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A86482 Certain queres modestly (though plainly) propounded to such as affect the congregational-way, and specially to Master Samuel Eaton and Mr. Timothy Taylor. With an epistle also directed to them concerning their late book intituled A defence of sundry positions, &c. / By Richard Hollingworth, Mancuniensis. Hollingworth, Richard, 1607-1656. 1646 (1646) Wing H2488; Thomason E316_16; ESTC R200531; ESTC R233855 20,720 31

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may not women as Church Members challenge power and right in them do they not challenge the same in some of the new Congregations Is not investing Non-Elders with Ministerial power placing the power of the Keys in the Body of the Congregation and complaining of the Elders that rule well for taking too much upon them the sin of Corah Is it not a sin of the New as well as of the Old Testament Doth Jude Historically or Prophetically speak of it If Prophetically When and in whom is it or shall be fulfilled Doth Election without Ordination make the Officer Were the seven chosen by the people Acts 6. Officers by vertue of their Election before the Apostles prayed and imposed hands If so then did not the people rather then the Apostles appoint them over the businesse If Ordination be lesse then Election then why is laying on of hands rather then lifting up of hands in suffrages reckoned amongst the Principles Heb 6. Why is the charge more expresse that Ordination rather then Election should not be suddenly and hastily made Why is the description of persons to be ordained much more large in the Epistles to Timothy and Titus which were to ordain then of persons to be elected in any or all the Epistles written to the Churches to whom such election is conceived to belong Is Ordination of Ministers an act of Presbyterian power or of Church-liberty Did the Apostles which you confesse (a) Reasons of the dissenting Brethren did wherever they came leave the Elders and people to the exercise of that right which be longed to them invest non-Elders with the power of Ordaining Did not Churches wait and not ordain their own Elders though they had as much Authority and knew it as well as Churches now do Did not the Apostles go themselves to ordain Elders in every Church or send some Elders or other to that purpose Doth the Scripture require that every particular Congregation may yea must though she hath neighbour-Congregations to assist which is our case alone ordain her own Elders What one Elder in Scripture was ordained by those that were onely of that particular Congregation where he was to officiate What may be the reason that the Apostle which did all things fitly writing to so many Churches in each of which was a particular Eldership did not so largely if at all set down Rules for Ordination as in the Epistles to Timothy and Titus Did the Presbytery that ordained Timothy consist onely of one particular Congregation and of what Congregation and how is it proved Was not every Apostle as also Timothy and Titus as it were an Eldership of the Churches extraordinarily combined in one man When the Apostles joyned with other ●lders in Ordination under what notion did they joyn as Elders of sundry Churches or onely as Co-elders of that particular Congregation If under the later notion what did they adde unto them the Elders of a Church being but Three or Four having as much power as if by addition of Two or Three they were made Five or Six May we not grant in some cases that Supreme Civil power suppose in executing one that had murderer his father and attempted to murder his mother as well as Ecclesiastical may be exercised in one Congregation yea in one family if it be in a wildernesse when it can have no assistance in Government without having the least thought that in ordinary eases every Congregation or Family ought to be Independent in Ecclesiastical or Civil matters Ordinary Elders imposing hands on Apostles or Apostolike men as you say the Teachers of Anttoch ordained Paul an Apostle Act. 13.1 2 did they set him apart to officiate onely in one their own Congregation and not in other Churches For example not in Rome to which Paul writing calls himself with reference to that Ordination 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 an Apostle separated c. Is there not as many precepts or presidents for admitting to the Sacrament known Christians of no set Congregation which you so much boggle at as of admitting the members of other Churches and their children which you commonly practice Do not Elders receive their power and commission for the whole Church of Christ and may they not having a Call preach in any Congregation administer the Sacrament to any Christian yea vote in any Synod as the Scotish Divines by consent do vote in our Assembly Doth not communion of Churches bring communion of Offices and Officers Else how can a Minister administer the Sacrament as an Officer for as a gifted man he cannot dispense it to men of another Church by vertue of the said communion of Churches And if so why may not an Elder of other Churches in Jurisdiction If recommendation be as it were a dismission by your own Principles differing not really but onely in time may not a Minister recommended that is dismissed for a time act Ministerially in another Congregation may not the Maior of one Corporation by consent of all parties interested act authoritatively out of the said Corporation as the Maior of London is Bayliff of Southwark And may not the Colonels of Lancashire your own similitudes by like consent govern and rule the Souldiery of Cheshire Is not the whole Church of God one Corporation one City ut supra And may not then the Aldermen and Officers notwithstanding their several Wards Limits Companies joyn together in a Court of Common counsel for the Government of the City May a Pastor as a Pastor pray for the Universal Church or no Is it a divine or but an humane Institution that Ministers should be maintained by Lords-day collections If humane can any man which holds all Humane Institutions unlawful with good conscience offer at those Collections If you say it is divine where is the warrant for it Dare you determine it as certain or do you but dispute it as probable Do not those Independent Ministers which enjoy Church lands and receive Tythes or compositions for them or yeerly half yeerly quarterly stipends hold these ways of maintenance as lawful as Lords-day-collection By what Scripture prove ye that it is the duty of any Christians that are not of your Church nor ever were but are by you excluded out of it possibly because they will not take your Covenant or subscribe your Confession or the like to contribute to your maintenance seeing you take no charge of them nor so much as preach to them as Pastors Have you from Christ any power to receive maintenance from such May a Church to save charges make it a rule or constant practice to chuse no Ruling-elders though never so fit and able but such as are able to maintain themselves Doth not that Text 1 Tim. 5.17 hold forth the maintenance notwithstanding the poverty of those times as well as the lawfulnesse of Ruling elders Whether Moderators and Presidents of Synods and Church-assemblies Assessors Scribes and Registers of Church-proceedings to say nothing of ringing Bells to