of daunger as they did for not falling downe as others did in the place ANSWERE 1. In the preaching of the truths of the Gospell no Idolatrous act is performed as there vvas 2. It must be knowne that approbation is properly in the heart and only the manifestation of approbation in outvvard gesture speech or writing Both the one and other are euill if the thing be euill But heare it must be considered that I may in cases do the same outvvard act vvhich others do and vvherein they manifest their approbation of idolatrie or other euill and yet I be free in trueth and deed from all such approbation and stain thereof The levves after Christs death and the taking avvay 2. Col. 15. and abolishing of the legall ordinances thereby circumcised their infants and frequentled the temple for purification and other mosaicall ceremonies as parts of Gods vvorshippe and still remaining of deuine institution Paul also circumcised Timothy entred the Temple for purification and yet did not approue any manner of vvay of the errour and euill in the Ievvish worshippers To come nearer home It is the custome in Popish countries that all that passe by a crosse must in honour of it leaue it on the right hand as they may by reason of the placeing of it comming or going Now if I ride vvith others that vvay I may do the thing that they doe and keep companie vvith them yet not honour the crosse as they do It is besides the former the manner that such as so passe a crosse should in further honour put of their hatt to the said crosse But if I do this also I plainly manifest an approbation of the superstition The reason of the difference is because I haue another iust cause to do the former-thing namely to keep on vvith my company but haue no just cause of the latter But now suppose that at the very place vvhere the crosse stands I meet vvith some friend or other to vvhom I ovve that eiuill respect of vncouering my head I may then do that lavvfully also vpon the former ground So if I had just and reasonnable cause either of comming or standing by the Magistrate to vvhom I ovve this ciuill honour vvhilst he is performing some act of Idolatrie in the streetes or els vvhere I might vpon the same ground go or stand vncouered by him vvithout just blame To applie these things to the objectiō moued seing no other cause could reasonnable be conceaued of the Kings commaunding such a thing or of their doing the thing at his commaundement saue the vvorshipping of the Idoll they in so doing could not haue escaped the just blame of Idolatrie But now I haue just causes more then one of my hearing and amongst the rest mine edification and therefore cannot be chalenged therein to approue of the ministers flate or standing Besides that as I formerly answered heare is no Idolatrous act performed 4. OBIECTION He that hears them preach hears them as Ministers of the church of England and as sent by the bishops and so in hearing them hears and receaue them that send them according to that of our Sauiour Luk. 9. 16. he that hears you hears me Iohn 13. 10. and he that despiseth you despiseth me and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent mee ANSWERE I graunt the former part of the objection and account the denying of it a point of familisme seing the officers of publique states in the executing of their offices are to be esteemed according to the publique lavves and orders of those states and not according to any vnder hand either course or intention by them selues or others They are heard as they preach and preach as ministers of the Bishops sending and of the parris hes receauing to vvhich they are sent by them And so I professe I heare them as the ministers of the Bb sending and of the Parishes sent to but not as my ministers either sending or sent to except I be of those parishes or at least in ecclesiasticall vnion vvith them Euery one vvhether of false a church or no church or excommunicated frō the church that hears me hears me as the Pastor of the church vvhich I serue but not as his Pastour I suppose nor in vvay of any his spirituall communion vvith mine office of Pastourshippe Secondly by hearing receauing there Christ meanes properly the hearking too beleuing and obeying the doctrine taught by the Apostles vvhich many despised vnto vvhom he apposeth the former that heard it Now the ministers in the parishes haue not the doctrines of the Gospell from the Bishops as they haue their office but from God in his vvord and so farre forth as a man hears that is hearkens too and receaues them by receauing it he so farre hearkes too receaues Christ. 5. OBIECTION Yet such as heare them haue communion which their office of ministery vvhat in them lyes ANSWERE That is they haue no communion at all vvith it if it lie not in them to haue any as it doth not If I hold vp my hand as high as I can I touch heauen vvith my finger vvhat in me lies Do I therefore at all touch it If such think to haue or that they haue any such communion it is their errour and ignorance but makes not the thing to be the more then if they thought not so 6. OBIECTION Is there then no communion at all betweene the teacher and taught vvhat profit the comes thereby such hearing ANSWERE The church officer feeds the flock and church ouer vvhich he is set Act. 20. 28 as the object of his ministery Such as come in being not in church-vnion therevvith heare him so doing And as a stander-by hearing me talke to or dispute vvith another though I speak not a vvord to him may reap as much and more fruit by my speche then he to vvhom I directed it so may and doth it often come to passe vvith him that hears the minister feed the flock vvhose minister he is though he be no part of it He may reap fruit by hearing him feed his flock or seing him minister baptisme to any member thereof Heare is communion only in the effects of the truthes taught It vvere vsurpation in any to pertake in a church priueledge vvhich the office of ministerie is that were not in a church-state first And so if hearing simply imported church-church-communion none but church-members might lavvfully heare 7. OBIECTION In the true church indeed is order that the church couenant go before church communion but not so in the false ANSWERE In the true church there may be vnlawfull church-church-communiō without a preceeding church-couenant as vvell as in the other to vvit if an act of communion properly passe betvveen the church and him that is no church-member as for example participation in the sacraments But hearing being not properly an act of communion cannot import communion necessarily vvith the one or other nor othervvise then according
A TREATISE OF THE LAWFVLNES OF HEARING OF THE Ministers in the church of England penned by that learned and Reverent deuine M r. Iohn Robinsz late Pastor to the English church of God in Leyden Printed according to the Copie that was found in his studie after his decase and now published for the common good TOGETHER WITH A LETTER written by the same Authore and approued by his church vvhich followeth after this Treatise IOHN 7. 24. Iudge not according to pearance but Iudge righteous Iudgment Printed Anno 1634. THE PRINTERS TO the Christian Reader CHristian Reader How euer the verie naming of the Author of this following Treatise vvere sufficient reason for vs to publish this same vnto the vvorld in regard of those large abilities aboue many others vvhich the Lord had bestowed vpon him and in regard he being now at rest with the Lord and so hauing finished long since his course in this his pilgrimage vve cannot expect to haue any more vse of his helpe this waye and although it were great pittie that such a vvorke as this should be concealed for so long time considering the worke vvas perfected and vvritted by his owne hand and so found after his death which is nine yeares since in his studie yet haue we thought it good all this while to conceale it in respect of that desire vve had to the peace of that church whereof the Author of this Treatise vvas for so many yeares a Pastor In regard vve did perceiue that some though not manie vvere contrariâ— minded to the Authors judgement expressed in this Trtatise And this vve judge to be a sufficient reason of our so long delaying of publishing this Treatise to the world Yet to our griefe vve haue now just cause to put this same on foote For as vvhen a citie is in danger of enemies to be surprized it is then high time to take vp all those vvarrlike Munitions vvhich happily before that time vvere cast aside and not regarded that so they may the better maintaine their citie and the priuiledges of it against their enemies so vve judge it as necessarie if not more vvhen vve see the enemies of Gods church to incroach vpon the priuiledges of the same especiallie vvhen they ayme at the vtter ruinating of it that then it is high time for vs to defende the cause of Christ and it vvas the vvisdome of Iehojada the High Priest perceiuing the malice of Athalia seeking to destroy the vvhole seed of Iehosaphat to hide Ioash the right heyre of the Kingdome and vvhen he sawe a fit opportunitie then to reueale him and make him knowne so vve vvho haue obserued Athalias spirit in part to be in some vvho haue laboured to assume the power to themselues vvhich is proper to the church and so Diotrephes like vvould cast out vvhom they please and retayne vvhom they thought good and rather then they vvill be hindred in this their attempt they vvill labour to rent that church in pieces in vvhich they haue liued for manie yeares together and that vve may not seeme to accuse them of any thing vvithout just reason vve desire the Christian Reader and themselues to consider this that followes First their schisme or as they call it their leauing of the church doth arise vpon this occasion to wit that 2. which vvere members of the same church with them hauing vpon some occasion heard some of the Ministers in England preach and it coming to the knowledge of some of these vvho haue now made this rent the church they vvould presently haue these persons dealt vvithall as for sinne and if they did not repent after dealing they vvould haue the church to proceed to excomunicate them ipso facto vvhich the church not willing to consent vnto these men could not be satisfied but they vvould haue their owne vvilles done or els they vvould rent from the church vvhich proceeding of theirs if it vvere approued of and followed no church could long continue together in peace for vvhat these foure or fiue men haue done that may any other man doe so that if any man do conceiue any of his brethren to vvalke in any such sinne vvhich he judges doth deserue excomunication if the church will not thereto consent he may rent himselfe from the same Although the Author of this Treatise haue taught them otherwise to vvit that if the church see not that to be sinne vvhich I see to be a sinne I hauing informed the church thereof according to my place I haue disscharged my dutie and the sinnes lyes vpon the church if it be a sinne and not vpon me but it seemes these men do looke for that in the church on earth vvhich is onely to be found in heauen for themselues haue affirmed and that before diuers witnesses that there is no sinne small or great that is to borne vvithall and that the verie speaking of a vvord through fraylty about worldly businesses vpon the Sabbaoth day should haue as seuere a sentence as he that shall openly prophanely transgresse against the 4. Commandement the verie naming of with their opinion is sufficient to discouer their weaknes that we may yet further discouer these mens folly to the world more fully we will shew you how contrary they are to themselues in this their iudgment for as they say and do affirme that there is no sinne vvhich is to be borne withall in the church yet themselues or at least the chief of them do practise the contrarie as for example one in stead of manie may serue the turne The chiefe of Author of this trouble doth hold and so hath for manie yeares together to vvit that it is vnlawfull for the members of one church to haue communion with another church and yet not vvithstanding this his judgement he can beare vvith one vvho hath contrary to this his judgement practised and so professeth still to do vpon occasion and yet not vvithstanding his so practizing and so professing he is receiued among them and is their chiefe if not their onely Teacher which they haue So that vve may here easily perceiue that though this man doth vse Iehu's peace against the sinnes of others with whom he desires to be alienated yet he can beare vvith as great sinnes in others in his judgement vvith vvhom he desires to vvalke we could shew manie more reasons to proue his partialitie but then vve should exceed the bonds of an Epistle onely vve desire to giue the Reader to take notice of those two things First that this practize of hearing the Ministers of the church of England is not against any Article of faith vvhich is by this church professed vvhereof the Author of this Treatise vvas a Pastor it being no Act of Church Communion for if hearing simplie vvere an Act of Communion then euerie hâ—â—â—tique or Atheist or whatsoeuer he were that should come into the church of God should haue Communion vvith them vvhich if it vvere true as this
following Treatise proues the contrarie then it vvere good for euery church that will auoid communion with profane men to meete in priuate and then to shut their dore when their own compagnie is meet together else I cannot see how they can auoid hauing communion with wicked men to wit if beare hearing be an acte of communion Secondly as this hearing is not against any Article of their faith so likewise it was not in the iudgement of the church esteemed as a thing that might not be borne withall The letter you shall find after the Treatise this may appeare by a copy of a letter which we haue heer following published where the church in the counsell which they giue to the church of London do sufficiently make it appeare that their iudgement did manifestlie differ from those which now haue made this breach and which is well to be marked by the reader how that the church when this letter was write enioyed the Pastor and their company was fiue tymes greater then it was when this breach was made because these men in his their error are vvilling to retraine it and not being able to make any sufficient reply to the answere made in this Treatise to their obiections though the manuscript therof hath bene in their hands for many yeares yet because they will find somthing to say more then others haue done heretofore though of lesse force therefore they haue ioyned some new obiections which both the seducer and the seduced do thinke are vnanswerable therfore it will not be amisse for vs to propound them and to giue some answere to them that so if their stomachs serue they may reply to all at once First they obiect and say that we hold the church of England to be a false church and the Ministers thereof to be Antichristian and yet we go thither to worship the true God Before we answere directly to this objection we shall intreate the Reader and themselues to consider of this that followes First A church may be said to be false in diuers respects and according to those respects vve are to haue diuers Considerations thereof as first a church may be said to be false in respect of outward order to vvit vvhen a church is gathered together not according to the rule of Christ neither in their outward gouernement do they conforme therevnto now this church cannot be said to be the church of Christ being thus erected and gouerned contrary to the rule of Christ but is false and Antichristian and yet notwithstanding the faith professed by this church and the doctrines taught in this church may be sound and according to God Secondly a church may be false not onely in respect of outward order but likewise in respect of faith and doctrine Now to this latter vve counsell no man to go because from thence no good can be expected and that is the esteeme vve haue of the church of Rome But now as in a true church in respect of outward order there may be manie false doctrines taught so in a church that is false in respect of outward order there may be manie sound and seasonable truths taught and this esteeme vve haue of the preaching in England Namelie that the doctrine there taught according to the Articles of their faith is sound and the effects of it hath appeared in the vvorking of faith in the hearts of manie thousands For the outward order or meeting there as a church that concernes themselues and those that are in vnion vvith that church estate but not all that heare them Now that worshipping of God which consists in hearing his word is warrantable for vs to doe in England we proue it by this argument That preaching which ordinarily begets men to the faith of Christ may lawfully be heard But the preaching of many Ministers in the Church of England hath and doth ordinarily beget men to the faith of Christ. Therefore the preaching of many Ministers in England may lawfully be heard The first part of this sillogisme is proued out of Rom 10. where the Apostle telling what is the ordinary vvay God vses to beget men to the faith of Christ telles vs it comes by hearing of the vvord of God preached if faith comes by hearing the vvord of God preached to vvit if that be the outward meanes then there is no question but that a man may heare such preaching and any man may blush for shame that shall deny this so that the major part of the argument is cleare And for the Minor parte they cannot deny it no more then a man at noon day can deny the sunne to shine for if any man make question whether faith comes ordinarily by the preaching and hearing in England it is a great question vvether they euer had faith or no yet because some are so grosse as to deny this we will therefore proue the contrarie by this Argument That preaching and hearing which makes them which were altogether carnall and so not capable of a church-estate to become saints so fit for a church-estate That preaching must needs beget men to the faith But the preaching and hearing in England made them that were vnfit carnall to become saints and so fit members to the true church which were not so before Therfore the preaching in England and hearing the same doth beget men to the faith That the preaching and hearing in England hath done this Witnesse the church of Leyden and of Amstelredam Let them tell vs where they receiued their faith if they say they had it not till they ioyned in these bodies how could they then be true to their owne grounds that none but visible Christians are fit matter for the church vvhereas none can be so esteemed except in the iudgement of charitie we iudge them to haue true faith But some of these that haue made this diuision haue not denyed but faith is wrought by the preaching and hearing in England and yet which is wonderfull contradiction they say it is not the vvord of God as it is there preached so that it seemes there is something besides the vvord of God which is an ordinary meanes to beget men to the faith and there is another vvord besides Gods vvord that vvill do it the like absurditie hath sildome bene heard from any that professe them selues to be Christians and that they may not seeme to say this vvithout some reason marke the reason that they bring to proue it say they we do deny that to be the vvord of God as it is there preached by a false Ministry though the vvord it selfe be of God yet as it is by them preached it is none of Gods vvord so Gods vvord here stands at fast and loose it is Gods vvord and it is not Gods vvord as if they should say it is Gods word if M r. Canne shall preach it but if another that is a Minister in England preach the same it is none of Gods vvord so
refuse the fellovvship of churches in that vvhich is good for any vveaknes in them of one sort or other And this vve haue so plainlie and plentfullie commended vnto vs both by the Prophets yea by Christ himselfe in the Iewish church and Apostles and Apostolicall men in the first christian churchs in which many errours euils of all kindes vvere more then manifest and the same oft times both so farre spread and deeply rooted as the reforming of them vvas rather to be vvished then hoped for as that no place is left for doubting in that case by any vvho desire to follovve their holy steps in faith tovvards God and charitie tovvards men and effectuall desire of their ovvne edification The objections of the former sort follovv 1. OBIECTION There is danger of being seduced and misledd by the errours taught in the astemblies ANSWERE 1. We must not loose the benefite of many main trueths taught Matth 5. chap 23. for daunger of some few errours 2. Cor 11. 19. ◠Ioh. 4. 1. 3. Speciallie in lesser matters Let such read Parker of church policy lib. 1. c. 39 This vvere to feare the deuill more then to trust God 2. There vvere in the Ievvish church in Christs time and in divers of the Apostolicall churches aftervvards more greater errours taught then are in any or ail the churches of England of vvhich also there are not a fevv vvhich if their ministers did as fully and faithfully teach and practize all trueths as they keepe themselues carefully from errours might compare in this busines vvith any reformed church in Europe 3. This exception hath its vvayt against the hearing of Priests and Iesuites speciallie by the vveaker sort and lesseable to discerne of things that differ But not against many ministers of the church of England 2. OBIECTION He that in any thing pertakes with that church in vvhich sinnes knowne are suffred vnreformed pertakes in all the sinnes of that church as he that sweares by the Alter sweares by the offrings vpon it vvhich it sanctifies Matth. 23. 19. 20. ANSWERE I partake not in the sinnes of any how great or manifest soeuer the sinnes bee or hovv neer vnto me soeuer the persons bee except the same sinnes either be committed or remain vnreformed by my fault Othervvise Christ our Lord had been invvrapped in the guilt of a vvorld of sinnes in the Ievvish church vvith vvhich church he communicated in Gods ordinances liuing and dyeng a member therof If my brother sinne a scandelous sinne and I by just order make complaint thereof to the church I haue done my duty It appertaines to the church to excommunicate him if he repent not but not to me except Popelike I vvould make my selfe the church I am guitty of the euill in the common wealth familie for the redressing vvherof I do not my duty in my place vvhich if I do in the church as I can I am free from the sinnes done and suffred there vvhich sinnes and euils I can no more be said to suffer vvanting povver to reforme them then to suffer it to blovv or rain because I hinder it not But the proofe of the assertion from Matth. 13. is of admirable deuise Hovv doth the church sanctifie the sinne of the sinner as the Alter doth the offering of the offerer The Alter makes that to become actually an offering or holy gift vvhich before vvas not an offering actually but onely gold silver or other materiall So doth not the church make any mans sinne to become his sinne vvhich it vvas not before but onely suffers the sinne that vvas But to strain the strings of this imagined proportiō to make them meet and to suppose the church in a sence to be as the Alter yet this only follovves therevpon that as hee vvho partakes vvith the Alter in the vpholding of the offring partakes vvith the offring so he that partakes vvith the church in the vpholding of any euill hath his part in the euill also And this I graunt vvillingly but deny as a most vain imagination that euerie one that partakes vvith a church in things lavvfull joynes vvith it in vpholding the things vnlavvfull to be found in it Christ our Lord joyned vvith the Ievvish church in things lavvfull and yet vpheld nothing vnlavvfull in it 3. OBIECTION But this course of hearing vvill offend weak brethren not persuaded of the lawfullnes of it ANSWERE 1. It vvill offend more and many of them vveakere and that more greeuously if it be not performed Secondly It is an offence taken and not giuen seeing the thing is in it selfe good in its kinde commaunded by God and in that perticuler by men in authoritie and directlie tending to mine edification and not like vnto eating of flesh or drinking of vvine or the like things of indifferent nature and left to my free libertie to vse or not to vse And these are the principall objections vpon the former ground they vpon the latter follovv There is in the hands of manie a threatise published by a man of note containing certain reasons to proue it vnlawfull to heare or haue spirituall communion with the present ministerie of the church of England This hath been ansvvered but indeed sophisticallie and in passion Neither hath the ansvverer much regarded vvhat he said or vnsaid so he might gainsay his adversarie With that ansvvere vvas joyned an other directed to my selfe and the same doubled pretending to proue Publique communion vpon priuat but not pressing at all in the body of the discourse that consequence but proceeding vpō other grounds and in trueth consisting of a continued equivocation in the terms publique licence gouernment ministry and the like dravvne to another sence then either I intended them or then the matter in question vvill permit Whereas he that vvill refute another should religiously take hold to his aduersaries meaning and if in any perticuler it be not so plainly set dovvne should spell it as it vvere out of his vvords But it is no new thing euen for learned and godly men to take more then lavvfull libertie in dealing vvith them against vvhom they haue the aduantage of the times favouring them like the vvind on their backs But God for bidde I should follovv them heerin I vvill on the contrarie vse all plaines and simplicity as in the sight of God that so I may make the naked trueth appeare as it is to the christian readers eye vvhat in me lieth And for the treatice mentioned it must be obserued hovv both in the title and body of the booke the authour confounds as one hearing of and haueing spirituall communion vvith the ministery c. vvhich as it is true of such as stand in spirituall and politicall church-vnion vvith a church and the ministerie thereof vvho accordingly haue church communion in the publique acts and exercises of that church so is it not true of others vvhich are not members of not in ecclesiasticall vnion and combination
vvith the said church For the better clearing of things let vs in a fevv vvords consider distinctly of religious actions according to the seuerall ranks in vvhich they may rightly orderly be sett Some such actions are religious onely as they are performed by religious persons And of this sort is hearing and so reading of Gods vvord The scriptures teach and all confesse that hearing of the vvord of God goes before faith For faith comes by hearing Rom. 10. 17 as by an outvvard meanes Hearing then being before faith 1. Tim. 1. 5 and faith before all other acts of religion invvard Rom. 10. 10 or outvvard Gal. 2. 20 it must needs follovve that hearing is not simply or of it selfe a vvork of religion and so not of religious communion Hearing is properly and of it selfe a naturall action though it be the hearing of the very vvord of God And I call it a naturall action in it selfe in a double respect First for that the light of nature teacheth euery man to heare and listen to another that can and vvill teach and inform him in any thing for his good diuine or humane Secondly for that a meer naturall man levv Turk Infidell or Idolator lavvfully may yea necessarily ought to hear Gods vvord that so of naturall he may become spirituall In the seacond rank I place preaching Psal. 50. 16. 17. prayer which are properly acts religious Pro. 15. 8. and spirituall as being to be performed the one by a gift Ioh. 9 31. the other by a grace of Gods spirit Of a third sort is the participation in the Sacraments vvhich ordinarily at least requires a member shippe in some perticuler and ministeriall church in the participant they being publique church ordinances In a fourth order I set the power of suffrage and voyce giâ—eing in electing of officers and censuring of offenders for vvhich there is requisite an interest of the person so voteing in that perticuler church as a member thereof Of the last sort is the ministration of Sacraments which requires vvith the rest fore mentioned a publique state of ministery in the person administring them Novv for preaching by some hearing by others vvhich tvvo alvvaies go together they may be and oft are performed vvithout any religious oâ— spâ—â—â—tuall communion at all passing betvveen the persons preaching or hearing When Paul preached to the superstitious Athenians shal vve conceaue he had spirituall communion vvith that heathenish assemblie Act. 17. 22. Hovv much lesse had they spirituall and religious communion vvith him vvho performed not so much as a religious vvorke in their hearing As God gaue any of them to beleeue they came into invisible or invvardly spirituall personall communion vvith him as they came to make personall manifestation and declaration of their faith they came into outvvard personall communion vvith him Lastly as they came to joyn in or vnto some perticuler church in to church communion vvith him els not So when there comes into the church assembly vnbeleuers 1. Cor 14. 23. heathens Turks Ievves Atheists excommunicates men of all religious men of none at all and there heare vvhat spirituall communion haue they vvith the church or state of the teacher or one vvith another either in regard of the nature of the act done or by Gods ordination and institution Hearing simply is not appointed of God to be a mark and note either of vnion in the same faith or order amongst all that heare or of differencing of christians from no christiaÌ„s or of members from no members of the church as the sacraments are notes of both in the participants The hearing of the vvord of God is not so inclosed by any hedge or ditch deuine or humane made about it but lies in common for all for the good if all The perticuler objections follow 1. OBIECTION No man may submit his conscience to be wrought vpon by an vnlawfull and Antichristian ministery neither hath God promised or doth afford any blessing vpon it neither can any haue the sanctified vse thereof ANSWERE It cannot be said properly that the office of ministerie vvorkes vpon the conscience of the hearer The office onely giues povver and charge to the teacher to teach in such or such a church state And as it resides in the person of the officer alone so the communion lavvfull or vnlavvfull vvhich any hath vvith it is in regard of the lavvfull or vnlavvfull ecclesiasticall relation and vnion foregoing betvveen the persons and not in any vvorking of the office vpon the conscience of any Secondlie though God blesse not the vnlavvfull office of ministerie vvhich is not of him selfe yet he may and doth blesse the truthes taught by the officer Genes 4â— 5. 6. vvhich are of himselfe and from heauen To deny this of many in the church of England is Balaam-like to curse vvhere God vvould haue vs blesse 2. OBIECTION To heare such a minister is to honour approue and vphold his office of ministery ANSWERE 1. If this be simply true then vvhen the heathenish Athenians heard Paul preach or vvhen an vnbeleuer comes into the church assembly and hears the preacher he approues honours and vpholds the office of ministerie vvhich vvhat it meanes he is altogether ignorant If any reply But vve know the ministery of the church to be as it is I ansvvere that the knowing of it makes not our act the more or lesse an act of approbation If I do an act wherin I indeed approue of a thing if I know the thing I really approue of it vpon knowledge if I know it not I really approue if it but ignorantly 2. If I approue of the office simply because I heare the officer preach then I much more approue of all the doctrines vvhich hee deliuers because I heare him deliuer them If the latter seem vnreasonnable so is the former much more except I be in church communion vvith the officer and then indeed I really approue of his office as I also doe of his doctrine if it be according to the confessioÌ„ of faith made by mee for then I am in former vnion vvith him in the one or other and so haue communion in the acts therof If this vvere a good ground that euery one approues of the euil done in matter or manner where he is present none could liue with good conscience in any society of men vpon earth Persons so minded are best alone for vvith others they vvill keep no peace no nor vvith themselues neither if they be true to their ovvne ground But they plainly balke themselues in their courses either in vveaknes of judgement or partialitie of affection or through vvant of due consideration of their vvaies 3. OBIECTION By this then it seemes a man may be present at any act of Idolatrie and do as others do that practice idolatrie yet not approue of it And so the three Nobles in Daniell needed not to haue put themselues vpon such pikes
for the preuenting in some and remedying in others of that inordinate and broken course And first I demaund of such what is this course of hearing such ministers as vvhose stare of ministerie they approue not Is it any perticuler ordinance left by Christ and enjoyned all christians in all ages and places Verily no. It vvere to be vvished that no church-ministerie vvere to be found vvhich is not approueable by the Word of God notwithstanding any good act performed by them that posses it This hearing is onely a vvork of naturall liberty in it selfe as I haue shewed and sanctified to beleeuers by their faith It is lawfull to vse it vpon occasion as it is to borrow of other men but to make it our course is to liue by borrovving vvhich no honest man that can do othervvise possibly vvould do Yea what differs it from a kinde of spirituall vagabondry in him that can mend it though vvith som difficulty to liue in no certain church-state and vnder no church-order and gouernment To print deep in our hearts the conscience of our duties this vvay let vs briefly consider how many bonds of necessity the Lord hath layd vpon vs to vvalk in the followshippe vnder the ordinances of the ministeriall and instituted-church First vve haue lying vpon vs the necessite of obedience to Christ our Lord in the commission Apostolicall enjoyning that after vve be made disciples as the vvord is Mat. 28. 19. 20. and baptised vve be vvithall taught to obserue vvhatsoeuer he hath commaunded It must not then suffice vs that vve are disciples and christians but we must joyn hearewith the entire obseruation of al the ordinances of Christ as vve can finde meanes from the greatest to the least And let vs beware that like the Scribes Pharisees Mat. 5. 19. 20. vve call none of Gods commaundements litle because vve vvould make our selues and others beleeue that litle and light account is to be made of obseruing them lest vve our selues bee called litle that is be indeed none in the kingdome of heauen Our sinnes of ignorance and humane frayly alas are to many let vs not adde therevnto presumptuous sinnes either of commission or omission to prouoke God vvithall 2. The church and ministrations therein are not needlesse but most needfull meanes sanctified of God and giuen of Christ for our saluation and edification therevnto Act 2. 47. vvhich he that despiseth that is Eph. 4. 11 doth not submit his soule and body vnto as he hath meanes and conuerse therein vvith good conscience though in affliction persecution despiseth not man but God and Christ to the depriuing of himselfe of the fruit of Gods most gracious presence in his house and temple 1. Tim. 3. 15. vvhere he hath promised to dwell and of Christs ascention into heauen for the powring out of all kingly gifts and largesses vpon men for the vvork of the ministery 2. Cor. 6. 16. 3. Our great infirmities vvhereof both the scriptures euery vvhere and our owne experience vvarn vs shew in vvhat great need vve stand of all the Lords holy ordinances and institutions for the supplying of vvhat is vvanting in vs and correcting of vvhat is a misse and continuing and encreasing of vvhat is good vnto the cōming of the Lord vvhere vve must also take knowledge and remember that it is on note of difference and the same very cleare betvveene the vvisedome of the fleshe and the vvisedome of the spirit that the former vvilbe sure to prouide for the body and outvvard man vvhat may bee though vvith danger and prejudize of the spirituall the other vvill take care and order for the spirituall state though the outvvard pinch for it And if any out of the view and persuation of his ovvne strength of grace come to conceaue that he stands in no such need of Christs ordinances or of any christian follovvshippe for the dispensing of them let such a man consider that the lesse need he hath of others by reason of his greater plenty of grace receaued the more need others haue of him for their supply But vvhatsoeuer any imagine of himselfe the Apostle vvho vvas not partiall teacheth that the very head the chiefe and highest member can not say to the feet the lovvest and meanest members I haue no need of you 1. Cor. 12. 21. 4. And lastly it is necessarie for our sound and entire comfort vvith the Lord our God that our obedience be entire in respect of all his holy commandements vvhich vve do or can discern to be such and to concerne vs according to that of the man of God Psa. 119 6 Then shal I not be ashamed vvhen I haue respect to all thy commaundements That so vve may haue our part in the testimonie giuen by the holy Ghost of Zachary and Elizabeth Luk. 1. 5. 6. vvhich vvas that they vvere righteous before God walking in all the commaundements ordinances of the Lord blamelesse That is both in the morall precepts and sacred ceremonies and institutions of the Lord Whose examples vve in our place and times are to followe not balking vvith the Lord in any thing great or small nor seeking starting holes vvhereby to escape from him in his word which is vvholy good and pure Good as comming from our good God Pro. 30. 5. Heb. 6. 5. good in it selfe and good for vs if vve conuerse therein as vve ought in good conscience tovvards God zeale for his ordinances modestie in our selues and charitie tovvards other men specially towards them vvith vvhom God hath joyned vs in the most and best things taking heed lest by any vncharitable either judgment of or vvithdrawing from their persons for such humane fraylties as vnto vvhich into one kinde or other all Adams sinfull prosterity are subject vve sinne not more by our course held against them then they by theirs in them vvhich God forbid To conclude For my selfe thus I beleeue with my heart before God and professe with my tongue and haue before the world that I haue one and the same faith hope spirit baptisin and Lord which I had in the church of England and none other that I esteem so many in that church of what state or order soeuer as are truly partakers of that faith as I account many thousand to be for my christian brethren and my selfe a fellow-member with them of that one misticall body of Christ scattered far and wide throughout the world that I haue alwaies in spirit and affection al christian fellowshippe and communion with them and am most ready in all outward actions exercises of Religione lawfull lawfully done to expresse the same withall that I am perswaded the hearing of the word of God there preached in the manner and vpon the grounds formerly mentioned both lawfull and vpon occasion necessary for me all true christians with drawing from that Hierarchical order of church gouernement and ministery and the appartenances
thereof and vniting in the order and ordinances instituted by Christ the onely King and Lord of his Church and by all his disciples to be obserued and lastly that I cannot communicate with or submit vnto the said Church-order and ordinances there established either in state or act without being condemned of mine owne heart and therein prouoking God who is greater then my heart to condemne me much more And for my failings which may easily be too many one way or other of ignorance hearin and so for all my other sinnes I most humbly craue pardon first and most at the hands of God And so of all men whom therein I offend or haue offended any manner of way euen as they desire and look that God should pardon their offences FINIS HEER FOLLOWETH A true Copie of a Letter sent to London written by the Author of the former Treatise and read in publique and by the whole consent of the Church was sent to London in answere to a letter sent by the Church of London to the Church of Amstelredam and Leyden Which we haue thought good to Printe onely to let the World see what the Churchs opinion was of hearing in England the contents wherof followeth TO OVR BELOVE IN THE Lord the Church of Christ in London Grace and Peace from God the giuer thereof and in him our louing salutations IT may seeme strange vnto you brethren and that not vvithout cause that vve should haue deferred thus long our answere vnto your letter and as vnseasonable that after so long delay vve should now frame an answere Our defence in the former case is partly the other churchs keeping the same so long in their hands before they sent it vnto vs and partly their contentions arising about it of vvhich vve both desired to see some issue and hoped vvithall that by occasion thereof vve might come to communicate our counseills together as vve conceiue by your joint letter your desire to haue been But both in vain For the letter then partly fearing lest vve should seeme to neglect you and partly hoping that some vse might be made thereof for after times and occasions we thought it better late them neuer to addresse this our answere yet so as you are in the first place to be intreated by the Pastor of the church heare to take knowledge that he vvas not verie vvilling to read publiquelie that your letter for two reasons The one a loathnes that either strangers or brethren should take knowledge of that in ordinate and lawlesse course held by such there as both in regard of their yeares and learning and especiallie of their place in the church should haue being an example to the rest in vvisedome sobrietie and Christian forbearance speciallie in a case threating diuision and dissipation following therein Christ our great high Priest who being touched with the feeling of our infirmities can haue compassion of the ignorant Heb. 4. and 5. The true naturall mother vvould not consent to haue the liuing childe derided but the counterfeit vvas easily mooued therevnto how earnest soeuer she seemed to haue it accounted hers Secondlie For that he conceaues it not orderly that the bodies of churchs should be sent to for counseil but some choise persons Power and vnauthoritie is in the body for elections censures but counseil for direction in all affaires in some few In vvhich regard euerie perticuler church is appointed its Elderships for ordinarie counseillers to direct it and the members thereof in all difficulties vvith vvhom others are also to aduise vpon occasion speciallie ordinarie The Priests lips should preserue knowledge they should seek the Law at his mouth for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts Mal 2. These things premised our generall answere to the questions propounded by you followeth You demaind 1. Whether you haue done well in reâ—eining her to vvit the maid about vvhom the difference vvas she leauing practise according to her promise Answere We iudge that therein you did vvell yea though she had continued her practise vpon occasion and without neglect of the church wherof she vvas a member how much more leauing it as she did Considering the action it selfe the hearing of the word of God the great prouocations she had therevnto the state of the other church about vvhich your next question is moued and vvith all these that excommunication is the heauiest censure vvhich the church can inflict for the most heynous offence most obstinatly stood in we deem it against that brotherlie forbearance vvhich the stronger owes to the vveaker so seuerelie to censure a failing so supposed of that kinde To their assertion that she vvas an Idolator hauing broken the 2. Commandement for that Mr. Iakobs people vvere iudged Idolators in their going to the assemblies and therefore from 1. Cor. 5. If any called a brother be an Idolator c. We answere that heare are diuers consequences collections made vvithout rule of charitie or ground of trueth To graunt as the trueth is that manie things in the assemblies are against the second Commaundements vvhich forbids nothing but Idolatry expresly and by consequence vvhatsoeuer tends therevnto and vvithall that Mr. Iakobs people did partake vvith diuerse of these euills yet wee deny it to agree either vvith christianitie or ciuillitie in common course of speech to calenge euerie such practise as the committing of of Idolatrie or such person as Idolators The Lord Iesus teacheth Math. 5. 21. 22. that all vnaduised anger is against the sixth commaundement Thou shalt do no murder Is therefore euerie man that manifests vpon occasion any the least vnaduised anger to be chalenged as a committer of murther or murthererâ— so by proportion euerie lesse modest word gesture or fashion of apparrell is against the seuenth commandemsnt Thou shalt not commit adulterie Euerie vvronging of another by negligence vnprouidence or partiall affections vvhich euerie one lesse or more beares to him selfe though but in a half penny against the eight commaundement Thou shalt not steale are all therefore so doing to be pronouncied and prosecuted as theefes and adulterers {reversed} By these vain collections and bold chalenges searse any so good and godly but might be branded as Idolators â—heefes murderers adulterers and vvhat not For whoe can vnderstand his errours and secret faults {reversed} vvords are vnto things as cloathes vnto the body And as it were a vain course to put vpon a childe a mans coat though neuer so costly to make him seeme a man so is not onely vain but also injurious to put vpon the things vvhich vve dislike odious phrases though taken out of the verie seriptures to make them seeme vvorse then in trueth then are Indeed he that is vnder the Law iudgement therof doing the least euill against the 1. or 2. commandement is an Idolator and against the 6. 4 murtherer and so for the rest in regard of God and the rigour of justice whom yet for men so to call