lordes Priestes and Levites should notwithstanding put the holy Censores into his Maiesties hand and laye the holy Arcke of the Covenaunt vpon the kinges shoulders to burne incense and to beare it and to carrye it him selfe alone Nay which is more What a thing is this your Lordships by a definitive sentence publickly given read and divulged in your sacred so called Synod having not only iudicially decreed the lawfulnes of ornaments rites and ceremonies but also humbly and professedly desired the same to be cōfirmed by the Kings royal authoritie vnder the broad Seale of England that you should notwithstanding for the execution of your said Decree call to witnes the Kings commaund and the Kings pleasure As though the Kings pleasure and commaund were the only cause and not the effect of your decree and not rather your decree the only cause and not the effect of his Highnes commaund Your second canon by which the same power is iustly as we cōfesse given to our Sovereigne Lord the King in causes ecclesiasticall that the godly Kings had among the Iewes will not serve to excuse you in the making of your canons if any of them be blame worthie for the godly Kings of Iudah never had any authoritie to command what ceremonies should be ordeyned among the lewes Neither did King David neither any other of the godly kings of Iudah doe any thing in building of the Temple in distribution of offices among the Levites or in any manner services performed to the Lord but the same was sent vnto them in writing from the hand of the Lord or by the mouth of the Prophetes or by casting of Lott What soever authoritie then the godly Kings of Iudah had to command ceremonies once made to be observed the same authoritie and none other in matter of ceremonies doeth your canon yeald vnto the King And therfore we beseech your Lordships hereafter to carry such a loyall and conscionable reverence and

by his owne knowledge This people have removed their hearte farr from me and their feare toward me was taught by the precept of man In vaine they worship mee teaching for doctrines the precepts of men From which grounds we demand Whether your Lordships can prove out of holy Writt that there can be a service yealded vnto God where God hath not given a commandement Whether the more a man thinketh to doe any thinge by his owne wisedome and not as God instructeth him the more he doe not prove him selfe to be a vile beast Whether any thing can be acceptable in the sight of God which he never required at our handes Whether God wil be honored according to mans fantasie or rather doth not detest whatsoever is not grounded vpon his worde If your Lordships for the avoyding of these demandes shall deny the feigned making of a crosse and feigned signing of the childe in the forehead with a crosse in the administration of Baptisme to be any service or to be any worship vnto God and therefore neither voluntarie service neither will-worship vnto God then we demaunde for what intent or to what end the making of a Crosse and signinge the forehead of the childe with a crosse is commaunded as a necessarie service to be performed by the Minister in that publique acte of Gods worship for if the forme and manner of Gods worship as you say be established prescribed conteyned in the booke of common prayer if also the ministration of the Sacrament commaunded in that booke be as you say no corrupt superstitious or vnlawfull worship neither conteyning any thing in it that is repugnant to the scriptures how should not the making of a Crosse and signing of the childe in the forehead with a crosse but be a pure a religious a lawfull worship vnto God Besides if making a crosse vpon the childes forehead and signing the forehead of the childe with a crosse be no act of gods worship in the administration of Baptisme Then we demaund how the Minister in foro cōscientiae can be guiltles of taking the holy name of God in vaine when as in the act of Gods service and worship hee doth neither worship nor serve God But Sirs by your patience the Minister in obeying the authoritie of the Church when shee commaundeth him to make a Crosse herein obeyeth God Why then by your Lordships favour wee demaund whether the church doe serve God or doe but please her selfe in that her cōmandment For say we where no commaundement of God there no service vnto God And therefore if the Church by such her commaundement doe but please hir selfe and not serve and please God Then we demaund whether the Church in thus pleasing her selfe and not serving ●od doe not offend God asmuch nay rather more then if shee had commaunded a voluntarie service and a will-worship vnto God But Sirs the acte of making a Crosse and signing the childe in the forehead with a crosse is no parte of baptisme for we graunt that baptisme is perfect and absolute without it But yet by your Lordships favour the question is not whether making of a crosse or signing with a crosse be any parte of baptisme but whether making of a crosse and signing with a crosse be any parte of the continued acte of the outward and divine worship given vnto God in the publick administration of baptisme For if it be a meere traditionall and no divine or religious action or if it be partly traditional and partly divine we still vrge your Lordships to prove vnto vs by the holy scriptures whether it were ever lawfull in any act of Gods worship to act a thing meerely traditionall or partly traditionall and partly divine As for the action of sitting standing kneeling going reading praying preaching and if there be any other Divine naturall or necessarie actions powers or faculties of the body or minde without which no outward service can be yealded vnto God We confesse that the Church with the Magistrates consent may determine of the comely and orderly acting of these things because Aliquo per Deum mandato omnia ea mandantur ne quibus illud mandatum commodè religiosè adimpleri non potest And therefore those divine necessarie and naturall actions before remembred depending vpon or proceeding from the powers and faculties of the bodie or mind being such as without which the outward service of God can not commodiously decently and orderly be accomplished we affirme that they be confirmed vnto vs from generall rules of holy writ And this also may serve for an answere for the having of water a vessell to conteyne water because as water of necessitie is required to the administration of baptisme so must also water we having no waters running through our churches of necessitie be cōteyned in some vessell but as for making a crosse or signing the forehead of the child with a crosse in baptisme because the same by your confession is no part of Baptisme And because also the same is not properly and simply any necessary naturall or divine actiō as without which Baptisme can not be administred Nay because it is such an action as without which Baptisme very decently and orderly may be administred wee pray your Lordships to resolve vs out of holy Writt how the Minister may acte the signe in the outward acte of Gods worship And yet not breake as earst hath bene said either the second commandement by outwardly serving God otherwise then hee hath commanded in his worde or not violate the thirde commandement by taking his holy Name in vaine But by your patience Sirs this making a crosse vpon the childes forehead and this signing him with a signe of the crosse in token c. though the same be no part of Baptisme nor any parte of the outward worship of God nor any naturall nor necessarie action of the body or mind without which Baptisme can not be administred yet is the same a solemnitie an ornament apperteyning vnto Baptisme by the order of the church which ought not to be omitted and left vndone But by your Lordships favour this your Apologie is of no fresher hue nor of any deeper dye then wherewith the great Papistes and fond Canonistes have alwayes bepainted and becouloured their signing their salting their spitteling their oyling their chrismating and their other such like solemnities according to these verses Sal oleum chrisma cereus chrismate saliua Flatus virtutem Baptismatis ista figurant Haec cum patrinis non mutant esse sed ornant And therefore we pray your Lordships to resolve vs by some place of holy Writt whether the Papists and you or either of you be inabled to invent or ordeyne such solemnities ornaments signes figures of crosses to be vsed in the publique administration of Baptisme as never once came in the mind of God to have devised or vsed And so much the rather

crosse is a token of these invisible spirituall graces then againe we pray your Lordships to resolve vs out of holy Writt whether God did ever ordeine any invisible signes to bee invisible tokens of invisible graces yea or no And if God did never ordeine such signes then we demand what authoritie man hath to ordeine such signes But if your Lordships shall answere negatively viz that the invisible signe of the crosse imaginarily pretended to bee made by the Minister is not a token of these inward and spirituall graces then wee demande whether your Lordships with your owne mouthes pronounce not that thing to be false which the booke of common prayer commandeth every Minister with his lips to proclaime to be true But Sirs by your leave the Church hath power from Christ to ordeyne rites and ceremonies and the Magistrate may command that all things be done decently and according to order in the time of prayer and administration of Sacraments Yea and so say we too Nay wee say more that the Christian Magistrate knowing any thing to be done vndecently and vnorderly shall sinne against God if by his authority he take not order for reformation of such disorder but by your Lordships favour the question is not whether the Church may ordeine Rites and Ceremonies or whether the Christian Magistrate may command such things as by the Apostles doctrine are to be done that the same be done decently and orderly but the question is whether all rites and ceremonies indefinitlie and without limitation approved by the Church and commaunded by the Magistrate to bee decent and to be in order be in deed and without contradiction absolutely decent and absolutely in order And for this cause and in this regarde only both by ministers and people without any search or inquisitiō of their agreeablenes with holy writt absolutely to be receyved as if the same by some holy oracle were immediatly sent vnto them from God For be it supposed that some rites and ceremonies ordeyned by the Church and commaunded by the Christian Magistrate be of the nature of things either vnlawfull or inexpedient or that they be vaine idle vnnecessarie and vnprofitable things in these cases we pray your Lordships to resolve vs out of holy Writt whether the Apostles rule of having all things to be done decently and according to order in the Church cease not For how should those things be done decently and orderly in the Church for the which the Church hath no warrant that the same should be done at all The Apostle then having taught the Corinthians that the thinges which he wrote were the commaundements of the Lord and concluding that all things treated of by him in the former partes of that chapter touching the right vse of spirituall giftes are to bee done decently and in order we demaund whether your Lordships from this apostolicall rule can religiouslie conclude any otherwise then thus All the commaundements and all the spirituall giftes of the Lord are to be done and vsed in the Church decently and orderly But the wearing of a Surplice in tyme of prayer and administration of Sacramentes the making of a Crosse vpon the childes forehead c. And kneeling in the act of receyving bread and wine at the Lordes Table bee spirituall giftes or at leastwise be the commaundements of the Lord Therefore these things are to be done decently and in order But now if your Lordships beeing not able to strengthen your minor proposition by any place of holy Writt shall make the same answere which the Romanistes frame in all like cases for the Authoritie of their church namely that the Ministers and people ought preciselie to observe and doe these thinges if not propter Authoritatem Apostolicam yet propter authoritatem Ecclesiae seu Christiani Magistratus sic statuentis Then doe your Lordships but as they doe even runne from the Rock and buyld vpon the Sand yea and besides flee from the poynte in question making the Church and Christian Magistrate not only to be preservers but commanders of all Evangelicall decencie and order And then might not this consequution and conclusion infallibly be true What soever thinges by the Church with consent of the Christian Magistrate be or shal be appointed for Evangelicall decencie and order in the Church the same without all exception and challendge of any vndecencie or disorder must and ought to be receyved of every member of the Church for decent and orderlie thinges But all such and such things by the Church with consent of the Christian Magistrate be appointed c. Therefore all such and such things must ought without all exception be receyved c. Yea Sirs and is not this a good consequution and doeth not this conclusion necessarilie followe For who shall be Iudge of Evangelicall decencie and order if not the Church and Christian Magistrate alone Before we answere vnto this question wee denie your proposition because the same seemeth vnto vs to be rather an inversion then a true conversion of the Apostles rule viz. Let all things be done decently and in order The meaning whereof according to the Analogie of the place we take to be this namely that all thinges or what soever thinges are to be done in the Church that the same thinges ought to bee done decently and in order But what agreement we pray you hath this rule with your proposition or what coherence hath your proposition with this rule for by what arte can you frame this your proposition vpon the Apostles foundation This your proposition wee saye namely all things or whatsoever things the Church with consent of the Christian Magistrate shall authorize for decencie and order the same are all decent and orderly things Indeed if this your propositiō could be proved true by any doctrine drawne from any other place of holy Writt we would easilie graunt the church with consent of the christian Magistrate having commanded Copes Surplices Crosses kneelings c. to be vsed in the church that this the Apostles rule did binde all those to kneele to make crosses and to weare Copes and Surplices not vngaynely disorderly or slovenly but comely hansomely and netely but seeing your proposition is false and can not by any other place of holy scripture be proved true you have drawne in the Apostles rule as it were by the hayre and pluckt it in as it were by the heeles to a wrong purpose and forced it to a wronge sense Furthermore because these wordes decencie and order mencioned in your proposition carrie a double sense we pray your Lordships to resolve vs whether by these wordes decencie order you meane simplie such a decencie and such an order as for the allowance whereof playne and evident testimonies may be founde in holy Writt that the same decencie and order is pleasing vnto God or whether you meane such a decencie and order only as for the which we having no other warrant

learning non solent quae superabundant vitiare scripturas yet by your Lordships favour your c. swelleth to high and gulleth the passages of a softe spirit overmuch your argument also of christian Magistracy at the least three times already vrged is in this place more then superabundant as amounting above the third vnto a fourth degree of comparison But to the poyntes And first because as earst hath bene said it was the decree and supplication of your Synod that begate this commandement and not this commandement that travayled and brought your Synodall decree and supplication to the birth touching which your Synodall decree for the vse of these ornaments rites ceremonies by the weak what els is there to be added then that we deny againe what in effect more then once twice we have in this behalfe denied before namely granting these thinges in their owne nature to be indifferent and that they may be vsed in the service of God by them that be strong in faith have knowledge of their indifferencie neverthelesse we deny that by any Decree of the Church they may be appointed to be vsed by the weake and them that have no knowledge of their indifferencie For this we have learned of the nature of things indifferent if the cōscience be strong that the things be good if the conscience be weake that they bee evill not in regarde of their owne nature but in regarde of the conscience of him that iudgeth them to be evill For as it is not meate it selfe but the vse of meate wherevnto the Apostle would have men sticke so is it not apparell a Crosse or a Ceremonie wherevpon the servantes of Christ are to cast their eyes that they may not be reprehended by their consciences rightly guyded for the vse of that thing which they vse And how should a conscience bee rightly guyded in the thing which he vseth vnles he have grounde out of Gods worde for the thinge which he vseth But he hath you will say a commaundement of God to obey the higher powers in the vse of thinges indifferent This is true in deed saye we if they having for the guyde of their consciences the holy worde of God shall iudge the thinges and the vse of the things for the service wherevnto they bee commaunded to be indifferent but they being not fully perswaded in their myndes both of the indifferencie of the thinges and of the vse of the things in that service wherevnto they bee commaunded how can your Lordships proove that in this case the Church may decree and the Magistrate command them to do an act in the doing whereof they shall commit sinne yea and which they can by no meanes avoyde if in doing the thing commanded they stand in doubt For he that doubteth is condemned in that he doth because he doeth it not of faith And what soever is not of faith is sinne Wherefore because no canon nor decree of the Church can cleanse a mans conscience of the weaknes of faith or poure strength into the same that he sinne not we affirme that every decree and canon of your Synod which giveth an occasion of offence and emboldeneth the weak in faith to sinne by the vse of these rites and ceremonies in the worship of God is a Canon and is a Decree conteyninge matter in the substance of it contrary and repugnant to the doctrine of the Apostle And that therefore it is no sinne for any brother weake in fayth not to obey the same though at the request of your Synod it hath pleased our Christian Magistrate to inioyne him therevnto because the ground-worke of your Decree being sandy the buylding of the Magistrate can not surely and firmely stande This your Lordships argument therefore of the lawfull vse of indifferent things by commandement of the christian Magistrate for orders sake is but a begging of the point in question For wee hold that no church nor christian Magistrate can decree or impose any rites and ceremonies being relickes monuments or memorialls of idolatrie to be vsed no not for orders sake in the worship of the true God because the vse of all relickes monumentes and memorialles of idolatrie in divine worship is not a thing not only not indifferēt but a thing in all respectes meerely and absolutely vnlawfull And therefore it importeth your Lordships to proove vnto vs by some holy Writt the contrary of that which we affirme namely that the vse of all Relickes Monumentes and Memorialles of Idolatrie as thinges indifferent for orders sake may be decreed by the Church and inioyned by the Christian Magistrate in the worship of God what we have alleadged out of holy Writt for the proofe of our generall negative your Lordships have seene and read And now we wayte and exspect that you would produce your stronge reasons for the proofe of your generall affirmative Our generall negative is this No Reliques Monumentes or Memorialls of Idolatrie may lawfully be decreed by the Church or inioyned by the Christian Magistrate to be vsed by the ministers and servants of Christ as indifferent rites and ceremonies for orders sake in the worship of God And if none Then not your Copes Surplices Crosses c. Your Lordships affirmation All Reliques Monumentes and Memorialls of Idolatrie may lawfullie be decreed by the Church and inioyned by the Christian Magistrate to be vsed by the Ministers servants of Christ as indifferēt rites ceremonies for orders sake in the worship of God And if all why not then a Friers coule for an Archbishop a Monkes hood for a Bishop a shaven crowne for a Deane and a shaven chinne for an Archdeacon But now alas alas to adde and to speake but one worde touching the vse of these rites c. appointed by your Synod for orders sake may not we and all the Churches take vp a complaynt and lamentably cry saying Alas alas what Was it not possible for your sacred Synod assembled as you say in the name of Christ but that the same must decree popish and Idolatrous rites and ceremonies to be still continued in the church for orders sake Or was it not possible for your sacred Synod assembled as you say in the name of Christ but that the same must needes devise and decree such rites and ceremonies for orders sake as by the vse whereof your weake brethren the servantes of Christ can not be but tempted and captiously insnared Or was it not possible for your Synod to have vsed their iudgement but to the perill of the soules of their brethren but to put occasions of falling and of stumbling before their brethren But by your patience Sirs we abhorre the popish pollutions of the Surplice of the Crosse and of the Idolatrous kneeling to a piece of bread And as we take not our garmentes rites and ceremonies from the papistes but from their betters so we professe the detestation of their superstitious abuses and restore them to their ancient

integrity But by your Lordships favour all men have not knowledge of the Idoll as you have All mens knowledge among vs doth not edifie but by their knowledge many men be puffed vp All men among vs professe not a detestation of their pollutions All men doe not knowe those betters from whom as you say they were taken Neither lastly doe all men vnderstande what that ancient integritie is whereof you speake The Papistes you know as they daily commit fornication with that great whore so doe they greatly delite and much solace them selves to see their minionly Priestes attired in the vnchast colours of their wanton paramoure Nay with great insolencie and ostentation they vaunt that Crosses Surplices c. are to be received and vsed not as things indifferent but as necessarie parts of Gods divine worship The Atheistes as they neither embrace the doctrine nor reverence the person of the Minister of Christ much lesse doe they regard from whence ministeriall apparell originally came Only if they live vnder an ordinary who glorieth to be a ceremonie master they can then find witt and opportunitie and agilitie and nimblenes ynough to make vse of these ceremonies as by them to worke mischief against their Godly Minister if at any time them selves be reproved for their drunkennes whoredome vsurie swearing poperie and such like But if any of them being of the age of 60. 70. or 80. yeares shal be willed by their honest ordinarie to returne home and to learne of their Minister the Catechisme before they prosecute their presentment for the not wearing of a Surplice in this case rather then they wil be religiously taught the principles of godlines at their Ministers hand they force not for xxv yeares space together to bee wholy silent Liking in the meane while the not wearing of a Surplice well ynough And as for our partes and others of the Religion we doubt very much whether your Lordships be able to prove that the Surplice the crosse in Baptisme or kneeling in the act of receiving the Communion were by their first originall of any integritie for an orderly or comely vse of outward divine service or worship as now they be vsed yea or no For though now they bee vrged as decent and comely signes and ornaments to the forme of Gods worship yet if at the beginning they were not for this end and purpose drawne directly or by consequence from some expresse commandement of God but were meerely the devises inventions of men then can we not assure our selves that they be restored to their ancient integritie For how should their originall bee of ancient integritie when they had beginning not from the will of God but from the witt of man not from the Well of life but from the pitt of death when they were not pure but corrupt therefore without integritie For which cause we are to beware least we be taken in a snare by them provoking the Lord to anger through the workes of our owne hands And howsoever these ceremonies be taken from men better affected to the Gospell then be the Papistes neverthelesse seeing servants be they never so young are not to be guided by their fellow servants be they never so old without knowledge of their Lord Masters pleasure first declared vnto them by his Prophets or Apostles we pray your Lordships to prove vnto vs out of holy Writt that these ceremonies hold their originall from God For if they be not according to the old way which is the good way and wherein we are bidd to stand and to behold and to aske after it namely the Testimonie which is bound vp and the Law which is sealed vp among Gods Disciples then shall the Pastours offend for running about so much to change their wayes going after things that doe not profit yea if they doe not according to this word they may iustly be reproved because their is no light in them The ancienty then of your ceremonies let the same be as ancient as possibly ye can devise yet in respect of the ancient of dayes and of him that inhabiteth the eternitie they shal be but novelties and the Author of them but a novelist For as this saying in the Schoole of reason is true omne magnum tum est paruum cum sit aliquid maius so is this saying also in the same Schoole true omne vetus tum est novum cum sit aliquid vetustius Yea and the holy Scriptures teach vs to call those things new whatsoever man inventeth be the errour never so old They have saith the holy Ghost offered vnto Devills not vnto God but to gods whom they knew not new gods that came newly vp whom their Fathers feared not And in an other place they are pronounced to be accursed when they turne after other gods which they have not known whereby also is reproved the vanitie and fondnes of those men which leave that which is certeine to follow that which is vncerteine If the Apostle then the first and most ancient father of all the children whom he begate with the word of the Gospell and the planter of all the Churches among the Gentils never knew those or any the like rites ornaments or ceremonies much lesse never knew them to be for any decent and orderly forme of Gods worship in any of the churches which he begate and which he planted it must needes follow as wee conceave that the children of the Church who devised and appointed these rites and ceremonies for an orderly and decent forme of Gods worship in the ages succeeding the Apostles left the ancient integritie together with the certaine and single forme of Gods worship setled in the Apostolicall churches without any ministeriall apparrell crossings or kneelings in the act of receiving the communion And so following their owne hearts became Novelistes vnto the Apostles in these vncerteine and new found ceremonies Neither for the poynt in question is it materiall whether they were children next and immediatly succeeding the Apostles yea or no For so soone as they declined from that integritie simple maner of Gods worship and from that certeyntie wherein the Apostle left the Churches even so soone was their vncerteyne and newly start vp forme of Gods worship corrupt and impure For when the Lord hath once spoken wordes and doeth add no more thereby we are taught by his example to lay our handes vpon our mouthes to bee content with his word and to add nothing of our owne Yea and we bee warned to beware least our heartes deceyve vs and least we turne aside by devisinge foolish inventions according to our owne fantasies Wherefore your Lordships argument of such ancientie and of such integritie of these ceremonies as declineth from that ancient and in al poyntes and qualities certeyne and vpright forme of Gods worshippe practised without Copes Surplices Crosses and kneelings in the acte of receyving the communion