decree they did as it were couertly confes that they had receiued the reward of breaking the order of god in permitting that the Elder should teache in the church For if it had bene of the institution of an Elder to preach Nether Arrius nor ten thowsand moe suche heretik Elders owght to haue giuen cause of such a decree seing the institution of the lord owght not to be broken for any abuse of men Ierome I graunt somewhere doeth reprehend this and some learned of our tyme after him haue estemed the decree of Alexandria fauty herein But that being considered which I haue alledged there is no cause to condemn that decree whether it were of the Nicen councel or of Athanasius and the Eldership of Alexandria And what if Ierome him self althowgh an Elder of Rome giue testimony vnto this cause that is to say that yt belongeth not vnto an Elder of the church to minister the word or Sacramentes Let his wordes be weighed wherby he confesseth playnly that nether Elder nor Deacon had right but vpon the Bishops commandement so much as to baptiz vuhich notvuithstanding saith he is licenced euen to laymen in tyme of necessity Vnhereunto also refer that which Tertullian writeth that it belonged vnto the Bishop onely to baptiz and that the Elder and Deacon could not baptiz but vpon the Bishops licence Now if the Elders had no right to preach c. by reason of their office or as incident into yt if the Bishop onely had right and the other but by indulgence or commandement thus far we haue boeth Tertul. and Ierome agreeing with vs that by the word of god and his institution the Elder hath not to doe with the word and Sacramentes And the same autors we haue also flatly contrary to the D. which houldeth as appeareth by the discours of his book that al Elders and Deacons of the church althowgh not in gouernment yet towching the ministery of the word and sacramentes are equal and haue as much autority as the Bishop him self This difference onely remaineth betwene Ierome and vs whether this being not of gods institution that an Elder may preach or Minister the sacramentes it be lawful for any man to giue licence therof which bouldnes of remouing and changing the boundes which the lord in the tarriers of his word hath limited boeth is before and shal afterward god willing be further handled Last of al for proof of these church Elders which being occupied in the gouernment had nothing to doe with the word the testimonie of Ambrose alledged in my former book is so clear and open that he which doeth not giue place vnto yt must needes be thowght as a bat or an owl or some other night bird to delight in darknes His saying is that the Elders fel avuay by the ambition of the Doctors where by opposing the Elders to Doctors which tawght he plainely declareth that they had not to doe with the word whervpon it is manifest that boeth yt was the vse in the best reformed churches certein hundreth yeares after the tymes of the Apostles to haue an Eldership which medled not with the word nor administration of Sacramentes and that they which wanted it partly complayned of the want partly declining from this institution of god corrected their error at the least they kept this difference that whereas the Bishop preached and ministred the Sacramentes in right of his office the Elder did it not as a thing incident to his office but onely vpon indulgence of the Bishop Another point wherin the D. turneth his tong is that where he confessed before that there was in euery church Seniors now he saith in some onely And to salue this contradiction with him self he saith by euery church he ment euery cheif city Thus yow speak but by what rule and according to whose language when yow expound euery church euery cheif citie as if their were no churches but in cheif cityes But thus must al their tonges be deuided which put them forth against the truth Howbeit to come to that point by what reason can yow shew that the Apostles instituted a seueral Ministery for cheif cities which they did not for vplandish townes what were this but to bring in an inequality amongest the churches which your self otherwhere confes owght not to be Yt is I graunt meet for the furtherance of the gospel that the cheifest cityes when al can not be serued should haue the first the sufficientest and according to their need the greater numbre but that they should haue a seueral Ministery ordeyned for them into the felowship whereof the smaler churches may not be admitted is withowt reason Secondly the gospel which conteyneth the doctrine and discipline went not owt of Ierusalē into the cheif cityes onely but into al the world Thirdly it hath bene shewed that the epistle of S. Paul to Timothy wherein mention is made of the interteinment of these Elders was not a rule prescribed to churches in great cities onely but vnto al churches wherosoeuer Further seing the Elders are continually ioyned with the Bishop it being shewed that the lord ordeyned for euery congregation a Bishop it must folow that he ordeyned for euery congregation Elders finally for as much as the Apostles labored to bring the churches one with another to an vniformity euē in the smalest ceremonies how can they be thowght to haue made so vneuen work in the Ministery of the church I let pas here the place in the Actes before handled where it is said that Elders vuere ordeyned in euery church Likewise the necessity of them aswel in other churches as in churches in the citie which is after to be handled Onely I wil note what hath bene the practise of the churches in this point wherby may appear how the auncient fathers haue vnderstood this order That Ignatius which the An. wil haue S. Iohns scholer affirmeth that there is no church vuhich can stand vuithovut her Eldership or Counsail This is manifest also by the Apologie of Tertullian wherin he defending the gouernmēt of al the churches not of those onely in cityes and shewing for that cause the order obserued in them maketh precise mention of this Senate of Elders as hath bene before alledged The testimony of M. Bucer is also manifest in this point as it is alledged of me before Likewise of M. Martyr who affirming that certeyn of the people vuere ioyned vuith the Pastor in the gouernment of the church assigneth the cause for that the Pastor could not doe al him self thereby giuing to vnderstand that the Eldership was as general as the Pastor For he doeth not say where the Pastor could not doe al there he had assistance of an Eldership but because the Pastor could not doe al c. The onely reason which the An. hath against this is that there was not an Eldership amongest the Iues in euery of their synaguoges But as
god willing shewed that the same owght to be Ministers of the word and Sacramentes I would know of him which hangeth so of the interpretation of men why he hath here departed from the iudgment of the learned and godly writers of our age and forged an interpretation which hath no approbation of any auncienty For as for that he saith of Chrysostome beside that yt is vntrw if he had neuer so smale a sound that way he would haue rong it so deep that withal he would haue turned Chrysostomes clapper But obserue how vnproperly he maketh the Apostle to speak in giuing the name of gouernment vnto that wherein there is no gouernment at al. For is yt not think yow a strong kinde of gouernment and needeth it not a great gift of discretion and iudgment to powr a litle water vpon the childes head distribute a lofe of bread cary the cup and say or read a sentence al as he is praescribed when the Apostle no where giueth this title of gouernment vnto the Deacons in whom notwithstanding is required no common discretion to know to whome and how much is to be giuen how much les would he giue it to such as haue the onely and bare administration of the Sacramentes How should also S. Paul be made to agree with him self which went the neerest way to work to ease the churches of charges if he should haue brought into yt such vnprofitable burdens as is this order of Ministers of Sacramentes which the D. imagineth especially seing a Pastor was needful in euery church who being praesent at the Sacramentes might as commodiously Minister them as be a receiuer onely His reason that the Apostle would otherwise haue said which labored in the word and Sacramentes is weak not onely because it is vsual vnto the scripture by the cheif part to note the whole but also for that the Sacramentes are conteyned vnder the word and are a visible word in which respect they are also said to haue a voice Nether doeth he here make mention of praying another of the Bishops duties so that by your answer we should haue an other order in the church of Sayers of prayers Alike vayn it is that S. Paul was not sent to baptiz but to preach when he was called to boeth althowgh rather to the one theÌ„ to the other as your self some where haue confessed As for that yow would conclude that Pastors haue no more bond to baptiz in their churches then S. Paud had yow might aswel haue concluded that al Pastors are Apostels considering that he speaketh that in respect of his Apostleship whereby he was bound to goe from place to place and not to tary as the pastor in one place The titles of Christes Vicares and of gods Prelates doe boeth agree vnto the Elders which onely gouern And althowgh nether Ambrose nor Caluin make any mention of this Eldership vpon â— Timoth. 5. 19. yet how foloweth it that they ment no such Eldership in the place which I alledged this is but a straunge conclusion M Caluins place also Institut chap. 8. sect 72 is shamefully abused for he saith that those vuhich teached vuere Elders And where as the rule of the action when the Eldership met apperteyned vnto the Ministers of the word that they chose amongest them one which gouerned the action Now in steed that M. Caluin saith that al the Ministers of the vuord vuere called Elders â—he An. maketh him to say that al the Elders of the church were Ministers of the word where Caluin in the self same chapter doeth expresly make two kinde of Elders one of those vuhich Ministred the vuord another of those vuhich vuere onely Censores of the maners of the church This Ierome is if I haue not taken my note amis a bastard and yet he hath nothing for him For in that he saith that there was and order which had the word but labored not he is as fauorable vnto this Eldership as vnto his order of sacrameÌ„t Ministers The next diuision hath nothing but that which cometh afterward to be handled Against the place that Paul and Barnabas ordeined Elders by voices in euery church first he excepteth that the plentith of preachers then was such that euery congregation where Paul and Barnabas had to doe might haue moe then one which is said withowt ether profe or likelihood the vntruth wherof may easely appear in that to the great cities where there was greatest store S. Paul was fain to send Timothy and Titus for supplies which otherwise he could so hardly spare Then he saith to ordeyn Elders throwgh euery church is to ordein one Pastor in euery one which is no plain but a figuratiue speach and that doubly boeth in that the general name of Elder is put for the particular and in that the plural number is put for the singular Therfore vnles he can work it owt with good reasons to proue that the gouerning Elders can not here be vnderstanded the simple and plain sens is to be praeferred As for the place of Titus it helpeth him not For the Apostel referring Titus to that order which he had prescribed him contenteth hym self to pursu the office of the teaching Elder vpon occasion of fals teachers which trobled the church For that owt of Caluin and Brentius it may be said that althowgh S. Luke cal them Elders which were Bishops yet he calleth them not so onely And of M. Caluin it must needes be so vnderstanded seing he auoucheth the place of Titus which the An. confesseth al one with the 14 actes for the establishment of these gouerning Elders But if the D. had read M. Nowels catechism so diligently as he would seem this would not haue bene so straunge to him For where he sheweth that the Pastor owght not to excommunicate withowt the iudgment of the church and declareth that for that purpose there were in the wel ordered churches certeyn Seniors chosen and ioyned with the Pastor he quoteth this very place which the admonition doeth And I see not why it may not be as wel referred to the Elders as to the Bishops Seing S. Luke there setteth forth how they set a ful order in the church And of that iudgment is the greek Scholiast which affirmeth that those vuhich folovued S. Paul and Barnabas vuere vuorthy to be Bishops and that they created of them Elders and Deacons also In the next diuision if the D. first answer be onely considered he might iustly complain of me but when he by and by reasoneth against the admonition for that yt would proue Seniors owt of that place of 14 Actes al see that I haue doen him no wrong To proue further that boeth Pastors and Elders which onely gouern can not be vnderstanded in that place of the Actes he assigneth this reason for that the holy gost should vse equiuocations or speak dowtfully then which there can be nothing more vnsauery For it is
of the Apostle For seing boeth that which immediatly goeth before this and which foloweth immediately after be publik offices what extreme bouldnes would it be to say that this in the middest is but priuate If he doe giue him self this licence let him shew example of such an order Further the Apostle here maketh a partition as it is manifest by the wordes and articles which are instrumentes to part with Now if he wil haue one membre in this partition bigger then al the rest and to conteyn them al he maketh the holy gost which is to be detested an euil and an vneuen parter Herevpon it cometh that when he speaketh of the dutyes which belong to al alike he beginneth with another form of speach Last of al yt is not to be omitted that he vseth the word of Distributor rather then the word giuer For althowgh it be taken sometyme for the giuer yet that is but by a trope for somuch as the same is often the distributor which is the giuer so that the proper signification being to dispose that which was giuen of others agreeth vnto the Deacon and not vnto one which giueth of his own His exceptions of Prophesy and widowes office be answered In the next being cōuicted of his vntruth he falleth to iesting albeyt it be manifest that the Adm. towcheth not onely thinges in controuersy but sometyme also the breach of that which is established To proue that the Deacon owght not to meddle with the administration of the word and Sacramentes I alledged first that the Apostle vuilling euery one to kepe him self in his boundes boundeth the Deacons office in distributing of the church treasur and by that separateth him from those vuhich haue the dispensation of the vuord vuhereas if he should preach the vuord as the other the Apostle should haue made an euil partition and pretended a separation vuhere none is His answer hereunto is that it is no reason but why it is not he kepeth to him self The second reason was that for so much as the Apostles hauing such passing giftes did finde them selues vnable to susteyn boeth the ministeries of the vuord and for the poor that therfore there can be much les novu any able to doe them boeth togither His first exception whereunto is friuolous and before confuted his other that they spent no great tyme in prouision for their sermons is vntrue and openeth a gap to Anabaptism For althowgh their giftes were greater in those tymes then now yet they omitted not therefore to study diligently which may appear in that S. Paul is so careful to haue his parchmentes browght in that S. Peter had red S. Paules epistles so diligently Likewise that the Prophetes in tymes past which had extraordinary giftes vsed great diligence in reading as it may appear in Daniel which notwithstanding he was so wise so expert in the tonges and had so oft and so wonderful reuelations yet studied the prophesy of Ieremy And in a word of them al S. Peter pronoūceth that they took great paines in their prophesies vsing wordes most strong to set forth their great labor in prouiding fo◠that they tawght Nether was this of pleasure and a thing which they might ether doe or leau vndoen but a commandement as it is to be seen in the exāple of Timothy which had giftes so much the more excellent then the Deacons as his office of Euangelistship was higher then the Deaconship For he is biddē to read to meditate and to preach ioyning one with another and that not sleightly but with attention yea that he should dvuel in them or be as it were shut vp and enclosed in them thereby noting the great diligence that was to be bestowed as wel in reading and studying as in preachīg And thus went the building of god singulerly forward whē vnto the giftes which came withowt their labor miraculously they labored also after ether encreas of them or getting of nue by the ordinary meanes prouided of god in that behalf Again S. Paul reckoning vp al the ministers of the word the Deacon not being there it foloweth that he is no mininister of the word And here the D. is plainly found at strife with him self For he confessing that there is in that place a complet and perfect diuision of the ministeries of the word and withal that the Deacon is not there conteyned doeth notwithstāding here sing a clean contrary song Moreouer it is diligently to be obserued that S. Paul in describing this office requireth not that they should be able or apt to teach which notwithstanding being by the An. iudgment the cheif point belonging vnto him should haue bene most absurdly left owt Lastly if the Deacons office had bene togither with the Stewardship of the church treasure to haue preached and administred the sacramenres yt must folow that his office must haue bene a greater office then the Pastors as that which requireth greater giftes for executing boeth that which the pastor doeth and more to which being absurd that is also whereof this foloweth That monster which remaineth in this diuision I wil set vpon whē I shal haue run throwgh that which pertayneth vnto this matter as it lieth in the 14 Tract As I did not before deny so now I cōfes him to haue bene Phillip the Euangelist and not Phillip the Apostle which is mentioned Actes the 8 and hould as before that he preached by vertue of his Euangelistship and not by vertue of his Deaconship vuhich vuas then ceased for that the church vuhereunto he serued vuas scattered Against which answer his autority owt of the Actes 21 to proue that he was stil Deacon is quite contrary to him self For it affirmeth of the tyme past that he was before Paules arriual vnto Caesarea Deacō not that he was so when he arriued For then the interpreters would haue turned the participle which serueth boeth for the tyme past and present according to the circumstance of the place which is one of the seuen and not vuhich vuas So that here we haue the common consent of al interpreters flatly against the D. namely that Phillip was not then Deacon when S. Paul came to Cesarea but had bene before That of M. Gualter maketh also against hym which placeth the Deacons office in the disposing of the church treasure and that they preached not but in tymes of necessity So that where M. Gualter permitteth preaching no more vnto Deacons then yow doe baptim vnto wemen yow wil haue it their standing office The difference betwene a Priest and a Deacon browght owt of Augustin and Epiphanius can by no meanes stand considering that that imposition of handes whereby giftes were extraordinarily giuen which Phillip absteyned from he did not absteyn from onely as Deacon but also as he was Euāgelist seing that was a thing peculier vnto the Apostles and a proper note whereby the lord magnified their ministerie
which affirmeth that al men preached in the Apostels tymes he can receiu no benefite of him in this place For if al did preach aswel as baptiz then it is true which I say that none had the ministery of the sacramentes but he which had the ministery of the word withal and vntrue which he affirmeth owt of Ambrose that some were ministers of the word which were not of the sacramentes Likewise is the testimony owt of M. Beza wherto I haue answered before flat against hym in this cause considering that his iudgment is that the Deacons did boeth preach and administer the sacramentes sometyme And as there is no harmony betwene hym and his autorityes so is there none betwene the sentences of his autors which he hath mashed togither For where some say al other say that Priestes onely baptized where he saith Musculus doeth alow that some should minister the sacramentes which can not preach yt is very true and further that he would rather haue yt doen by them then by those that can preach But his ground is vpon the misvnderstanding of Act. the 6 whilest he toke the ministring to tables which is the prouision for the poor for the ministring of the lordes supper The foundation therefore of his assertion being naught the assertion yt self can haue no place The place of the 1. Timoth. 5. is answered so is his question To return again therfore to his demaund where he asketh what point of Anabaptism it is that wemen may preach in the church when there is no other that can nor wil I answer that yt approcheth to that braunch whereby the Anabaptistes hould that meÌ„ may preach withowt an owtward calling of the church onely if they think it needful Vuhere I obiected his building vpon examples of a fevu particular persons vuhich alovueth not ours althovugh they be grounded vpon the general vse of the churches in the Apostels tyme he answereth that he buildeth no necessary rule but onely that yt may be doen vpon like occasion But this is but a vayn shift For those extraordinary actes whych are comendable were doen ether by expres coÌ„mandement or by special direction of the spirit of god the obedience whereunto was not at their chois to doe or to leau vndoen So that if the Ans wil haue these examples to be the directers of baptim by midwiues they not onely may but owght to doe yt And if there were any such case of necessity as he vntruly pretendeth and that yt might in such a case be ministered by wemen it were absurd to leau it in the chois of the Midwife whether she would minister it or no. But note I beseche yow what horrible confusion he bringeth into the world by this saying For if extraordinary examples doe proue that such thinges may be doen in such cases then may priuate men execute malefactors because Phinees did so and men may borow and neuer pay as did the Israelites If he say that he addeth vpon like occasion and circumstance it is true but thereby he meaneth yf like need or necessity be For if he mean as he owght hauing a particular commandement of god by word or a rare and extraordinary instinct by the spirit of god his answer is nothing to purpose considering that he wil not I think say that the Midwiues haue any of these two and if they had they doe it not in respect of the former example but onely by reason of the extraordinary ether commandement or motion His example of the Samaritan woman Iohn 4 is friuolous that she should become a publik preacher which had not yet learned her catechism nor was scarce owt of her Christian A. B. C. where it is manifest that she did nothing which belongeth not to euery one that is that we should exhort one another to goe where the knowledg of Christ is to be had so that she did onely as it were towl the bel to draw the Samaritanes to our Sau. Christ that he might preach vnto them Nether doeth his other example of the wemen Math. 28 which preached the resurrection help him For if that may be called a publik ministery it hath an expres commandement of the lord by the Angel. which commandement as oft as Midwiues can shew we wil acknowledg their ministery lawful otherwise the general commandement which we are bound to folow is direct against their preaching which being shewed of me is vnanswered by hym So that here he merely trifleth often saiyng that there is nothing against the baptim by wemen and neuer answering the scriptures alledged wherby it is generally forbiddeÌ„ theÌ„ to deal in these matters To that I concluded of his wordes wemen may preach if there be no man that ether can or wil that vuemen by that meanes haue his licence to preach in diuers places he answereth it needeth not seing the scriptures are red in al places But that is but an escape considering that althowgh they haue a reader yet they haue no preacher reading not being preaching as I haue a shewed And who seeth not that many with vs for want of teaching ly in horrible ignorance of the truth so that by his rule this is the tyme in which wemen may teach openly with vs. But here again he opposeth M. Caluin which saith there is a tyme wherein a woman may speak Yf he mean in her own how 's or otherwhere priuatâ—ly I graunt if publikly in the church vpon an extraordinary calling I graunt that also otherwise I can not graunt it for the reasons before and after alledged And that M. Caluin had no such meaning as he pretendeth appeareth in that he wil at no hand admit baptim by wemen to whome althowgh he oppose Zuinglius yet he sheweth not nor I think is able to shew that he alloweth of baptim by Midwiues The next diuision which sheweth that godly vuemen neuer toke the ministery of the vuord but by extraordinary calling from god approued ether by miracle or some not able yssu saith he is needles as that wherunto he agreeth which is not so For hereby is condemned the baptizing boeth by wemeÌ„ and other priuate persons whatsoeuer as that which hath no such calling and approbation of god The next to it sheweth his pouerty which endeuoring to defend the baptim by wemen was ignorant of the principal hould of that cause and was needfully met with for their sakes whom that might trouble In he next he would insinuate that they may baptiz in the how 's for that S. Paul biddeth them teach in priuat places where if he had made his argument iust and to clasp wel togither he should haue concluded that they owght to teach their howshold in priuate places therefore they owght to baptiz in priuate places and they owght to teach their families ordinarily therefore they owght to baptiz their families ordinarily thus must the argument be cut owt according to his measure and he