A Moderate Answer VNTO Dr. BASTVVICKS BOOK CALLED Jndependency not Gods Ordinance WHEREIN Is declared the manner how some CHVRCHES in this City were gathered and upon what tearmes their Members were admitted That so both the Dr. and the Reader may judge how near some Beleevers who walk together in the Fellowship of the Gospell do come in their practice to these Apostolicall rules which are propounded by the Dr. as Gods method in gathering Churches and admitting MEMBERS By HANSERD KNOLLYS Printed and published according to Order Imprimatur JA CRANFORD LONDON Printed by IANE COE 1645. A Moderate ANSWER UNTO Dr. BASTWICKS Book CALLED Jndependencie not Gods Ordinance PAssing by many things lesse considerable because I intend brevity In the 7th page of the Doctors booke There is a twofold Question betweene them called PRESBYTERIANS and their Brethren who are termed INDEPENDENTS The first is concerning the Government of the Church viz. Whether it be Presbyterian-Dependen or Presbyterian-Independent The second Question is concerning the Gathering of CHURCHES Touching the former Question concerning the Government of the Church the Doctor acknowledgeth in the same 7th page that the Brethren on both sides agree that the Government of the church is a Presbyterian-Government both acknowledging a Presbyterie But whether it be Dependent or Independent is the maine thing in the question which the Doctor doth determine and saith in the Title page of his book he hath evidently Proved ' That the Presbyterian-Government-Dependent is Gods Ordinance and not the byterian-Government-Independent I intend not to strive with the Doctor about wordes and therefore touching the two Termes to wit Dependent and Independent I shall onely say this at present That if by Independent the the Doctor indeede mean as it doth appear so to my understanding by many passages in his booke he doth intend a Presbyterian-Government which hath not Dependencie upon any in matters meerly Ecclesiasticall but upon the Lord Jesus Christ Who is the Head of the Church And if by Dependent hee also indendeth as in many other passages in his booke seemeth to me to be his meaning Pag. 8.10 Pag. 14.15.17.18 a Presbyterian-Government which hath a Dependencie upon a supream Judicature of a Common-councell of Presbyters and who must in matters Ecclesiasticall be subiect unto the Decrees Sentences Constitutions and Commandments of a Common-councell Colledge or Consistorie of Classicall Provinciall or Synodicall Presbyters Then I do conceive the Doctor hath not proved nor will he ever be able to prove That the Presbyterian-Government-Dependent is Gods Ordinance And I hope to make the contrary plainly appear both from cleere Texts of Scripture and the Doctors owne bookes And seeing that the Doctor hath in the 6th p. of his Book desired all his Christan Brethren in the Deciding of this Question to take the Word of God into their Hands and with the Noble Bereans to sit downe and examine whatsoever shall be said on either side according to the Scriptures I willingly make the same request as most desirous that this short Answere may abide the like triall and be weighed in the other ballance of the Sanctuary against the Doctors Booke Now that all things may be handled in good order and in a Methodicall way the Doctor hath reduced the whole disputation concerning this first Question into four Propositions page 11. The first that there were many Congregations and severall assemblies of Beleevers in the church of Ierusalem in the which they enjoyed all acts of Worship and all the Ordinances amongst themselves and did partake of all acts of Church-fellowship especially of preaching and in the Administration of the Sacraments and prayer and that before the Persecution we reade of Act. 8.2 The second That all these congregations and severall assemblies made but one church The third That the Apostles and Elders governed ordered and ruled this church joyntly and by a Common-councell and Prebsytery The fourth that this church of Ierusalem and the government of the same is to be a patterne for all severall congregations and assemblies in any City or Vicinity to unite into one Church and for the Officers of those congregations to governe that Church joyntly in a Colledge or Presbyterie These are his four Propositions But before hee comes to the proof of these particulars hee saith it will not bee amisse in generall to take notice That all the Churches we read of in the New Testament were Aristocratically and Prestbyterially governed and were all Dependent upon their severall Presbyters and produceth divers places of Scripture to prove the same and two sheets are spent wholly in proving thereof from the 12. page to the 29. All which should it bee granted only proves First That in every City or Church there was a Presbiterie Acts. 14.23 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cumque per suffragia statuissent illis per singulas Ecclesias seniores that is When they had ordained them Elders in every Church by the Suffrage or stretching forth of Hands also Titus 1.5 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 constituas oppidatim seniores that is And thou mayest Ordaine Elders towne by towne or city by city or village by village Secondly that as there were Apostles and Elders in the Church of Jerusalem Act. 15.2,4 So there were Elders in the Church of Ephesus Act. 20.17,28 And in the Church of Corinth and in the Church of Galatia and in Philippie c. Thirdly that these severall Churches were Dependent upon their severall Presbyters and were to obey them who had the rule over them Heb. 13.7,17,24 Or who were their Guides 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Obedite ducibus vestris that is Obey your Guides Fourthly that this Presbyterian-Church-Government God hath hath appointed as his Ordinance to be continued to the end of the world the which whosoever resisteth resisteth the Ordinance of God but it doth not prove That this Presbyterian-Church-Government is Dependent upon a supreame Judicature of a Common-counsell of Presbyters or that they must submit and subject them themselves and their churches unto the Decrees Sentences Constitutions and Commandements of a Common-councell colledge and court of classicall or Synodall Presbyters which the Doctor should have proved for such a Presbyterian-Government he intends as may appeare by the Doctors owne words pag. 17.18 As for the Presbyterian Government in the sence that I understand it there is nothing more cleare to me in all the Scripture Yea the very word and name of Presbytery signifieth a Magistracy or Aristocracy or Signory or court And as the word is taken in the civill Polity and Government so in the Ecclesiasticall by a Presbytery wee understand saith the Doctor page 18. A Religious Grave Sollid Learned and Wise Councell of Divines Ministers c. Without whose joynt and mutuall accord or agreement and common-consent nothing ought to be done or transacted of publicke concernment And to make this good to wit That the Presbyters of particular congregations or assemblies of Beleevers and their Churches ought to be
discour-throughout his booke This argument I answer First by denying the Assumption or Minor proposition and the reason of my denying all is because the Scriptures produced by the Doctor doe not in expresse words declare that there were diverse assemblies and Congregations of beleevers in the Church of Jerusalem The Scriptures quoted do in expresse words declare the contrary to what the Doctor would prove For Acts 2.44,46 All that beleeved were together and they continued daily with one accord in the Temple and Acts. 3.11,12 It is expressely said That all the people ranne together to them in the porch which is called Solomons Act. 5.12 And they were all with one accord in Solomons Porch So that these Scriptures produced by the Doctor to prove that there were divers assemblies and Congregations of Beleevers in the Church of Jerusalem who met together in severall places at one and the same time to wit upon the first day of the week where they did partake daily in all Ordinances doth expresly proove the contray to wit that the Apostles and all the Beleevers in the Church of Jerusalem met together with one accord in one place to wit the Temple and in Solomons Porch and brake bread from house to house 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Domatius not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 per singulas domos and thus they did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 quotidie day by day and they continued stedfastly in the Apostles doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers and all that beleeved were together Acts. 2.42,44,46 Yea the Doctor himselfe saith in his Minor Proposition the latter part of it That the Apostles and all the Beleevers in Ierusalem did continue daily with one accord in the Temple and that they brake bread from house to huse And this shall suffice for refutation of What the Docter hath Written touching the first Proposition The second now followes page 81. viz. That all the Congregations and severall Assemblies made but one Church And to this the Doctor saith the Brethren themselves acknowledge that all Beleevers in Jerusalem were all members of that Church and they accord further that it was but one Church And it is manifest out of the Holy Scripture Acts 2.3.45.46 chapters To which I also consent But the Brethren have not acknowledged neither hath the Doctor by Scripture proved that in this one Church of Jerusalem there were averse Congregations and severall Assemblies of Beleevers and therein I must mnnifest my dissent from the Doctors opinion promising him that whensoever he shall soundly prove it by expresse Words of Scripture which he hath undertaken I will acknowledge it The third proposition which the Doctor comes next to prove is That thee Apostles and Elders or Presbyters governed and ordered and ruled this Church joyntly and by a common councell and Presbytery pag. 82. Which the Doctor saith is evident by these places following Acts 11.27 to the end The words of this Sccripture which the Doctor makes use of to prove his Assertion are these Verse 30. And sent it to the Elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul Here in these last words saith the Doctor We see that the Presbyters and none but the Presbyters received the Almes which sufficiently proveth that the Presbyters in all Churches were the men of Government pag. 82. It is not denied by the Brethren that the Presbyters in all Churches were the men in the Government of the Churches in which they are Elders But this I conceive by the Doctors favour doth not prove it to wit Because the Almes was sent to the Elders Much lesse doth that Scripture prove that the Apostles and Presbyters governed and ruled the Church in Jerusalem by a Common-councell and Presbyterie which is the Assertion that the Doctor undertakes to prove But in the 15. Chapter verse 2.4.6.22 and in chap. 16.4 And in Acts 21.17,18 The Presbyters of Ierusalem by name saith the Doctor pag. 83. are expressed Out of which places of Scripture before the Doctor frame his Arguments he pleaseth to make a digression from page 48. to 90. Wherein he highly extols the Presbyters making them equall with the Apostles in all the Acts of Church-Governement as appeares by the Doctors owne words pag. 88. I doe verily beleeve saith the Doctor that the Presbyters did act as authoritively as the Apostles and that the Presbyters might as well conclude It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us as well as the Apostles and not onely the presbyters who sate in Counsell with the Apostles and other presbyters who were Ordained Elders by the Apostles And the Assemblie now of Divines or any other may congregate and meet together in some one place for the deciding of controversies and differences of opinions in Religion to state the Questions and debate them from Scripture or warrantable authority and evidence of reason deduced from thence and may determine the qestion by joynt consent or by the most voyces and may say it seemed good to the Holy Ghost and us pag. 87.88 Pag. 88. And that Presbiters have their authoritie as well grounded in the Word of God as Kings and States have theirs page 89. And the Doctor doth more especially extoll the Presbyters of this kingdom in these our dais telling what they have deserved from the Church Parliament and Kingdome more then any of their Predecessors having ended his Digression hee gives you his Argument pag. 90. To wit ' They that in the holy Scripture are called Presbyters and acted and ordered things in a joynt body and Common-counsell with the Presbyters and exercised that ordinary power committed to them in the 18. of Mattew they acted as Presbyters But the Apostles in governing the Church of Jerusalem consisting of many Congregations and Assemblies acted and ordered things in a joynt body and Common councell with the Presbytery of that Church as Presbyters Ergo the Church of Jerusalem was Presbyterianly governed and by a Common councell of Presbyters The Major and Minor of this Sillogisme being proved saith the Doctor the conclusion will necessarily ensue I know not that the Brethren ever denied That the Church of Jerusalem was Presbyterianly governed And although the Dr. be pleased to make that his conclusion yet under Reformation be it spoke that conclusion doth not follow upon the premises For if the Dr. please to review his Argument He shall finde First that the subject of his Major proposition is left out both in his Minor and in his Conclusion The first part of the Doctors Minor should have beene this to witt But the Apostles in the holy Scripture are called Presbyters and who ever denyed this Also the first part of the Doctors conclusion should have been this from these two premises to witt Ergo The Apostles acted as Presbyters which Conclusion is not the thing in Question Secondly that from the second part of the Doctors two propositions to wit They that acted and Ordered things in a joynt body and Common-councell
which the Presbyters acted as Presbyters But the Apostles in governing the Church of Ierusalem acted and Ordered things in a joynt body and Common-councell with the Presbytery or Presbyters either of that Church Ergo the Apostles acted as Presbyters This should have been the Doctors conclusion Now the truth is though the Apostles were called Presbyters in the Scripture yet it followeth not that they acted as Presbyters but as Apostles Acts 15. And they cannot therein be a pattern and president for Presbyters First because the Apostles had the care and charge of and over all Churches 2 Cor. 11.28 But the Presbyters had the care and oversight of some one Church onely as Ephesus Acts 20.28 or Philippi Phil. 1.1 and this the Dr. often inserts in his Book That all the Churches we read of in the new Testament though they were Presbyterially governed were dependent upon their severall Presbyters pag. 12. Pag. 12. And secondly because this would make the Presbyters Independents indeed for so the Apostles were in the Government of all the Churches The Presbyters of Jerusalem of Ephesus and of all the Churches were dependent upon the Apostles and the Apostles onely depended on Christ by whose holy spirit they were all alwayes guided in the government of their Churches and therefore they said Acts 15.28 It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and us And though the Doctor say the Presbyters might say so as well as the Apostles because the Elders or Presbyters are mentioned there The Dr. might have also considered that the Brethren even the whole church the multitude how many soever the D. can make of them were present as wel as the Presbyters Acts 15.4.12.22.23.25.27.28 And so have made the Brethren the multitude even the whole Church Independent also and the Dr. might as well have affirmed that the Brethren even the whole Church might say It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us To the fourth proposition ' That the Church of Jerusalem and the Government of the same is to be a pattern for all Congregations and Assemblies in any City or vicinity to unite into one Church and for the Officers and Presbyters of those congregations to govern that Church joyntly in a Colledge or Presbytery pag. 97. And for the proof of this fourth Proposition the Doctor saith ' That all men acknowledge that the mother Church must give an example of Government to all the Daughter Churches Neither do the Brethren deny saith the Dr. but the Government of the Church of Jerusalem must be the pattern of Government to all Churches But the Dr. knowes that the Brethren deny that the Church of Ierusalem consisted of divers Congregations and severall assemblies under a Common-councell Consistory Colledge or Court of Presbyters And this they have not granted neither hath the Doctor proved And this may be sufficient to be said in answer to the four Propositions touching the first question And now I come to the second Question which is concerning the manner of gathering of Churches and admitting of Members and Officers pag. 98. which Question the Dr. thus states viz. ' Whether Ministers of the Gospell may out of already gathered assemblies of Beleevers select and chuse the most principle of them into a Church-fellowship peculiar unto themselves and admit of none into their society but such as shall enter in by a private Covenant and are allowed by the consent and approbation of all the Congregation And this Question the Doctor brancheth into sixe Queries pag. 98.99 Wherein the judicious Reader may perceive the Doctor through mis-information I conceive hath mistaken the stateing of the Question which he partly acknowledgeth pag. 100. ' But now I shall set down saith the Dr. pag. 100 Gods method and the Apostles practice in gathering of Churches and the manner they used in making Members in every Church and compare it with the method our Brethren the Independents use c. And to this purpose the Doctor begins with Christs commission Matth. 28.19,20 and Mark 16.15,16 and Acts 26.15,16.17,18,19,20 Out of these severall Scriptures the Doctor observes these three things pag. 101. and 102. To wit First ' That they should teach no other things but what Christ commanded them and appeared to them in and for which thy had his Word and warrant Secondly the condition which they were to propound unto all nations and people upon which they were admitted into the Church was Faith Repentance and Baptisme And thirdly that this commission was delivered onely to the Apostles and Ministers of the Gospel that they should admit whosoever beleeved and were baptized And they that beleeved not would not be baptized were not to be admitted These are the Doctors owne words page 102. and page 103. The Doctor for proofe quotes the third Chapter of Matthew and Luke 3.7 And the sum of Iohns preaching saith the Dr. is mentioned verse 3. It was the baptisme of Repentance for the Remission of sinnes Also he there cites Luke 7.29 That all the people that heard him and the Publicans justified God being Baptized with the Baptisme of Iohn But the Pharisees and the Lawyers rejected the councell of God against themselves being no Baptized of him page 103.104 But now to go on saith the Dr. pag 104. after the Resurrection and Assension of Christ c. Where he quotes Acts 2.37,38 Then they that gladly received the Word were Baptized and the same day were added unto them about three thousand soules Hence the Doctor observes that the Apostles propounded no other condition or termes for the making all and every one of them members of the Church but Repentance and Baptisme The which when the people had accepted of saith the Doctor They were forthwith admitted c. page 104. For another proofe the Doctor produceth Acts 10.44,47,48 Where the Doctor affirmeth page 106. That those Brethren who came with Peter did not intermeddle in that businesse to wit of their admittance by Baptisme into the Church Now I conceive the reason why those Brethren did not intermeddle to hinder their admittance to that Ordinance of Jesus Christ to wit Baptisme in water and so to an entrance into the Church was not because they had not such Libertie but because the Brethren had no just objections or kindrance to declare to Peter That the Brethren had a liberty to have declared any thing which might justly have hindred the administration of that Ordinance of Baptisme unto them doth appeare by the Question which the Apostle expounded verse 47. Can any man forbid water that these should not be baptized ' And the Dr. himselfe acknowledged pag. 102. That the Brethren or Disciples of the Church of Jerusalem who must be a patterne saith the Dr. of all churches had this libertie to except against some sorts of persons and hinder their admittance into the church though baptized according to Christs Commission and Preachers chosen and sent by Christ himselfe And that in case such persons have been formerly known to
due place I shall desire seriously to consider the Doctors proof of his first proposition which he laboureth first by producing such Scriptures as he conceiveth make for the manifestation of the Truth and from thence frames and formeth his Arguments ' His Scriptures are these viz. Matth. 3. vers 1.2.5.6 Mark 6.20.21 Matth. 14.5 and Luk. 20.4.6 And divers other Scriptures which you have at large set down in the Doctors Book with his Arguments framed from thence pag. 29. to 82. where this first proposition endeth The summe of all which I shall give the Reader to understand as briefly as I can to wit ' Where there was an infinite multitude of Beleevers or a very City of Beleevers so that they kept a tyrannicall King in awe and all the Magistrates and Elders in whose hands was all the power and Authority even a world of Beleevers with many Rulers and men of great place and and Office with such an increase of multitudes of Beleevers 8000 new Converts besides women and children yea many 10000 of Beleevers and where there were almost an hundred Preachers and Ministers besides the 12. Apostles and all these continually taken up in Prayer and Preaching There must of necessitie be many Congregations and Assemblies But in the Church of Jerusalem there was an infinite multitude of Beleevers and a very City of Beleevers which kept Herod himself the tyrant in awe and all the Magistrates and Elders even a world of Beleevers with many Rulers and men of great place and Office with an increase of multitudes of Beleevers and 8000. new Converts besides women and children yea and many 10000. after all the persecutions and almost an hundred Preachers and Ministers besides the 12 Apostles and all these were continually taken up in Prayer and Preaching Ergo they must of necessitie be dispiersed into many Congregations and severall Assemblies I do deny the Minor proposition of this Argument Neither hath the Doctor proved That there was an infinite number of Beleevers nor a very City of Beleevers in the Church of Jerusalem The Scriptures quoted by the Doctor speakes no such thing those places in Matthew Mark and Luke tell us of very many who were baptized by Iohn and by Christs Disciples but do not declare how many of these baptized persons were of the Church in Jerusalem and the Scripture witnesseth Acts 9.31 that there were Churches throughout all Judaea as well as in Jerusalem and for ought I know or the Doctor either many of those baptized persons might be in these Churches yea the most of them and but a few it may be no more but those 120. mentioned Acts 1.13,14,15 To whom were added about 3000. souls who continued in the Apostles Doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers Acts 2.41.42.44.46 And as for the world of Beleevers mentioned in another argument drawn from Joh. 12.19 behold the world is gone after him Pag. 37 and 40. That Scripture doth not say they beleeved in him much lesse that there was a world of Beleevers in the Church in Ierusalem Neither is there mention in any Scripture quoted by the Doctor of 8000. new Converts besides women and children Neither doth that Scripture produced Acts 4.4 prove any such thing For the Reader may consider that the number of them there mentioned are but 5000. And albeit the Doctor make them up 8000. by saying those 5000. men were added to the Church and joyned to the formers Beleevers pag. 57. Yet there is a twofold mistake in the Doctors Addition to wit First that some of the 3000. may be were women and how then can the Doctor say there were 8000. new converts besides women Secondly these 5000. are onely called men and not converts not beleevers For howbeit many of them hearing the Word beleeved yet it is not said the 5000. men beleeved And the truth is the Text well considered only holds forth that the number of men was made up five thousand 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 factus est numerus virorum quasi millia quinque and the number of men was made about five thousand not 8000. And as for the many 10000 s. mentioned Acts 21.20 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 comes of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 infinitus and though the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do sometimes signifie numerum decem millium yet not alwayes but for some great number which cannot suddenly be told as Luke 12 1. And Beza both according to the old and new version of the Greek into Latine reads it millia 1000 s. not decem millia 10000 s. and so we have it in our English Bibles translated thousands And the following verse 22. will make it probable that there were not many 10000 s. for there we thus read The multitude must needs come together so that I say its probable that they were not so many 1000 s. but they could yea must assemble together Neither can the Dr. make good from those Scriptures he produceth ' pag. 62. to wit Acts 1. vers 21.22 cap. 6. vers 2.4 and cap. 8. vers 1. That there was almost a hundred Preachers and Ministers besides the 12. Apostles in the Church of Jerusalem The 12. are named indeed in Act. 6.2.4 but not 100. besides no nor any one Preacher but them 12. And as for the other two places Acts 1.21.22 and Acts 8.1 there is not any word concerning Preachers or Ministers onely some directions touching the choise of Matthias who was one of the 12. mentioned Act. 6.2 And although they who were scattered preached the Word Acts 8.4 yet the Scripture doth not declare that they were Preachers or Ministers of the Church in Jerusalem But the Doctor hath one Argument which is more to the purpose then all the other which I desire the Reader seriously to consider pag. 64. he thus further argueth That which the Holy Scripture in expresse wordes and in divers places hath declalred unto us that every Christian is bound to beleeve But the Scripture in expresse words and in diverse places hath declared unto us that there were divers assemblies and Congregations of Beleevers in the Church of Ierusalem and that the Apostles and all the Beleevers in Ierusalem did continue daily with one accord in the Temple and that they brake bread from house to house and that daily in the Temple and in every house they ceasad not to teach and preach Iesus Christ Ergo There was diverse congregations and severall assemblies of Beleevers in the CHURCH of Ierusalem where they did duly pertake in all the Ordinances and injoyed all the acts of Worship Now I doe desire the Reader to consider how the Doctor Proves his Minor which he saith is manifest from Acts 2.46 and chap. 5.12,42 and chap. 3.11.12 and many more places that might be produced pag. 64.65.66 In all which discourse the Dr. gives you nothing but his own suppositions and conclusions for the proof of his Minor proposition which is his manner of
be open Enemies and persecuters of the church and then they are justly to bee suspected saith the Dr. page 102. untill they have given publike Evidence by witnesse to the Ministers of their true Conversion and there produceth a plaine instance to prove this page 102. Acts. 9.26,27,28 And when Saul was come to Ierusalem 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 tentabat jungi he assayed to joyne himselfe to the Disciples but they were all afraid of him and beleeved not that hee was a Disciple c. Now this liberty have all the disciples in the like case because Ierusalem the Mother church is the pattern of all other the Daughter Churches as the Doctor confesseth yea affirmeth page 97. And saith all men acknowledge That the Mother Church must give an example of government to all the Daughter churches And this is also by the Doctor acknowledged page 102. to be a part of the power of the Keyes to open and shut the doores of the Church that is to admit such as are for their Faith Knowledge and Repentance sufficiently qualified and fitted to be made members and to refuse such as are not fit to be recived into the fellowship of the church either for their Ignorance or other sins and offences c. Now then when it doth evidently appear That the Disciples or Brethren not to say Sisters though they are Disciples also of the Church in Jerusalem in her most flourishing condition had this libertie to declare their feares and the ground thereof against Paul who was at that time a Beleever a Baptized person a Preacher or minister of the Gospell so that although hee came and assayed to be joyned to the Disciples and be admitted a member among them that he might have fellowship with them in the worship and ordinances of the Gospell Yet was thereby hindered from admittance untill Barnabas witnessed his condition and conversation to the Apostle and then he was with them coming in going out at Jerusalem How can the Doctor make good that ' The Presbyters alone without the consent of Brethren may admit members and cast out members and that the Brethren or the congregation hath nothing to doe to hinder any such thing page 102.106 For further proof hereof ' The Doctor urgeth Act. 8.35 to 40. The example of the Eunuch to whom Philip being sent preached Jesus and Baptisme in his Name and it is related That when they came to a certaine water the Eunuch said unto him See here is Water What doth hinder me to be Baptized And Philip said If thou beleevest with all thy heart thou mayest 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 licet And he answered and said I beleeve that Jesus Christ is the Son of God And he commanded the Charet to stand still And they went downe both into the water both Philip and the Eunuch and he Baptized him Here we set saith the Doctor that PHILIP admits him into the number of beleevers and makes him a member of the Church But the Doctor saith this was without consulting with the Congregation by his owne authority and upon the Eunuch his own testimonie pag. 106. I answer that PHILIP had a speciall command from God for what he did herein and so had Ananias Act. 9.15 touching Saul which is the next Instance which the Doctor brings in this same 106. pag. And albeit the Doctor affirme ' That ANANIAS did not say to SAUL I will consult with the Church to see whither they will admit thee to be a member for thou hast greatly wasted the Church and made havock of the Saints and therefore I will have their approbation and consent and thou shalt give in evidences of thy true Conversion c. And so be received and admitted ' But without all this ado saith the Dr. pag. 107. he baptized Paul and admitteth him into the number of Beleevers and makes him a Member of the Church Yet if the Reader look back into the 102. page of his Book The Dr. there makes an exception from the power which he a little before had affirmed the Presbyters have to admit Members by vertue of Christ his commission upon the profession of their faith and repentance and receiving baptisme without any further Testimony ' Unlesse saith the Dr. they had been formerly known to be open enemies and persecutors of the Church and then they were justly to be suspected till they had given publike evidence by witnesse of their true conversion And gives an instance in Paul who for a time the Disciples feared Acts 9.26.27 till they had better information and proof that he now preached the faith that he had once persecuted and had suffered for it pag. 102. To rehearse all the Scriptures alledged to prove this method of God and practise of the Apostles were needlesse But passing by such as are not so plain and clear for the proof thereof and also omitting what the Doctor hath said touching the Brethren in comparing their practise with the Apostles Because the Dr. is mistaken in stateing the Question and also in his Queries as before I mentioned in the 14 page of this my answer and the Reader may see pag. 98 99. and 100. of the Doctors Book I shall give the Reader the result of all that the Dr. hath written from pag. 100. to the end of his Book touching Gods method and the Apostles practice in gathering of Churches and admitting Members viz. ' First That Christ having given a Commission to his Apostles to teach all Nations and baptize them Matth. 28.19.20 Mark 16 15 16. the Apostles practised accordingly Acts 2.37.38 Acts 10.44.45.46.47.48 and so did Philip Acts 8.35.36.37.38 and Ananias Acts 9.10.18 Secondly That the condition or tearmes which they were to propound unto all Nations and people upon which they were to be admitted into the Church were Faith Repentance and Baptisme Mark 16.15,16 For the commission was delivered to the Apostles that they should admit whosoever beleeved and would be baptized and they that beleeved not and would not be baptized were not to be admitted pag. 102. and pag. 104. The Apostles saith the Dr. propounded no other condition or tearmes for making all and every one Members of the Church but Repentance and Baptisme Acts 2.37.38 Thirdly that the Apostles and all succeeding Ministers of the Gospell should admit whosoever beleeved and were baptized to be Members of the Church and teach them to observe no other things but what Christ commanded them and for which they had his Word and warrant pag. 101. and 102. Matth. 28.19.20 And this saith the Dr. the Apostles did practice without requiring them to take a private covenant or enter into the Church by way of a particular covenant pag. 105. Acts 2.37.38 This being the summe and result of that method and practice which the Dr. conceives should be done in gathering Churches and admitting Members which the Scriptures will warrant and Christ Jesus approve of as his fathers will I shall now take liberty to declare what I know by mine own experience to be the practice of some Churches of God in this City That so both the Dr. and the Reader may judge how near the Saints who walk together in the Fellowship of the Gospell do come in their practice to these Apostolicall rules and practice propounded by the Dr. as Gods method in gathering Churches and admitting Members I say that I know by mine own experience having walked with them That they were thus gathered viz. Some godly and learned men of approved guifts and abilities for the Ministerie being driven out of the Countries where they lived by the persecution of the Prelates came to sojourn in this great City and preached the Word of God both publikely and from house to house and daily in the Temples and in every house they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ and some of them have dwelt in their own hired houses and received all that came in unto them preaching the Kingdome of God and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ Matth. 28.18.19.20 Mark 16.15 Act. 8.4 â—ap 1â— 19 20.21.22 Act. 10.20.21 Act. 5.42 Act. 28.23.30.31 Acts 17.1.2,3,4,5 Acts 17.5.11,12 Acts 2.38.40,41,42 And when many sinners were converted by their preaching of the Gospell some of them that beleeved consorted with them and of professors a great many and of the chief women not a few And the condition which those Preachers both publikely and privately propounded to the people unto whom they Preached upon which they were to be admitted into the Church was Faith Repentance and Baptisme and none other And whosoever poor as well as rich bond as well as free servants as well as Masters did make a profession of their Faith in Christ Jesus and would be baptized with water into the Name of the Father Sonne and Holy Spirit were admitted Members of the Church but such as did nor beleeve and would not be baptized they would not admit into Church-communion Act. 16.30,31,32,33 Acts 8.35.37.38,39 Acts 8.12 Acts 18.8 This hath been the practice of some Churches of God in this City without urging or making any particular covenant with Members upon admittance which I desire may be examined by the Scriptures cited in the Margent and then compared with the Doctors three conclusions from the same Scriptures whereby it may appear to the judicious Reader how near the Churches some of them come to the practice of the Apostles rule and practice of the primitive Churches both in gathering and admitting Members And my humble request to the Doctor is That he will use all meanes that the method of God and practice of the Apostles in gathering of Churches and admitting Members may be conscionably practised by his Brethren of both sides according to the revealed Word and Will of the Father FJNJS