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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
act_n	apostle_n	church_n	elder_n	5,779	5	10.2377	5	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A91309	Truth triumphing over falshood, antiquity over novelty. Or, The first part of a just and seasonable vindication of the undoubted ecclesiasticall iurisdiction, right, legislative, coercive power of Christian emperors, kings, magistrates, parliaments, in all matters of religion, church-government, discipline, ceremonies, manners: summoning of, presiding, moderating in councells, synods; and ratifying their canons, determinations, decrees: as likewise of lay-mens right both to sit and vote in councells; ... In refutation of Mr. Iohn Goodwins Innocencies Triumph: my deare brother Burtons Vindication of churches, commonly called Independent: and of all anti-monarchicall, anti-Parliamentall, anti-synodicall, and anarchicall paradoxes of papists, prelates, Anabaptists, Arminians, Socinians, Brownists, or Independents: whose old and new objections to the contrary, are here fully answered. / By William Prynne, of Lincolnes Inne, Esquire.	Prynne, William, 1600-1669.	1645 (1645)	Wing P4115; Thomason E259_1; ESTC R212479	202,789	171

seven to what Rules Covenants Orders Censures Government Discipline every private Minister Eldership or every major part of a congregation shall arbitrarily prescribe unto their members as suitable to the Word No doubt he that hath a doubtfull case in Law would rather have the advice of many solid Lawyers then one he that is sicke in body will give more credit to the opinion of the whole Colledge of Physitians upon debate then to one or two Doctors or Apothecaries Whence the policies of all States Churches in all Ages have reserved the power of making Lawes and setling matters of greatest moment to their most generall Councells Parliaments and Assemblies not to Cabinet Counsells or Vesteries Brother it is a true rule of Aristotle that men are better governed by Laws which continue constant inpartiall inflexible then by Men whose lusts passions interests and private ends doe for the most part byasse them awry holds as well in Ecclesiasticall as civill Constitutions Therefore this legislative power and Jurisdiction of Parliaments and Synods over particular Churches is so farre from being a prejudice or slavery to them that it is as great a priviledge and freedome as our Parliaments are to our Kingdomes which onely make binding Lawes for all and the only meanes to free us from an arbitrary Government The third thing my Brother objects is That all these Churches where the Apostles Preached were of absolute Authority among themselves respectively and equall one to another not one of them having jurisdiction over another The seven Churches of Asia the Churches of Ephesus Corinth Antioch c. exercising all jurisdiction within themselves alone not being subordinate to themselves or any other as others object And in the Primitive Churches next after Christ for two hundred yeares or more the Government was almost popular and every Church had equall power of ordaining and casting out their Minister and were independent one of another as appeares by the Centurists Cent. 1. c. 7. Tit de Conso●iatione Ecclesiarum and De Synodis privatis To this I answer 1. That there is no such thing in the first Century my Brother quotes nor any thing in the second but that one particular Church and Bishop was not then Lord and soveraign over another but it saith not they were not subject to the determinations of publick Synods 2. That none of the Churches planted by the Apostles were absolute and Independent as you pretend For first they were all subject to the Apostles rules and directions both Churches Ministers Elders as is evident by the whole History of the Acts and all the Epistles written to those Churches after they were planted prescribing Rules and Directions to them for to follow by Pauls sending for the Elders of the Church of Ephesus to him to Miletus and giving them there a charge concerning themselves and their flockes Acts 20. 15. to 36. by ● Cor. 11. 18. That which commeth upon me daily the care of all the Churches c. 1 Cor. 11. 34. The rest will I set in order when I come by his commanding them to deliver the incestuous Corinthian to Sathan 1 Cor. 5. 4 5. Tit. 1. 5 6. Therefore they were not Independent or absolute in themselves but subordinate to the Apostles 2. Though they were not subordinate immediately one to another as one single Parish Church now is not subordinate to another particular Church nor the Churches of one City Republike Kingdom subordinate to another yet they were all subject to a Parliament Synod or combination of many Churches in cases of differences new opinions c. which concern the purity of Religion the suppressing of Schismes the common Peace or weale of all Churches in which all have equall interest as is cleare by the Synodicall determination and decrees of the Apostles Elders and Brethren at Ierusalem who sent Decrees to all the Churches of the Gentiles to observe Acts 15. throughout c. 21. 24 25. which is thus expressed Ch. 16. v. 4 5. And as they went through the Cities they delivered them THE DECREES FOR TO KEEPE THAT WERE ORDAINED OF THE APOSTLES AND ELDERS WHICH WERE AT HIERVSALEM And marke the happy fruites and effects of those Decrees And so was the Church established in the Faith and increased in number daily It was well there were no Independents then they would have quarrelled both this Synod and its Decrees as they doe most strangly now or sought for to avoyd this unavoydable president argued as some doe now What we are Independent Congregations absolute and compleate within our selves what hath the Church or Synod at Jerusalem to doe to make Decrees for us to keepe who are under Christ alone as our onely King Head Governour Law-giver not under Apostles Elders Synods or any other Church who may not Lord it over us Hence then I argue that the Churches then were not Independent because they thus readily embraced submitted to the observation of these Synodall Decrees which our Independent Churches will not stoop to saying Their Churches are absolute intirely their owne who is Lord over them Adde to this that the Apostle in the 1 Cor. 11. 15. argues the unlawfulnesse of womens praying without vailes and of mens wearing long haire ad never longer in England then now in the Church of Corinth from the very custome of other Churches Neverthelesse saith he if any man seens to be contentious in opposing the premises we have no such custome NEITHER THE CHVRCHES OF CHRIST where Paul from the custome of all other Churches of Christ condemnes the irregularity of some in the Church of Corinth whence I argue If the lawful laudable customes only of all other or most of the Churches of Christ ought to oblige a sister Church that is singular and different from them to uniformity with them in things convenient and just as this Text manifests then by like reason the just Decrees and Canons of many Churches combined ought to oblige particular Churches which are under their precincts 3. Though the Church of Corinth did not exercise Jurisdiction or claime a power over the Church of Philippi nor one of the seven Churches exercise a Jurisdiction over the other as they were single Churches and under severall civill Government whose Magistrates then were not Christians yet Paul John and the other Apostles held a jurisdiction over them as their Epistles to them manifest and they all combined in a Synod had power by their Deputies one over another not as particular Churches but as a Synod wherein they were all combined as the second Century cap. 7. Master Rutherford his due Right of Presbitires Art 15. p. 355. to 480. to whom I sha refer the Reader My Brothers Argument therefore is but this in substance The Church of Sepulchres hath no jurisdiction over Saint Androwes nor the Church of Pauls over Westminster not the Church of England over the Church of France or Scotland Ergo a generall Councell or

reason all their Lawes Canons Edicts should be obeyed as just and good but such wherein there is apparant errour and pregnant contrariety to the Scrip●●re 4. All determinations of men not immediatly directed by an infallible spirit ●ven in Church-affaires ought not to be condemned but submitted to since Paul resolved some things of his kind by his owne private spirit vvithout the spirit of God especially inspiring him to which yet we all submit as is clear by 1. Cor. 7. ● 11 to 40. For that clause concerning the holy Ghost I shall give you a very full answer to it First it is cleare by Acts 15. 6. 7. 12 13. 22 23. that those who used this expression It seemed good to the holy Ghost and to us were not only Apostles indued with in infallible spirit but likevvise the ELDERS BRETHREN AND WHOLE CHURCH OR Synod then assembled at Ierusalem Now Brother you cannot say nor prove that all the Elders Brethren and whole Church of Ierusalem were infallibly inspired yet they all used this Language then as well as the Apostles therefore by the self same Reason Parliaments Synods Councells may do it now especially where they ●arnestly seck to God for the Holy Ghosts direction assistance ayde by fasting and prayer Secondly God hath commanded all Christians earnestly to pray for and hath promised to give the holy Ghost and his Spirit to those that ask him yea the Scripture is expresse that the Holy Ghost and Spirit doth not only sanctifie comfort live dwell and abide in the hearts soules of Christs Ministers and people for ever but avers that their very bodies are the Temples of the holy Ghost which dwelleth in them that he shall lead his Church and people into all truth why therfore they may not now say when Assembled in Parliament or a Synod with sincere hearts desirous to reforme and settle Church-government as near as may be to the Scripture It seemes good to the Holy Ghost and us especially when they have found an extraordinary providence and assistance from Heaven which they have importuned in the work as well as the Apostles Elders and Brethren then since we and they have all one and the self same spirit though in a different measure by which spirit we are all Baptized into one body and have all been made to drinke into ONE SPIRIT I cannot discerne Thirdly all Christians are expresly commanded to pray in the Holy Ghost to pray in the Spirit and sing in the Spirit in which duties the Spirit helpeth our infirmities yea the Scriptures are direct that Christians are not only Regenerated quickned sanctified by the Holy Ghost and Spirit of Christ and receive the earnest and first fruits thereof but that they are lead by the Spirit Walk in the Spirit live in the Spirit worship God in the Spirit speak and blesse God in the Spirit yea it is the great promise under the Gospel that God will powre out his spirit upon all flesh that they shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and be filled with him whence we read that Steven and sundry others who were not Apostle● were filled with the Holy Ghost full of the Holy Ghost partakers of the holy Ghost and I hope Brother you and all other godly Ministers do both pray and preach in through and by the Holy Ghost and spirit of Christ yea I doubt not but you inform your new Proselites Members how by the spirits direction you gathered your Independent Church prescribed them your new Covenant Discipline Government that you exhort teach instruct comfort wounded soules and resolve their scrupulous consciences doubts by the assistance and guidance of the Holy Ghost else all you doe say prescribe resolve is to little purpose and the work of your Ministry wil be very unprofitable disclaim but this and all your new Congregation will soone disclaim you for their Minister they and we accounting all those who either do or cannot pray and preach in and by the spirit of God with some good evidence and demonstration thereof unsavery ●alt fit for nothing but to be cast out and trampled under 〈◊〉 of all men as many hundreds of such have been so served of late If then all this be undenyable Scripture and experimentall Truth why a Parliament of Godly Religious Lords and Commons with an Assembly of Reverend Divines now assisted with the prayers of all godly people to settle a Church-Government Discipline Worship according to the will and word of Christ in all things may not engrave this Motto It seemeth good to the Holy Ghost and to us to order and settle things thus c. on all their determinations resolutions as Councels have usually done in former time from this very Te●t you cannot re●der the least dram of reason If you alledge which is all that can be Objected that perchance all or the greatest part of the Parliament and Assembly are not i●dued with the sanctifying spirit of God therefore they cannot use this Language I answer First this is onely known to God not you who onely kn●weth who are his and hath made you no Iudges of their hear●s whose persons for the most part I dare say you do not ●●miliarly know Secondly admit there may be some few among them who have not Gods sanctifying spirit yet I doubt not but very many if not the major part of them have as their zealous actions and proceedings evidence to all the World in despite of all jealou●ies or 〈◊〉 and the 〈◊〉 or a great part being such they may now as wel use this expression 〈◊〉 the Apostles Brethr●n and whole Synod of Ierusalem whom you dare not ●ver to be all reall Saints endued with the infallible and sanctifying spirit of God So as Brother you might well have forb●rn that sco●●e you put upon our Assembly and Parliament A Cardinall in the C●●clave at Viterbium after almost 3. yeers agitation As many yeers AS WE HAVE BEEN ABOVT TO SET VP A REFORMATION AND THE FOVNDATION NOT YET LAID each Cardinall ambitiously aspiring to be the Pope one of them r●se up and said Domine c Let us uncover the roos of this chamber seeing that the Holy Ghost cannot get in unto us through so many Tiles which I will not aggravate Thirdly it is your own Dogmaticall Resolution That in the Synod at Jerusalem onely the Apostles were guided by the Holy Ghost and an infallible spirit not all the Elders Synod and Brethren who did but give their consent to those Decrees as Softines Tychicus Timothy and other Brethren joyned with Paul in his 〈◊〉 Therefore because the Apostles who had the leading Votes were thus guided and they consented they all joyned in this Language It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and us If then the Major or leading part of the Parliament and Assembly be now indued with Gods Holy Spirit they may all by like reason joyne in the

liberty left them to elect what civil government they by publique consent shall deem most convenient provided it be generally agreeable to Gods Word which hath prescribed generall rules applicable to all civill Governments actions as well as Ecclesiasticall and spirituall though no one Government in particular And why the Government of the CHVRCH MILITANT should be more particularly uniformly unalterably said down in scripture then the Government of Christian Kingdoms Nations states under the Gospel which leaves both of them equally undetermined since both of them were alike limited among the Israelites under the Law no rational man cangive any solid reason Christ being King of Kings Lord of Lords yea a great King over all the Earth the only Potentate and Lord of Kingdoms Nations Republiques and of mens bodyes estates as well as KING and Lord of his Church Saints or of mens soules and consciences 9ly There was not only one uniforme Church-government at first under the Gospell in all Churches no not in the Apostles times for in the originall gathering and planting of the Christian Churches they had at first only Apostles Brethren no Elders or Deacons After that their Churches increasing they proceeded to elect ordain Deacons in the Churches of Ierusalem and afterwards some other Churches though not in all for ought we read Not long after the Apostls ordained Elders in Churches which had none at first after that Widowes in some Churches not in all In the primitive Churches some Congregations had Apostle s Evangelists Prophets workers of miracles Healers by miraculous extraordinary gifts of healing men endued with diversities of Tongues Interpretation of Tongues GOVERNMENTS that is men gifted with an extraordinary faculty of Governing Churches all which the Scriptures many Divines distinguish Other Churches at that time had none of these Officers or members and all Churches have beene deprived of them since those dayes these Officers not being perpetuall but temporary as all acknowledge though Christ might have continued a succession of them still had he pleased Therefore the Government and Officers of all Churches not being de facto one and the selfesame in all particulars in the very Primitive times as well as since it can never be proved to be of divine right but one the sel same in al succeeding ages without the least variation since it was not so in the Apostles days 10ly The Apostles speech 1. Cor. 12. 4 5. 6. c. There are diversities of gifts but the same spirit and there are differences of administrations but the same Lord and there are diversities of operations but the same God which worketh all in all compared with v. 8. to 13. ch 9. v. 19. to 24. I made my selfe servant unto all that I might gaine all And unto the Jew I became as a Jew that I might gaine the Jew to them that are under the Law as under the Law that I might gaine the Jew to them that are under the Law To them that are without Law as without Law that I might gaine them that are without Law To the weake I became as weake that I might gaine the weake I am made all things to all men that I might by all meanes save some paralleld with Acts 15. 1. 2. 5. 6. to 32. Ch. 21. 18. to 30. by which it is evident that many Churches of the Iewes and those in Jerusalem did still rotain the use of Circum●ition purification other Iewish Rites Ceremonies which the Churches of the Gentiles by the Apostles owne resolutions WERE NOT TO OBSERUE And with Acts c. 2. to cap. 22. where it expresly appeares that the Apostles and other Christians equally frequented the Iewish Temple Synagogues conforming themselves to the Orders discipline thereof and their owne private Assemblie Cougregations consisting all of professed Christians Wil expresly clear it that all particular Churches Congregations in the Apostles times had not one and the selfe same Church-government Orders Ceremonies Therefore it is most cleare there is no such uniforme general government or discipline necessarily prescribed in the Gospel unto al without the least variation as is objected Eleventhly It must be granted to me till disproved that before the Law from Adams Creation till Moses there was no one universall set forme of Church Government and discipline enjoyned to be observed by all the world from which none might vary in any particular That under the Law it selfe there was one forme of Government Worship Discipline Ceremonies and Solemnities to be observed in the Wildernesse another in the Lind of Canaan One forme in and under the Tabernacle revealed by God described by Moses another in and under the Temple shewed by God and appointed by David and Salomon Yea the second Temple and its Ornaments services differed somwhat from the first and all of them expired when the Gospell came If then there were no one universall constant forme of Church-Government Discipline before and under the Law it selfe then by parity of reason till direct Scripture proofes be produced to the contraty there neither is nor can be any such under the Gospell Twelfthly The Scripture as all must acknowledge gives not many particular but mostly generall Rules for the Government and regulating of our thoughts words actions lives Children Servants Families callings the fashion of our apparell gestures eating drinking sleep c. Yea the promises and threatnings in it are for the most part generall and indefinite yet applyable to every particular person and occasion If then there be for the most part only generall Rules precepts which admit some Latitude and variety in particulars prescribed to us for the very ordering and regulating of our thoughts words actions lives apparell meat drinke c. Then certainely there are but generall Rules and Precepts given us for the Government Discipline of the Churches which admit varieties of Government discipline in sundry particulars so as they agree in the generall with the Word and bee not repugnant to it as well as the generall Rules for regulating our words thoughts actions conversations callings apparell meat drinke and family Governments admit of variety which more immediately concerne every man then the more remote and generall Government of the Church But against this my Brother Burton Objects 1. That God in the Old Testament did give this charge to Moses See that thou doe all things according to the patterne shewed thee in the Mount Hee must not vary ONE PIN And when the Temple was built God was so exact in this that he would not leave it to David himselfe though both a King and a Prophet and a man after Gods owne heart to set up what worship he pleased in the Temple but God gave him an exact patterne of all and that not only by his Spirit but in writing that he might neither adde to nor omit IN THE LEAST TITLE 1 Chron. 28. And it was never left

Patterns deduced his Assize of surplesses and paterne of the new Altars Rules c. prescribed to be enquired of in his Visitation Articles But I hope my deare Brother can not spie out any such vision nor deduce any such conclusion from this Text nor from that of measuring the Temple Altar in the Revelation which I have elswhere answered and shall here omit The 4th Argument from Dutr. 4. 2. c. 12. 31. Proverb 30. 6. Reu. 22. 19. That God hath prohibited any addition to the Booke of sacred Scripture under a plague and heavy punishment Ergo there is a set forme of Church-government and discipline prescribed in the Gospell which none may vary from by addition or diminuition Is a meere Non-sequitur For first these Texts speake only of Additions to the Bookes Doctrine Histories Prophesies of the Canonicall Scriptures then written as my Brother acknowledgeth and the Texts infallibly prove not of any Church-government Discipline Ceremonies under the Gospell not so much as mentioned or imagined in them Therefore Brother you doe very ill for to wrest these Scriptures thus against their sence and meaning 2ly Brother you know that God himselfe after the writing of the Booke of Deuteronomie the Proveths caused divers other Bookes of Canonicall Scriptures in the old and the whole New Testament to be written for the further benefit and Instruction of his Church Yea many Additions were made to the service of God in the Temple not mentioned by Moses without infringing these Texts therefore your citing of them without any limitation is very impertinent 3ly I feare Brother that those who hold there is an absolute set forme of Church-goverment prescribed in the word to all Churches though they cannot shew it and yet cry up their Independent way as the very Government discipline Kingdome and Ordinance of Christ himselfe though they neither prove nor demonstrate it are far more guilty of this sinne of transegressing these texts by Adding to Gods word then those who deny it are of adding to or detracting from it Take heed therefore I pray of this sin your selfe which you would fasten upon others You know who are most guilty of this va●ting cry The Temple of the Lord the Temple of the Lord the Temple of the Lord are these when yet they were but lying words which party boastes most of the Divinity of their way your whole Book sursets of this in every Page without one solid text to warrant what you so frequently over-confidently affirme Wherefore this Argument returns wholy on your self My Brothers 3. Objection is from the 1 Cor. 7. 17. So ordaine I in all Churches 1. Cor. 16. 1. Now concerning the collection the Saints as I have given order to the Churches of Galatia SO ALSO DO YE Every first day of the weeke or some one day of the weeke or weekly as some translate and the phrase will beare it let every one of you lay BY HIMSELFE in store as God hath prospered him that there be no gatherings when I come Act 14. 25. And when they had ordained them Elders in EVERY CHVRCH From which Authorities only and no other in the New Testament he inferrs That there is but ONE and the selfe same forme of Churchgovernment and Discipline prescribed to all Churches in the world in all ages without the least liberty of varying one from another or from the forme pretended to be thus prescribed But deare Brother what will you say if none of these Scriptures prove any such conclusion but the contrary have you not then injured the Readers and truth hereby Heare then how you are mistaken in them The question you know is not concerning Precepts Doctrines or Rules of faith which are the selfe same to all Persons Churches Ages and binde all alike but only of Church-Government disciplin But hath your first and principall text any relation thereunto No verily but to a meere privat case of conscience then undescided Whether a beleeving Wife might depart from an unbeleeving Husband or a beleeving Husband from an unbeleeving wife without mutuall consent if the unbeleever were willing to cohabit with the other This was the case of conscience then in question at Corinth and propounded specially to the Apostle to whom they Wrote for resolution v. 1. To this the Apostle gives a final desciton in the negative shewing sundry reasons for it v. 10. to 16. then v. 17. he concludes As the Lord hath called every one so let him walke AND SO ORDAINI IN AL CHVRCHES Now what Brother is this private case of conscience to one set forme of Church Disciplin or Government doth the Apostle say that this he ordained to be the very same in all Churches no verily there is no such mention or intention in the Text or Chapter so that the true deduction from hence will be but this absurd Nonsequitur The Apostle by the determination of Gods spirit ordained in every Church that Beleeving Wives or Husbands should not forsake their unbeleeving Consorts if they desired to cohabit with them Ergo he ordained one and the selfe-same unalterable set forme of Church-government and Discipline in all Churches whatsoever Your 2d text makes cleane against you For first the Apostle 1. Cor. 16. 1. 2. doth not say that he gave order for a collection in all Churches alike but only in the Churches of Galatia and there were many Churches else besides them Therefore this extends only to particular Churches not to all And so no proofe of any one universall Government of Discipline prescribed alike to all Secondly It was an order only upon a particular emergent transient occasion which might seldome or never happen againe to wit The present necessity of the Saints at Ierusalem in respect of a dearth and famine there To argue therefore an universall standing Church-government and Discipline from a particular transient occasion not permanent and lasting but contingent and temporany for this particular time and occasion only is very incongruous Thirdly The Apostle here prescribed no publique duty relating to Church-government or Discipline nor yet to be performed in the open Congregation for then there might have beene some vigor in the Text but but only a voluntary preparatory benevolence to be weekly laide apart in private according to Gods blessing on every mans estates as is cleane by the words Vpon the first day of the Week or wekely Let every one of you lay a part BY HIMSELFE not contribute publiquely in the Church in store as God hath prospered him that so there may be no collections when I come Therefore this Action hath no relation at all to Church-government Discipline or ought to be done publikly in the Church Fourthly This collection and the maner of it for every man to lay aside by himselfe some thing weekely according as God hath prospered him was only a preparatory extraordinary collection as the last clause that there may be

no collections when I come and the very words import Therefore it can be no president for an ordinary constant unalterable universall Church-government and discipline established in all Churches 5ly Which takes of all and turnes its edg against my Brother It is must be confessed that this is no binding precept nor president in point of collections themselves much lesse then in other things For 〈◊〉 demand of my Brother 1. Whether this text did simply bind all the Corinthians to a weekely preparatory contribution towards the poore Brethrens necessities that were in Jerusalem so as they might not deny or vary from it it being rather a bare advise then a peremptory precept a meere voluntary charitable action as is cleare by comparing it with Act. 13 28. 29. 30. Rom. 15. 25. 26. 2 Cor. 8. 9. 1. to 15. especially v. 7. Every man according as he hath purposed in his heart so let him give not grudgingly as of necessity for God loveth a cheareful giver 2. Whether they were necessarily tied to make privat contributions only on the first day of the week no other or had they not a liberty notwithstanding this order to do it on any other week day as wel as on the first or every day or every fortnight or 10. dayes if they pleased as their particular occasions and conditions administred abillity or opportunity for such a charitable worke 3ly Whether this prescript forme of collection admitting it obligatory during this occasion did bind any Church but this of Corinth and those of Galatia only or whether it obliged all other Churches then or simply binds all Churches now to this forme of preparatory or privat contributions or not If you say no then you yeeld the cause since this president binds no Churches now to any punctuall imitation Therefore it is no proofe at all for any one divine universall unvariable forme of Church-government and discipline in all ages prescribed by Scripture If you say yea then all Christians Congregations in the world your Independent to offend against this the Apostles divine institution in not retaining this form of privat collections by segregating something for the use of the poore Sai●ts on every Lords day or weekly in suffering publique gatherings for the poore in Churches on Lecture dayes or week-day fasts whereas these were no such collections but only laying somthing up in private by way of preparatory Charity against the Apostles comming who would then receive every mans particular Charity by itselfe and not trouble them with any publike collections In one word No Churches nor Independent Congregations hold themselves strictly obliged to this forme of collection which was not publique but private every man by himselfe but all hould they may with safe conscience vary from it Therefore if this collection be a part of Church-government or Discipline under the Gospell as you make it this Government Disciplin is both mutable and arbitrable in this particular and so by consequence in others to as occasions and conditions of the Church do vary Your third Text of Acts 14. 23. When they had ordained them Elders in every Church proves nothing for what you alledge it For first it extends not to all Churches then planted in the World but onely to every Church in Derbie Lystra Iconium Antioch to which every Church relates as is cleare by comparing it with the three preceding and following verses whence the Argument from this Text can be but this The Apostles ordained Elders in every Church at Derbe Lystra Iconium and Antioch and so in every City in Creete Tit. 1. 5. Ergo in all Churches throughout the world Which is no infallible inference They might do it in all or most Cities where the Congregations were great yet not in Villages or lesser places where the number of Beleevers was but small Secondly This proues there were Elders ordained by the Apostles in many if not most Churches But yet it concludes not infallibly that there must of necessity bee Elders ordained by those who are no Apostles in all Churches There were such Elders then Ergo there must of necessity be such now in every Church unlesse there be a direct precept enjoyning them for perpetuity is no infallible Argument Thirdly Admit it generall and binding unto all yet this proves onely that there ought by Apostolicall president and institution to be Elders not one but more in all Churches what then becomes of some of your Independent Churches which have none as Master Simsons had none in Holland and as no new Independent Churches in or about London had when they were first gathered These certainly were no true Churches of Christ by this rule because they wanted Elders Fourthly This Text speakes onely in the generall that they ordained Elders in every Church But what sort of Elders they were Ruling or Preaching Elders onely or such who did both Rule and Preach or in what manner they were ordained whether by lifting up of hands onely to chuse them and no more or by laying hands upon them or by the Apostles owne imposition of hands only as Apostles or joyning with others as ordinary Ministers or in any other form is not expressed So that this Text onely informes us that there were Elders ordained in every Church but determines nothing of their office or in what manner or form they were ordained Therefore it concludes nothing for any exact compleat unalterable universall forme of Church-government in all particulars prescribed to all Churches ordaining of Elders being onely one part of Church-government not the whol no part of Discipline that left very indefinitely in respect of the manner and forme which the Scripture hath not by any direct precept or president reduced to an unalterable certainty but rather left Arbitrary and indefinite as will appeare by comparing Num. 8. 10. Acts 1 23. 24. 25. 26. c. 6. 5. 6. c. 14. 23. 1 Cor. 4. 14. c. 5. 17. 22. 2 Tim. 1. 6. 1 Tim. 4. 14. Tit. 1. 5. It being a great Controversie at this day whether imposition of hands be now simply necessary in the ordination of Presbyters Deacons or Lay-Elders or whether it be but an arbitrary ceremony which may be omitted without prejudice if there be cause whether it belonged to the Apostles onely as Apostles or as Presbyters whether it be appropriated to Preaching Elders onely as such or to ruling Elders as well as they or to the whol Church or Congregation and such as they shall appoint Or to Arch-bishops and Bishops only as such as many held of late though now that question is out of date So as neither of these Texts in severall nor any nor all three of them conjoyned prove any such conclusion or universall set forme of Church-government and Discipline for all Churches as is pretended My Brothers 4. Objection is The every particular Congregation is a compleate intire absolute spirituall Republike Corporation Body and City of God of it self

as Neubrigensis l. 1. c. 19. records In the Lateran Councell held by Charles the great and Pope Adrian and called principally by this Pope the Councell was most solemnly held by 53 Ecclesiasticall persons Bishops or Abbots together with Judges Magistrates and Doctors of Law from all parts and also persons of all sorts and states of that City and all the Clergie of the Church of Rome who made enquiry of the customes lawes and manners of that Church and Empire consulting also by what meanes heresies and seditions might be rooted out of the Apostolique See and treating of the dignity of the Senate and Empire of Rome seeing that by reason of these things a false errour was spread over the whole world In another Councell of Lateran under Pope Leo and the Emperour Otho the Pope himselfe in his Speech to the Emperour confesseth that that Councell consisted not onely of Clergy-men but of Judges and Doctors of Law That such may be competent and meet Judges in matters of Religion and Church-affaires is evident by this notable passage of Cardinall Jacobatius though a great stickler for the Popes and Prelates authorities that in a Synod holden before Constantine and Helena where it was disputed Whether the Jewish or Christian Law should be preferrred Craton a Philosopher who would not possesse any worldly goods and Zenosimus who never received present from any in the time of his Consulship were appointed Iudges of this controversie With which the saying of learned John Gerson Chancellour of Paris accords There was a time when without any rashnesse or prejudice to faith the controversies of faith were referred to the judgement of Pagan Philosophers who presupposing the faith of Christ to be such as it was confessed to be however they did not beleeve it yet they knew what would follow by evident and necessary consequence from it and what was repugnant to it Thus it was in the Councell of Nice as is left unto us upon record So likewise Eutropius a Pagan Philosopher was chosen JVDGE between Origen and the Marcionites who were condemned by him If Pagan Philosopehrs then much more Christian Laicks endowed with learning and wisdome may be fit Iudges of controversies of Religion and Ecclesiasticall affaires and fit to have Votes in Synods And that they have been so deemed in ancient times is evident by one memorable history recorded by Possidonius in the life of S. Augustine cap. 12 13 14. who not onely informes us that Crispinus Bishop of Calamen a Donatist being accused before the Proconsull for an Hereticke and for breaking the lawes against Hereticks and denying himselfe to be one St Augustine and he debated the controversie three severall times before the Proconsull in a great multitude of Christian people expecting the event both at Carthage and throughout all Africk and that Crispin at last was pronounced an Hereticke by the Proconsull by a judiciall sentence After which there was a generall meeting at Carthage between all the Catholike Bishops and the Donatists by the speciall command of the most glorious and religious Emperour Honorius who sent Marcellinus the Tribune and Notary into Africk to bee Iudge in that Collation In which Conference the Donatists being throughly confuted and convinced of errour by the Catholikes were condemned by the sentence of the Iudge From which sentence they appealing to this Emperour were afterwards upon full hearing condemned by him and declared Hereticks Vpon which Appeale of theirs St. Augustine descants thus Is it peradventure not lawfull for the Emperour or those whom the Emperour shall send to give judgement in a matter of Religion Why then came your Embassadours to the Emperour why made they him the Iudge of their cause c. The Act of Marcellinus his sentence against the Donatists runs thus To the end that apparent errour may undergoe the yoke of revealed truth by the authority of this present Edict I advise all men of what condition soever Land-lords Stewards and Farmers as well which hold of the Crowne as of private possessions with the Ancients in all places that not forgetting the Lawes their owne dignity honour and safeguard they doe their endevour to hinder all Conventicles of the Donatists in all Townes whatsoever who shall bee bound to surrender up to the Catholikes those Churches which I allowed them of courtesie untill the day of sentence without Commission from the Emperour Photius Bishop of Smyrnae being accused for an Heretick by the Councell there was afterwards admitted to dispute with the Catholike Bishops in which dispute saith Sozomen certaine Iudges were ordained for Presidents of the Councell who from that time forwards were accounted men of prime ranke in the palace both for knowledg and dignity after many objections and answers pro and con Basil Bishop of Ancyra who defended the doctrine of the Catholikes got the victory and Photinus was condemned and sent into banishment Athanasius in his 2. Apologie requests that the Emperours most godly and religious Majesty might have the hearing of his own and his churches cause for we have good hopes that his godlinesse understanding our reasons will never condemne us If this seem strange to any Romanist that Lay-men should be competent Iudges in matters of Divinitie and have voices in Councels their owne Pope Nicholas his resolution in this very point may cease their wonder who saith in downe-right termes Faith is catholike and common to all as well to Lay-men as Priests yea generally to all Christians he speaks it expresly of Lay-mens assisting in Councels therefore it is just and reasonable they should have voices in matters of faith as well as Bishops and Clergy-men I shall close up this with the resolution of Marsilius of Padua who expresly resolves that Lay-men especially those who are pious and learned ought to be present in and summoned to generall Councels as well as Clergie-men especially when the Clergie are either ignorant corrupt or erronious in their judgements or scandalous in their lives His reasons are these First because they have all as great an interest in the faith and Churches good as any Prelates Popes or Clergie-men Secondly because many of them are better learned and versed in the Scriptures and Antiquities then many Bishops and Clergie-men yea more sound and orthodoxe in their judgments then they Thirdly because they were present and had voices in the Synod at Hierusalem even in the Apostles dayes Acts 15. and in the purest first generall Councels in which the Emperours with their Nobles and Officers assisted in the resolving of Scripture doubts Fourthly because the very Code of Isiodore for the manner of holding Councels hath this direction Deinde ingrediantur LAICI qui ELECTIONE CONCILII INTERESSE MERUERUNT Multò magis igitur qui fuerint literati in lege divina periti quanquam non sacerdotes existant sic enim fecerunt Apostoli cum Senioribus c. 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