of the. 2. to the Corinthians the eyght chapter In the. 14. of the Actes verse 23. for the whiche you haue quoted the. 13. it is thus written When they that is Paule and Barnabas had ordeyned them elders by election for so is some translation in euery Church and prayed and fasted c. The texte is playne that Paule and Barnabas did ordeyne them Elders T. C. Pag. 29. Sect. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. Unto these places of the first and sixte of the Actes is added firste the place of the fourtenth of the Actes where the authors of the Admonition doe proue that the election ought not to be in one man his hande but ought to be made by the Churche agaynst which master Doctor taketh three exceptions The first is for that it is sayde that Paule and Barnabas ordeined Elders whereby he woulde conclude that the congregations had nothing to doe But howe slender a reason that is it may be considered of infinite places in the Scripture whereof I will recite two or three In the fifthe Chapter of Iosua it is sayde that Iosua made him sharpe knyues for the circumcising of the children of Israell and a little afterwardes that Iosua circumcised them Shall we now vpon these words conclude y t Iosua dyd make the kniues himselfe or was a Cutler or beeing made to his hande did whette them and sharpen them or shall we saye that he dyd circumcise the children of Israell in his owne person and himselfe alone when as that was done by many and by the Leuites to whome that offyce apperteyned No but the Scripture declareth that Iosua procured sharpe knyues to be made and exhorted and commaunded the people to be circumcised In the eyghtenth of Exodus it is sayde that Moses dyd appoynt vnto the people Princes Captaynes ouer thousandes and hundrethes c. And if any conciude therevpon that he dyd it 1. Chap. verse 15. himselfe alone he is by and by confuted by that whiche is written in Deuteronomie where it appeareth that the people dyd choose them and presented them to Moses What is it then that is sayde in Erodus that Moses appoynted them but that Moses assembled the people and exhorted them to appoynt rulers and tolde them what maner of men they shoulde be and in a worde sate as it were moderatour in that election To come to the newe Testament In the Actes it is sayde that Paule and Timothie deliuered Act. 16. vnto the Churches the orders and decrees of the Apostles and Elders and yet it appeareth in another place that the Churche had also to doe and gaue their consent vnto the making Act. 15. verse 23. of those decrees so that the former place meaneth that the Apostles and Elders dyd go before and were the chiefe and directors of that action The same maner of speache is vsed of the * You say so but you shewe not one Romane stories wherein it is sayde that the Counsell dyd make Magistrates for because that he gathered the assembly and voyces whereby they were made and so S. Luke saythe heere that Paule and Barnabas ordeyned bicause they beeing the moderators of the election caused it to be made assembled the Churches tolde them of the necessitie of hauing good pastors and gouernoures gathered the voyces tooke heede that nothing should be done lightly nothing tumultuously or out of order And so to conclude it is an euill reason to say as M. Doctor dothe that bicause S. Luke hath that Paule and Barnabas ordeyned therefore the people were excluded Io. Whitgifte If the reason groūded vpon the playne words of the scripture be but a slender reason then do I confesse that to be so likewise Howbeit very godly and learned men thinke it a reason sufficient Zuinglius in his Eccless sayth that some were called elected Zuinglius Bullinger to the ministerie of the worde by the Apostles onely Bullinger in his thirde booke aduersus Anabap. Cap. 4. sayth thus Paulus Barnabas presbyteros seu ministros elege unt in ecclesijs Asiae Paule and Barnabas did choose Elders or Ministers in the Churches of Asia Those places of Scripture that you recite may proue that there are suche maner of speaches in the scripture but they proue not that this is suche and therefore you haue in vayne rehearsed them The example of Iosua is farre from prouyng thys phrase to bée suche sor you affirme that Iosua is sayde to make sharpe knyues and to Circumcic onelye bycause hcc procured sharpe knyues to bee made and commaunded the people to bee circumcided and not bycause hee hym selfe bydde sharpen the knyues or circumcyde in hys owne person But it is certaine that Paule and Barnabas had to doe in this action and didde themselues in theyr owne persons ordeyne ministers and not commaunde others to ordeyne them Wherefore the manner of speache can not bée lyke excepte you will expounde thys place thus Paule and Barnabas ordeyned them Elders that is commaunded the people to choose them Elders whyche interpretation were straunge for thys place and vnhearde of beefore That in the syrste of Deuteronomie dothe not directely proue that Moyses alone didde not appoynte those Magistrates for althoughe he wylled the people to bryng vnto him menne of wysedome and of vnderstandyng c. yet it followeth not that they didde so but it rather appeareth that they commytted the choyse of them wholly to hym for after in the fyftéenth verse of the same Chapter he sayeth So I tooke the chiefe of youre tribes wyse and knowne men and made Deu. 1. Ver. 15. them rulers c. Manyfest it is that whether the people named any vnto hym or no he appoynted them and gaue them theyr authoritie so that the maner of speache is proper and without any trope or figure But doe you not still secretly pushe at the authoritie of the Ciuill Magistrate T. C. vnder an other pretence pusheth at the ciuill Magistrate vnder the pretence of speakyng agaynst the state Ecclesiasticall For howesoeuer you woulde séeme to bryng in the place in the eightéenth of Exodus to proue the phrase and manner of speaking yet maye you bée thoughte secretely to insinuate that Princes maye not appoynte vnder-officers without the Election of the people And surely if your dealing in this place bée well marked it may easily be séene that in reasonyng agaynst the gouernemente of the Churche you laye the groundes of confoundyng or at the leaste of chaungyng the state of the Common wealth In the fiftéenth of the Actes ver 22. and. 23. there appeareth that the whole Churche together wyth the Apostles and Elders didde sende certayne chosen menne of theyr owne companye to Antiochia wyth Paule and Barnabas c. and wrote Letters by them conteynyng these Decrées wherevnto though the people subscribed and gaue theyr consente yet it followeth not but that the Apostles and Elders made them As it also appeareth verse 2. and. 6. of the same chapter
than for many cities one Or what is he that is so watchefull and circumspecte whose diligence and watchefulnesse one citie assaulted with enimies will not wholly occupie and take vp Or what is he whose sighte is so sharpe that he can see from one ende of the Diocesse or Prouince or realme to the other ende thereof Or what is he that will committe the keeping of twentie thousande sheepe to one man that looketh for any good or encrease of them Howe shall all these heare his whistle howe shall all knowe his voyce when they can not heare it Howe shall they acknowledge him when they can not knowe him howe shall they followe him when they can not see him goe before howe shall he heale their diseases when he can not possibly knowe them But some man will saye that these are humaine reasons and likelyhoodes whiche may be ouerthrowne with other similitudes These notwithstanding are Analogies drawne from the nature of those things which the Ministers are likened vnto and are of the moste parte vsed of the holy Ghost him selfe expressely Io. Whitgifte It is a great poynte of good husbandrie and pollicie also to haue besides the seuerall shepheardes ouer seuerall flockes and sundry watchemen ouer sundry Cities diuers other to féede the shéepe as occasion serueth and to admonishe the watchemen and the Cities of their dueties else why dydde the Apostles after they hadde planted the Churches and placed Shepheardes and watchemen ouer them so diligentlye afterwardes vysite them and so carefullye looke vnto them as we reade Actes 14. 15. 18 Was the watche thinke you the worse kepte or the shéepe the negligentlyer looked vnto The pollicie that Darius vsed Daniel 6. when he appoynted a hundreth and twenty gouernours ouer all hys Realme and ouer them thrée to ouersée them and take an accompte of their doinges is greatly commended and why maye not this pollicie be necessarie in the Ecclesiasticall state also But you héere runne smothely away with the matter and suppose that there may not be for seuerall Cities and seuerall flockes seuerall watchemen and shepheardes bicause there be some that haue a generall care ouer many flockes and Cities If a thousande Townes or Cities haue a thousande watchemen appoynted vnto them to haue the particular care ouer them and also one two or moe to haue a generall care bothe ouer the watchemen and ouer the Cities also doe you not thinke that all shall be in better order and in muche more safetie But your similitudes fayle maruellously in sundrie poyntes whiche I muste Similitudes are but weak arguments admonishe you of bicause you glorie so muche in them and thinke that you haue reasoned strongly when you haue vsed the weakest kinde of argument that can be to proue any thing for as the Logitians saye Similitudo rem illustrat sed non probat A similitude maketh a matter playne but proueth it not And it is easely ouerthrowne by shewing the vnlikelyhoode In this the similitude agréeth that as euery Citie muste haue a watcheman and euery flocke a shephearde so euery Churche or Parishe muste haue a watcheman or a Pastour and as the watchman and shephearde his office is to watche and to féede and to haue a necessarie care ouer their charges so muste also the Spirituall watcheman and shephearde haue a care ouer the people committed vnto them All this is true and neyther proueth nor improueth any thing that is in question I mighte as well saye that if the Citie be well watched and the flocke carefully looked vnto thoughe it be not by the watcheman or shephearde him selfe but by his meanes and procurement there can be no iuste faulte founde with eyther of them Likewyse that when the shephearde hathe broughte his shéepe into a pasture where they maye bothe be sure from all daunger and haue meate sufficient then his presence is not so necessarie for them so that he doe sometymes visite them Also that there is no one watcheman that eyther dothe or can watche continually but muste of necessitie haue his reste so that some other supplie hys absence and likewyse that there is no master shephearde but that he hathe some vnder him eyther boye or man to supply his absence whylest he is aboute other matters To be shorte that one shephearde hathe care ouer sundrie mennes shéepe sundrie flockes of sundrie Townes and Parishes c. Dyuers other suche similitudes of shepheardes and watchemen mighte I also vse to proue many thinges contrarie to your meaning I mighte also shewe vnto you the dissimilitude betwixte a temporall shephearde and a spirituall shephearde vnreasonable shéepe that can not féede them selues or by any meanes prouyde for them selues nor haue any charge so looke to them selues and reasonable shéepe suche as God hathe endued with knowledge to whome hée hathe lefte hys wóorde whyche conteyneth in it suffyciente to saluation whome he hathe charged to reade it and to heare it who shall also answere for them selues c. Finally ▪ what difference there is betwixte temporall meate and drinke whiche is soone digested and therefore dayly to be renewed and spirituall foode whiche continueth and whereof he that hath once sufficiently tasted shall not hunger or thirst c. These I saye and a greate number of other dissimilitudes coulde I bring to ouerthrowe all that you can buylde vpon these similitudes I mighte further saye that in the Prophetes and other places of the Scriptures Kinges and mightie Princes that haue ample and large Dominions be called Ierem. 〈◊〉 bothe shepheardes and watchemen as namely in Ieremy 2 Ezechiell 34. c. and Ezech. 34. therefore all those your reasons mighte aswell be alleadged agaynst them and of them also mighte you saye What is he whose sighte is so sharpe that he can see from one ende of the Diocesse Prouince or Realme to another For these names be as common and as vsuall to Kinges and Princes as they be to Ministers of the worde and Bishops And truely if these similitudes sinke once into the peoples heades and bée applyed vnto ciuill gouernment agaynst whiche they bée as forceable as agaynst the ecclesiasticall they will as easily and farre more easily stirre them vp to séeke alteration in that also Chap. 1. the. 7. Diuision T. C. Pag. 43. Sect. 4. 5. But that there be no controuersie lefte in this poynte what is (*) No man douteth what a flocke is and yet you haue inuented a straunge definition a flocke S. Paule defineth it playnely when he saythe appoynt Pastors or Elders or Bishops for these wordes are indifferently vsed throughe not euery Shire or Prouince or Realme but throughe euery Citie or Towne And least that any man shoulde heere take occasion to conclude that then it is lawfull for one man to bee Bishoppe or Pastor of a whole Citie suche as London or Yorke c. S. Luke in the Actes dothe declare the meaning of this place where he sayth that they appoynted Elders throughout
order Wherby it should seeme that they haue learned to allowe of a prescript order of prayers but not of that prescript order which is in the booke of publike prayers This is no dallying neyther yet inconstancie For the. 3. of Mat. ver 12. is placed 3. of Mat. ver 1. to proue that in the olde time the word was preached before the sacramēts were ministred the place now alleaged is this In those dayes Iohn the Baptist came and preached in the vvildernesse of Iudea This proueth that Iohnpreached but it proueth not that whensoeuer Iohn did baptise then he did preache Oueragaynst these words the Nicene creede was not read in their cōmunion A protestation by the way is written in the margent Note that we condemne not the doctrine conteyned therein If you condemne not the doctrine therin what do you then cōdemne or why mislike you the cōmunion bicause that creede conteyning true doctrine is read at the celebration therof It is well that you make this protestation if you meane good fayth Here is also added the. 42. ver Act. 2. to proue that then the sacrament was ministred with cōmon vsual bread which place I haue answered before in answering to the. 46. verse of that chapter Where as before it was thus interrogatories ministred to the Infant Godfathers They allowe godfathers godmothers at the last and Godmothers brought in by Higinus nowe Godfathers and Godmothers brought it by Higinus is left out It is happy that you are sosoone persuaded to allow of godfathers and godmothers I perceyue you tooke vpon you to set downe a platforme of a Church before you had well considered of it Fol. 4. For some one of the congregation is nowe some of the congregation wherby they seeme to allowe mo godfathers than one whiche they dyd not before For the. 14. of the Acts verse 4. is noted the. 15. of the Acts vers 4. to proue that the office of Seniors was to gouerne the Church with the rest of the ministers but without reason For it is onely there written that at Ierusalem there was Apostles and Elders that Paule and Barnabas declared vnto them what things God had done by them I denie not the thing it selfe whereof I haue sufficiently spoken before but the argument These Seniors then bicause their charge was not ouer muche did execute their office in their owne persons Nowe these words bicause their charge was not ouer much be lefte out Wherfore they haue left them out I knowe not Fol. 5. They haue lefte out Doctors three tymes in this leafe whiche before they recited with Chauncelors Archdeacons Officials Commissaries Why Doctors of 〈◊〉 be left out Proctors Belyke they haue remembred that this worde Doctor is founde in the newe Testament and especially Doctor of lawe To proue equalitie of ministers they haue added Phil. 1. verse 1. 1. Thes. 1. 1. The first place is this Paule and Timotheus the seruaunts of Iesus Christ to all Saincts in Christ Iesus that are at Philippi vvith the Bishops and Deacons The seconde is this Paule and Syluanus and Timotheus vnto the Church of the Thessalonians c. Truely I knowe not howe to conclude of those places an equalitie of all ministers I would to God you would set downe your places and frame your arguments yourselues Fol. 6. They haue forgotten to quote Heb. 6. 1. and haue left out the body and Tayle of Antichrist braunche of Antichrist and for the same haue put in the tayle But these are but trifles and very slender corrections Io. Whitgifte To all these there is nothing sayde belike the Authors of the Admonition muste answere for them selues or else prouide another Proctor Ansvvere to the additions c. of the seconde parte of the admonition Fol. 2. For the first of Tim. 3. verse 3. nowe they haue quoted 1. Tim. 3. verse 6. agaynst reading ministers Where S. Paul would not haue a minister to be a yong scholer but he speaketh nothing agaynst reading T. C. Pag. 173. Sect. 2. Unto the seconde leafe of the addition of the second parte of the Admonition M. Doctor sayth that bicause the. 3. to Titus maketh not agaynst reading therfore it maketh not agaynst reading ministers that is ministers that can doe nothing but reade Io. Whitgifte It is in the. 1. Tim. 3. and it maketh agaynst vnlearned Ministers not agaynst the reading of Ministers for he may be a reading Minister and yet learned Ansvvere to the Detractions c. It was before reading is not feeding nowe it is thus amended for Correction of a sodeyne bare reading of the worde and single seruice saying is bare feeding whereby they now confesse that reading is feeding although it be as they say but bare feeding We were in good case if the platforme of our Church depended vpon these men which alter their iudgements so sodenly It is a true saying Conueniet nulli qui secum dissidet ipse Hovve can he agree vvith other that doth not agree vvith himselfe T. C. Pag. 173. Sect. vlt. And where as he would picke out a contradiction in the wordes of the Admonition bicause they say bare reading is but bare feeding the discord is in his cares not in their wordes For when they sayde it was no feeding they ment such feeding as could saue them and so in calling it bare feeding they note that there is not (*) This is anec m and contrarie to that which ou haue pa. 158. 〈◊〉 15. c. inaugh in that to keepe them from famishment And indeede vnlesse the Lord worke miraculously and extraordinarily which is not to be looked for of vs the bare reading of the scriptures without the preaching cannot deliuer so much as one poore shepe frō destruction and from the wolfe And if some haue bene conuerted wonderfully yet M. D. should remember that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 That is the water doth not alway beare yron Io. Whitgifte Reading is not feeding and reading is beare feeding be both vntruthes and derogate from the Maiestie and dignitie of the worde of God but yet in these speaches there is contrarietie for bare féeding is féeding What they ment by not feeding their words following doe declare for say they it is as euill as playing vpon a stage and worse to c. The Replier falleth into contrarietie whiles he seeketh to cleare the Admonition of it whereof I haue spoken before But whilst-you go about to excuse them of contrarietie you fall into it your selfe for page 158. of your booke comparing the reading of the Scriptures with reading of Homilies yeu say that the worde of God is also plaine and easie to be vnderstanded such as giueth vnderstanding to Idiots and to the simple c. And now you say that there is not enough in the reading of the scrptures to keepe the people from famishment c. the which how farre it differeth from your former words no man is so blind Pag.
determination of the church ought not lightly to be altered 89 ¶ Churching of women 534. c. The cause of the womans absence from the church after hir dehuerance 535 ¶ Circumstances necessarie are commaunded 512 ¶ Circumcision a sacrament 618 Circumcision in priuate houses 515 ¶ Cypriā chooseth without consent of the people 205 Cyprian of the office of an Archbishop 354. c. 367. c. Cyprian a Metropolitane 356. 438. 470. ¶ Ciuil offices in Ministers 749. c. Ciuill offices in our Ministers tend to the gouernment of the church pag. 75 Ciuill authoritie not claimed but committed to our Bishops 752 Some Ciuill offices rather helpes than hinderances to Bishops 753 Augustine iudgeth ciuill causes pag. 772. Ciuil iurisdiction that the Pope claimeth not like to that in vse in this church 759. 778 A greater ciuill iurisdiction sought for in disprouing the lesse 760 Ciuil iurisdictiō in vse in this church is in some respect ecclesiasticall pag. 766. 771 Ciuill and Ecclesiasticall offices met in one 767. 771. Ciuil offices in ministers not against the word of God 773. The practise of the Church for ciuil offices in ministers 773. Ciuill businesse incident to Byshops by the iudgemente of the holye Ghost 772. 774. ¶ Clement 319. c. Clements Epistle read in the church pag. 719. ¶ Collect vpon Trinitie Sunday 491 Collect of the 12. Sunday after Trinitie Sunday 491. ¶ Coemiteria 250. ¶ Commaundementes of diuerse kindes 103. All the commaundementes of God and of the Apostles are not nedefull for our saluation 103. ¶ Cōmunitie in the Apostles times pag. 162. ¶ Comelinesse externall is alterable 98. The iudgement of comelinesse resteth not in priuate men 87. ¶ Communion Booke 474. c. Communion in priuate places 5 4. 525. Communion ministred to the sicke pag. 527. c Of the number of Communicantes pag. 528. c. Basill would haue 12. at the least to communicate 530. Of compelling men to communicate 531. 532. 605. Men not meete to cōmunicate may be admitted to the hearing of the word and prayer 533. The Apostles began the communion wyth the Lordes prayer 588. 602. Matters touching the Communion pag. 588. c. Examination of Communicantes pag. 591. c. Two things worthie to be noted of Communicantes 592. Examination of communicants not disallowed 593. Communion bread 593. c. Alexander appoynted vnleauened breed 594. Bucers opinion of Communion bread 594. Caluines opinion of Communion bread 594. Christ vsed vnleauened bread 595. The kinde of bread indifferent 595. Communion at mariages 724. Of shutting mē from the Communion 603. Men persisting in wickednesse are not to be compelled to the communion 605. Halfe communion 737. The makers of the Communion booke praised 711. ¶ Companions of Paule chosen by consent and why 163. ¶ Comparisons vnequall 710. ¶ Conferēce a cause of better know ledge 176. Conference offered to the Replyer hath bene by him refused 354. 7. ¶ Confirmation 725. c 785. 786. Abuse of confirmation in the Popishe Church 786. Confirmation of old time like ours pag. 786. Confirmation at the length allowed 794. The ende of confirmation 794. ¶ Confusion follovveth the doctrin of the Admonitors 3. 559. 746. ¶ Conscientia mille testes 503. ¶ Consuls and their authoritie 396. ¶ Constantine made Ecclesiasticall lawes 698 ¶ Contention defended 34. 377. Contentiō a hinderance to the profession of diuinitie 141. VVho be contentious 13. 14. ¶ Contraries may be defined wyth one difference 124 Some delighte to be contrarie to tymes 283. Men of contrarie iudgement ioy ne against the truth 51. Howe contraries muste be cured by contraries 476. ¶ Conuenticles 41. ¶ Corruption 485 Corruption in the Churche in the Apostles time 349. ¶ Councels summoned by princes page 436 Varietie about the time of the coūcell of Nice 330. The meaning of the. 6. Can. of the councell of Nice Controuersie about the number of Canons of the councell of Nyce page 334. The seconde councell of Nyce alleaged by the Replyer 247. A corrupt councell of Vrbane alleaged by the Replyer 23. A corrupt councell of Hispall alleaged by the Replyer 442. ¶ Courtes of Byshops 679. c. Court of faculties 561. Ecclesiasticall courtes executed in the Princes name 680. ¶ Crossing in Baptisme 614. c. Difference betwixt the papists crossing and ours 616. Crossing no Sacrament 617. ¶ Curates allowed 245. ¶ Cursed things consecrated to god page 284. D. ¶ Damasus alleaged to a wrong pur pose 248. Damasus added Gloria patri 489. ¶ Dayes obseruing of dayes 546. 547. 549. 〈◊〉 kindes of obseruing of Dayes 546 ¶ Deacons chosen by consent and vvhy 164 Of ministring preaching by Deacons 582. c Philip a Deacon baptised 582. 515 Deacons helpe in the ministration pag. 585 The Deaconship a step vnto the ministery 587 Deacons baptised 588. c. More pertayneth too the office of a Deacon than prouision for the poore 687. c. Some parte of the Deacons office not necessary vnder a Christian Prince 689. 690 VVhether Deacons were in euerye congregation 689 VVhy the Apostles left the Deaconship 758 ¶ Deanes 347. 746 ¶ Decrees pertayning too order not onely humane 107 ¶ Degrees of honour in the ministerie 458 Degrees in Diuinitie condemned 780. 781. Degrees in the Vniuersitie condemned 782 To take away Degrees is barbarousnesse 420 To be deliuered from euill what it signifieth 498 ¶ Demetrius bishop of Alexandria and Egypt 470 ¶ Defyling the nature of thinges is not in mans power 285 How farre the precepte in Deuteromie is extended 117 ¶ Digressions frō the matter to the persons 24. 235. 351. 370. 512. ¶ Dic Ecclesiae interpreted 636. 663 ¶ Dionisius Areopagita Archbishop of Athens 470. 324 Dionysius Ariopagite vsed of maister Ievvell agaynst Harding 608 Dionysius Alexandr Bishop of Alexandria and Pentapolis 470 Dionysius Corinthius b 719 Dionysius Corinth his epistles read in the Church 719 Dionysius deuided parishes 249. 250. ¶ Dioscorus Archbishop 338. 471. ¶ Discipline necessarie 559 Matters concerning Discipline 660 VVherein Discipline consisteth 661 The execution of Discipline not gyuen equally to all 313 ¶ Distinction quoad ministerium quoad ordinem iustified 390 Disobedience in ciuill matters is disobedience to God 282 Dissention domesticall the fo erunner of Destruction 705 ¶ Doctors of law left out of the Admonition and way 783 ¶ Doctrine framed to mens persons pag. 148 All pointes of Doctrine pure in this Church 129 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 interpreted 461 ¶ Dominion hath diuerse significations 63 Some kind of temporall Dominion denied to ministers 64 A minister maye exercise temporall Dominion 64. 65 ¶ Donatists and their properties 50. 622. ¶ A doubtfull saying 255 ¶ Drun kardes in the visible church pag. 177 E ¶ Easter obserued of the Apostles pag. 〈◊〉 ¶ King Edwardes priestes left 〈◊〉 pag. 〈◊〉 ¶ Elections act 1. act 6. agree 〈◊〉 pag. 〈◊〉 Elections by the people not 〈◊〉 in the Apostles time 〈◊〉 Elections by the people not generall in
25. Diuision T. C. Pag. 65. Sect. 3. Then I say that it is too too vnskilfully done to separate order and discipline from then that haue the ministerie of the woorde in hand as though the Church without Archbishops and Archdeacons ▪ were acōfused heape and a disordered lumpe when as S. Paule teacheth it to be without them a bodie consisting of all his partes and members comely knitte and ioyned together wherein nothing wanteth nor nothing is to much Io. Whitgifte Order and discipline are not separated from the ministery of the worde although all such Authoritie to execute discipline is not equally giuen to all as be ministers of the woorde haue not the like authoritie to execute them For as it is sayd in that Latine booke for order and policies sake more is graunted to the Archbishop than to the Bishop neither will any learned man so greatly maruayle at this seing the practise thereof was in the Apostles time For Paule had more large and ample authoritie than Timothie and Timothie than the resse of the ministers of Ephesus What if the Church without Archbishops and Archdeacons were perfect in S. Paules time and may be perfect at other times doth it therefore follow that the Church in no time or stare may haue them or rather that they be not necessarie at some time for the Churche In S. Paules time Apostles Prophets workers of miracles giftes of healing diuersitie of tongs were counted necessarie and principall partes of this body which not with standing you confesse now to be cut of and yet the bodie perfect So that you see this is no reason at all to say that the Church in S. Paules time was a perfect body without Archbyshops and Archdeacons Ergo they are not necessary in the Church of Christ. For I might as well reason thus The Church of Christe in S. Paules time was not perfect without Apostles Prophets doers of miracles giftes of healing diuersitie of tongs therefore it is not now perfect being without them And likewise it was then perfect without Christian magistrates The vnskilfull reasoning of T. C. openeth a bore to Anabaptisme Ergo Christian magistrates are to be remoued from the Church This kinde of reasoning as it is vnskilfull bicause it doth not distinguish the times of the Churche neither considereth necessarie circumstances so it is moste perilous and openeth a dore to Anabaptisme and confusion Moreouer I told you before that although this name Archbishop is not expressed The office of the Archbishop expressed in scripture in the Scripture yet is the office and function as it is euidently to be séene in the examples of Timothie and Titus yea and in the Apostles themselues whose office of planting Churches thorough the whole world is ceassed but their care for the good gouernment of those Churches which were planted and their authoritie ouer those Pastors whom they placed doth and must remayne in such places where there are Churches And therefore M. Bucer writing vpon the fourth to the Ephesians sayth Bucer in Eph. thus Miletum Presbiteros Ecclesiae Ephesinae conuocat tamen quia vnus inter eos praeerat alijs primam Ecclesiaecuram habebat in eo propriè residebat nomen Episcopi In the Actes Paule calleth the same men Bishops and Elders when as he called together the ministers of the Church of Ephesus vnto Miletum yet bicause one amongst them did rule ouer the reste and had the chiefe care of the Churche the name of Bishop did properly remayne in him So that this superioritie and iurisdiction which we speake of was euen in the Apostles time as it is more at large afterward proued Chap. 1. the. 26. Diuision T. C. Pag. 65. Sect. 3. Doth it not pertayne to order that the Apostle sayth that God hath set first Apostles secondly Prophets thirdly teachers are not these wordes First Second Thirde differences of order if this be not order surely I know not what order is And yet neyther Archbishop nor Archdeacon author of this and it was kept also before they were hatched Io. Whitgifte Yes but will you haue the same order now then muste you haue Apostles and Prophets which you denie so that this order you sée is not perpetuall wherefore from time to time that order among the ministers of the woorde muste be obserued That order multe be obserued which is conuenient for the state that is most conuenient for the state of the Church Neyther is any agaynst such order but those that will not liue in order Did euer any man denie but that there was order in the Apostles tyme All this is but to make the reader beleue that some such thing is in that Latin booke when there is not one woorde whereof any such thing can be gathered is this your simplicitie Chap. 1. the. 27. Diuision T. C. Pag. 65. Sect. 4. Let vs see of discipline and gouernment which we may see to be cōmitted to those which haue the preaching of the worde and to others also which did not preach the worde when S. Paule 1. Tim. 5. sayth that the elders which gouerne well are worthie double honour especially those which trauell in the word where he appoynteth the gouernment to the ministers of the word to those also that were not ministers of the worde And therevpon it followeth that the ministers of the Church ar not seuered one from an other as you bycause some haue the ministration of the worde and Sacraments only and some with the administration of the Sacraments and worde haue also the gouernment and discipline in their handes but cleane contrarywise S. Paule distinguisheth them and sheweth that all the ministers in the Church haue the gouernment but all haue not the worde to handle so that he distinguisheth the ministery into that which is occupied in the worde and gouernment and into that which is occupied in the gouernment onely But in this distinction you do not onely forget S. Paule but you forget your selfe For if S. Paule speake in that place of those that meddle with the ministring of the worde and sacraments (*) You falsifie my woordes by displacing the worde only only why doth the bishop which is one of the ministers that S. Paule speaketh of beyng the same that pastor is why I say doth he meddle with the discipline and order of the Church seyng that belongeth not to him by your distinction why doth also the Archbyshop whom you say is a byshop meddle with it And thus you see you neede no other aduersary than your selfe to confute you Io. Whitgifte The reader should better haue vnderstoode what you had gone aboute if you had set before his eyes the wordes that you confute Now I scarce vnderstand your meaning my selfe You shote altogether without a marke I know no man that denieth discipline and gouernment to be committed to those that haue the preaching of the worde and to others also which preach not the worde But if
vntill I heare some proofe or authoritie to the contrarie Howbeit the waight of the cause lieth not vpon this text this is but one reason among diuerse Chap. 2. the. 6. Diuision T. C. Pag. 127. Sect. vlt. But M. Doctor heareth with his left eare and readeth with his lefte eye as though his right eye were pulled out or his right are cut of For otherwise the other wordes which they haue touching this matter might easily haue bene expounded by the argument and matter whiche they handle Io. Whitgifte How doth it then happen that you haue not salued the matter by setting downe theyr wordes and declaring how I haue mistaken them seyng you haue omitted that men may well thinke that this is not vttered of you in good earnest Now that you haue sayde all in this matter you must giue me leaue to let the Reader vnderstande what you haue lefte vntouched in my booke concerning the same whither it be bycause you consent vnto it or that you cannot answere it I referre to his discretion ¶ The profite of Reading Scriptures in the Churche Chap. 3. the. 1. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 90. Sect. 5. 6. Pag. 91. Sect. 2. 3. Isidorus sayth that reading bringeth great profit to the hearers Isidorus Tertul. in Apologet Tertullian sayth when we come togither to the reading of the holy Scriptures we feede our fayth with those heauenly voyces we rayse vp our affiance we fasten our hope And agayne he calleth the reading of the Scriptures the feeding of our fayth But what neede I speake any more of a matter so manifest you atly ioyne Hardinges opinion of reading scripture with the Papiste in this for in the confutation of the Apologie of the Church of England M. Harding calleth reading of the Scriptures to the people in the Churche a spirituall dumbnesse and a thing Parte 5. and in the. 15. Arti. of the Replie vnprofitable c. That to reade the Scriptures in the Churche is no new thing but most auncient and grounded vpon Gods worde it is manifest by that which is written in the. 4. of Luke where the Euangelist sayeth that Christe on the Sabboth daye going into the Synagogue Luc. 4. according to his accustomed manner rose vp to read and there vvas deliuered vnto him the booke of the Prophete Esay and as soone as he opened the booke he founde the place vvhere it vvas vvritten Spiritus Domini super me c. The spirite of the Lorde vpon me c. Likewise in the thirtenth of the Actes we reade that Paule and other of his company beyng in the Synagogue on the Sabboth day was sent vnto by the rulers of the Sinagogue Post lectionem legis Prophetarum After the reading Ad. 13. of the lavve and the Prophetes To knowe if they would make any exhortation to the people Iustinus Martyr Apolog. 2. pro Christianis sayth that in his time the manner Iustinus Mar yr was on the Sabboth day vvhen the people vvere gathered togither to haue the scriptur s read in the publike congregation and in the time of publike prayer for the space of one vvhole hovver Origen writing vpon Iosua Homil. 15. sayeth that the bookes of the Orig n. olde Testament vvere deliuered by the Apostles to be read in the Churches Cyprian lib. 2. Epist. 5. sayeth The Reader soundeth out the high and Cyprian heauenly vvordes he readeth out the Gospell of Christe c. Chrysostome vpon the Actes Homil. 19. The minister and common minister standeth vp and crieth vvith a lovvde voyce saying Keepe silence Chrysostome Augustine after that the Reader beginneth the prophesie of Esay Augustine speaking to the people sayeth Yee heard vvhen the Gospell vvas read Ye heard erevvhyle vvhen it vvas read if ye gaue eare to the reading dearely beloued vve haue heard in the lesson that hath bene read Admonition And that this is not the feeding that Christe spake of the Scriptures are playne d For reading ministers vievv these places Mala. 2. 7. Esay 56. 10 Zach. 11. 15 at 15. 14. Tim. 3. 3 Reading is not feeding but it is as euill as playing vpon a stage and worse too for players yet learne theyr partes without booke and these a mayny of them can scarcely read within booke These are emptie feeders e Math. 6. 22 darke eyes f Math. 9. 38 〈◊〉 3. ill workemen to hasten in the Lordes haruest g Luc. 14. 17 messangers that can not cal h Mat. 23. 34 Prophers that can not declare the will of the Lord i Math. 5. 13 vnsauerie salt k Mat. 15. 14 blind guides l Isay. 36. 10 sleepie watchmen m Cor. 4. 1. Luc 16. 1. vntrustie dispensers of Gods secretes n 2. Tim. 2. 15 euill deuiders of the worde o 〈◊〉 1. 9. weake to withstande the aduersarie p 2. T 3. 15. 16. not able to confute And to conclude so farre from making the man of God perfect to all good workes that rather the quite contrarie may be confirmed Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 161. Sect. 2. 3. For reading ministers you bid vs viewe these places Mala. 2. vers 7. Esay 56. 10. Zachar. 11. 15. Matth. 15. 14. 1. Timoth. 3. 3. The Prophete Malachie in the seconde chapter and seuenth verse sayeth on this sorte For the Priestes lippes shoulde preserue knovvledge and they shoulde seeke the lavve at his mouthe For he is the messenger of the Lord of hostes In whiche wordes the Prophete doth signifie that the Priestes ought to be learned in the lawe and able to instruct which no man denieth and if there be any crepte into the ministerie whiche a not able so to do it is to be ascribed eyther to the negligence of t Bishop and such as haue to do therein or to the necessitie of the Reading is profitable t me But here is nothing spoken agaynst reading for any thing that I can gather and if any man shoulde come vnto me and demaunde of me any question touching the lawe of God I thinke I shoulde better satisfie him if I did reade the wordes of the lawe vnto him than if I should make a long tedious discourse of myne owne to litle or no purpose It is the worde it selfe that pearceth and mou th the conscience I speake not this agaynst interpreting of the Scriptures or preaching Pag. 162. Sect. 1. 2. for I know they be both necessary but agaynst such as be enimies to the reading of them The places in the. 56. of Esay and in the eleuenth of zacharie tende to the same purpose they all speake agaynst ignorant foolish slouthfull gouernours and pastours there is nothing in them that condemneth or disaloweth readyng of the Scriptures or reading of Prayers No more is there in the fiftenth of Matthew nor 1. Timo 3. reade the places and you shal soone see with how litle iudgement they be quoted agaynst such ministers
speaking of Christians and it is a straunge matter that you dare be bolde to grounde any point of gouernment or doctrine vpon so simple slender coniectures For what reason call you this Paule Barnabas did appoynt by election elders in euery congregation c. but it is not lyke they did appoint diuerse ministers or Bishops which preached in euery congregation c. therefore in euery congregation there were besides those that preached other elders c. First I say that this argument doth consist only vpō a vaine cōiecture for it might be that the number of Preachers were suche that euery congregation where Paule Barnabas had to do might haue mo preachers than one But Lorde what moueth you to play the Sophister in so serious a cause so to dally in a matter so manifest for how can you conclude by any thing here spoken that Paule and Barnabas did ordeyne mo than one Pastor or Presbyter in one congregation for this that is sayde that they ordeyned Elders or ministers in euery congregation doth not importe that they ordeyned mo than one in euery congregation but that they ordeyned for diuers congregations diuerse ministers that is for euery congregation a Pastor Doth not the Apostle S. Paule ad Tit. 1. vse the like kinde of speache when he sayde Tit. 1. vnto him For this cause I left thee at Creta c. Vt constituas opidatim presbyteros c Where it is manifest as I sayde before that he meaneth Bishops and Pastors and yet his intent was not that Titus should appoynt for euery congregation many Pastors This is méere cauilling but to cut of all other doubtes M. Caluine is sufficient to determine this controuersie who expounding this place of the. 14. Acto doth vnderstand it of Pastors only Preachers His woordes be these Presbyteros bic vocari interpretor Caluine quibus iniunctum erat docendi munus I interprete those here to be called Presbyteros vnto whome the office of preaching was committed And a litle after Now whereas Luke sayth that they were appoynted ouer seuerall churches thereof may the difference betwene their office and the office of the Apostles be gathered for the Apostles had in no place any certayne abiding but went from place to place alwayes to found new churches but Pastors were euery where addicted to their proper Churches So saith Brentius likewise Constituerunt Brentius per singulas Ecclesias Presbyteros quos aliàs scriptura Episcopos aliàs Pastores vocat They appoynted thorough euery congregation Elders whom the scripture sometimes calleth Bishops sometimes Pastors So that this place of the Actes speaketh not one woorde of your Seniors And therefore you cannot expound it by that in the. 1. Tim. 5. though it serued your purpose as it doth not For Luke to my remembrance no where in the Actes doth take this woorde Presbyter for any other than such as haue authoritie to preach the worde minister the sacramēts except he meaneth y e elders of the Iewes Chap. 1. the. 4. Diuision Admonition Let vs come now to the third part which concerneth ecclesiasticall discipline the officers that haue to deale in this charge are chiefely three Ministers Preachers or Pastors of whom before Seniors or Elders and Deacons Concerning Seniors not only their office but their name also is out of this English Church vtterly remoued Theyr office was to q Act. 14. 4. 1. Cor. 12. 28. gouerne the church with the reste of the Ministers to consulte to admonish to correct and to order all thinges apperteyning to the state of the congregation Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 113. Somevvhat past the midst To proue that the office of Seniors was to gouerne the Churche with the rest of the ministers to consulte to admonish to correct and to order al things apperteyning to the state of the congregation you alleage Act. 14. the. 1. Corinth 12. In the 14. of the Actes it is writtē that Paule Barnabas ordeyned Elders at Antioche in euery Churche but there is not one worde spoken of their office therefore that text serueth not your purpose You haue alleaged this selfe same place twice before to proue that no minister of the worde ought to be placed in any congregation but by consent of the people that the election of ministers ought to be by the congregation now you alleage it to proue the office of your Seniors can it both be meant of Seniors and of the ministers of the worde being as you say distinct offices will you thus dally with the scripture and make it a nose of waxe as the Papistes terme it to wreast and wryth it which way you list here you must needes confesse eyther contradiction in your selues or falsification T. C. Pag. 138. Tovvardes the ende But M. Doctor sayth that there is no mention made of the office of such an Elder therefore that place maketh nothing to proue that there should be such Elders in euery congregation so M. Doctor write he careth not what he wryte Belike he thinketh the credite of his degree of Doctorship will giue waight to that which is light and pith to that which is frothe or else he woulde neuer answere thus For then I will if this be a good reason say that for so much as S. Luke doth not in that place describe the office of the Pastor or Bishop which preacheth the worde therefore that place proueth not that in euery congregation there should be a bishop or a Pastor Besides that M. Doctor taketh vp the Authours of the Admonition for reasoning negatiuely of the testimonie of all the Scriptures and yet he reasoneth negatiuely of one only sentence in the Scripture (*) An vntruth for he maketh no such conclusion For the would cōclude that for so much as there is no duety of a Senior described in that place therefore there is no duetie at all and consequently no Senior Io. Whitgifte The Authors of the Admonition Fol. 112. to proue that the office of the Senior was to gouerne the Churche with the rest of the ministers to c nsulte to admonish to correct and to order all thinges apperteyning to the state of the congregation alleage the. 14. of the Actes vers 4. 1. Cor. 12. vers 28. I declare in mine Answere how vnaptly these places are alleaged for that purpose beyng not one woorde there spoken of any such office of Seniors as it may appeare in the woordes themselues beyng placed before Nowe whether I make any suche reason as you frame in my name or no let the Reader iudge The places be quoted in the Admonition to proue the office of Seniors and not to proue that there were Seniors in euery congregation and you being not able to salue that their vnskilfulnesse make M. Doctor speake what you please and shifte of the matter after your accustomed manner I make not that conclusion you charge me with if I do set downe my woordes conuince me
that he had conspired with the Babilonians their mortall enimyes and layd to his charge that he was goyng to them when he was going to Beniamin Io. Whitgifte Who is so blynde as he that will not sée Doe they not in plaine wordes saye That the outwarde markes whereby a true Christian Churche is knowen are preaching of the worde purely ministring the Sacramentes sincerely and Ecclesiasticall discipline c Is not their whole drifte in the Admonition to proue That neither the worde is preached purely nor the Sacramentes sincerely ministred c. in this Chnrche of Englande and what doe T. C. willuigly peruerteth the words of y e Answere I otherwyse reporte of them be not my wordes playne where doe I affirme that they shoulde saye that the Churche of Englande is voyde of preaching and ministring the Sacramentes But let the Reader consider my wordes and accordingly iudge of your plaine dealing Where I write y t they in effect say the Church of England is voyde of these I am sure you will referre these to that whiche went before that is preaching of the worde purely ministring of the Sacramentes sincerely and ecclesiasticall discipline c. neither can you otherwise doe thoughe you woulde wrest my wordes neuer so violently and therefore that which I reporte of them is that they say this Church of England neither hath the worde purely preached nor the sacramentes sincerely ministred c. I make no greate difference betwixte purely and truely neyther dothe it followe Purely and truely that the worde of God is truely preached alwayes when the truth is preached For as a man maye doe Iusta not Iustè lust thyngs and yet not iustly so maye the truthe be preached and yet not truely A man maye doe that whiche is iuste vnwittingly or for gayne or for pleasure or for malice but then he dothe it not iustly Quid non ex babitu animo Euen so a man maye preache the true worde of God of affection of contention ambition for profite c. but then he dothe not preache it truely So that your distinction betwixt purely and truely is to no purpose Neyther dothe Saint Paule helpe you anye thyng at all but is cleane centrarye 1. Phi. vers 18. vnto you for in the ▪ 18. verse of the firste Chapter to the Philip. these be hys wordes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ c. whych in the Bible Printed at Geneua is thus translated VVhat then yet Christe is preached all manner wayes whether it be vnder a pretence or sincerely So you sée that there is no difference made betwixte sincerely and truely for the Greeke worde signifyeth truely And Maister Beza in hys notes vpon the same Chapter and. 16. verse expoundyng 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not purely saythe thus Non pu o scilicet animo quùm alio qui pura Beza esset doctrina to weete not wyth a pure mynde seeyng that otherwyse the doctrine is pure so that these aduerbes purely and truely in this place are referred not to the doctrine but to mynde of hym that teacheth ▪ I woulde wyshe that bothe you and others woulde cease from drawyng the Scriptures to youre phantasyes and affections That this is one reason of the Papistes to proue that we are not the Churche bycause we haue no true ministerie I maruell you can be ignorant séeyng there is nothing oft er in their mouthes Whether the authors of the Admonition reason in lyke manner or no tell me when you haue well consydered these wordes of theirs in the Epistle to the Reader Eyther must we haue a right-ministery of God and a ryghte gouernment of hys Churche accordyng to the Scriptures set vp both which we lacke or eise there can be no ryghte Religion Likewise when you haue wythoute parcialitie viewed the reste of their booke Truely I thinke him to be more than blynde that séeth not thys to be theyr kynde of reasoning Their meanyng is playne and the seconde Admonition maketh it plainer howsoeuer you woulde séeme to colour and cloake the matter for what other meanyng can it haue to saye that we haue no ryghte ▪ Religion and to speake so bitterly agaynst the whole forme of the Churche and the moste of suche things as be in the same I doe beléeue certaynely that there is some Papisticall practitioners among you neyther is it straunge for so conspired they wyth the Anabaptistes also as I haue declared and the Anabaptistes hated them as muche as you and pretended the sunplicitie of the worde of God as muche as you and bothe in pretence of zeale of puritie of lyfe and other qualities for the moste parte were equall vnto you And thoughe the Prophete Ieremie were vniustly accused yet doth not that improue any thing that I haue sayde for they are not the Prophete Ieremye neither in person office or cause neither yet haue I accused them vniustly in any thing Of the election of Ministers Tract 3. Of the triall of Ministers both in learnyng and conuersation Chap. 1. the first diuision Admonition The first is this For whereas in the olde Church atrial was had (l) Acts. 1. 11. Acts. 6. 3. 1. Tim. 3. 7. 8. Tit. 1 6. both of their abilitie to enstruct and of their godly conuersation also nowe by the letters commendatorie of some one man noble or other tag and rag learned and vnlearned of the basest (m) 1. Re. 12. 31. sorte of the people to the slaunder of the Gospell in the (n) Rom. 2. 14. mouthes of the aduersaries are freely receiued Ansvvere to the Admonition Page 36. It it true that in the olde Church tryall was had of their abilitie to instruct and of their godly conuersation But the place in the margent alleaged out of the firste Chapter of the Actes of the Apostles maketh nothing for that purpose beyng therein no mention at all of any tryall made eyther of learning or maners but onely of presenting two and of praying and casting of lottes And M. Clauine in his Institutions sayth plainely that out of this place of the Actes and example there can be no certaine rule gathered of electing and chosing Ministers for as that ministerie was extraordinarie so was the calling also Reade M. Caluine and you shall soone see how little this place so ofte in the margent quoted maketh for that purpose for the which it is quoted T. C. Pag. 23. Sect. 4. 5. Pag. 24. Sect. 1. 2. 3. 4. It maketh for the purpose which is alleaged out of the firste of the Actes to proue that there ought to be tryall of those which are chofen to the ministerie for when S. Peter sayth that such a one must be chosen as hath bene continually conuersant with our sauiour Christ and from the beginning of his preaching vntill the day wherin he ascended into heauen he ment nothing (a) Surelye that was not so much ment as that he might be a fitte witnesse of the doyngs of
Christ and of his resurrection else but that such a one should be chosen which was sufficiently instructed and had bene continually a scholler of our sauiour Christ and therefore fit to teache and to witnesse that which they had seene and whose godly conuersation was notorionsly knowne Besides that albeit those two Mathias and Barsabas were therfore set vp in the middest that the Church in the prayer that was made for their election might by seing them pray the earnestlyer for them yet it was also as much to say that if any coulde obiect any thing against them that he should preferre his obiection And whether they were examined or s the matter is not great neyther when it is sayd that a tryall shoulde be had it is ment that when the parties are famously knowne to those which haue the right of election that there shoulde be alwayes necessarily an apposing and examining so that the sufficiencie of doctrine and holynesse of life for the which cause the tryall and examination is commaunded be knowne and agreed vpon by them that chose it is enough And so these two beyng notoriously knowen and consented of by the Churche to be fitte men myght happely not be examyned but yet the wordes of Saynt Peter declare plainely that in the choyse of them there was regarde had to both their abilitie to teache and honestie of conuersation And althoughe there be certaine things extraordinarie in thys election (b) If all these be extraordinarie what haue you left in that election as ordinary or how proue you the other to be ordinarie more than some of these as that suche a one must be chosen which had been conuersant wyth our sauiour Christ and that there were two put vp for one place and that it was permitted to lottes to cast the Apostleship vpon one of them two as if the Lorde shoulde by the lottes from heauen tell who shoulde haue it yet it followeth not to saye that the reste of the things that are there vsed should not be practised in ordinarie callings for as much they will well agree with them And Maister Caluine in the place you alleage saythe that the ordinarie callings somewhat differ from the calling of the Apostles and after sheweth wherein that is in that they were appoynted immediatly of God and by hys mouthe whereby it appeareth that for the residue of those things whych are there mentioned he holdeth that they may well stande wyth the ordinarye elections Io. Whitgifte This Replie standeth all by coniectures it is certayne that there was no triall had of them bicause they were sufficiently knowne and therefore the texte without discretion alleaged to proue that there oughte to be a tryall of theyr abilitie to instruct c. If it had bene quoted to proue that suche as were admitted into the function were méete for the same bothe sor their lyfe and doctrine it had bene to some purpose I thynke it necessarye that suche as bée admitted into the ministerie vnlesse they bée verye well knowne shoulde be tryed bothe in learning and lyfe but this place maketh nothing at all for that purpose but rather contrarie for it speaketh of suche two as were well knowne and therefore néeded no tryall so that if wée conclude any thyng of that place it muste bée this that none oughte to bée admitted into the ministerie but suche as be well knowne and néede no tryall There was no other cause of presentyng them than that whyche is expressed in the texte and it is presumption to make the Scripture serue to maynteyn oure contentions agaynste the expresse woords and playn meaning If thys be a rule to be followed it muste be followed wholly for where haue you learned to adde or take from any lawe or rule prescribed in Gods woorde or howe doe ye knowe that this example must be followed in one thing and not in an other what speciall reuelation haue you to make any suche dismembring of this action No doubte thys example is extraordinarie and not of necessitie to bée followed The woordes of M. Caluine are playne that there can be no certaine rule gathered of this example for the electing of ministers bicause the calling of the Apostles doth something differ from the calling of other ministers Chap. 1. the second Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 36. In the sixt of the Actes mention is made of Deacons only whom you will not allowe to be ministers of the worde and therfore this place serueth not your tourne neyther is there any thing spoken of any tryall but only they are willed to looke out among them seauen men of honest report and full of the holie Ghost and wisdome to be appoynted Deacons T. C. Page 24. Sect. 5. And where you saye that the sixte of the Actes bycause it speaketh of Deacons is nothyng to the mater me thynke you shoulde haue easily vnderstanded that if a tryall bee necessarie in Deacons whiche is an vnder office in the Churche and hathe regarde but to one parte of the Churche whyche is the poore and is occupied in the distribution of money muche more it ought to be in an office of greater charge whiche hath respect to the whole Churche and is occupied in the dispensyug of the holy worde of God Io. Whitgifte That there shoulde be a tryall of suche as are to be admitted to the ministerie I thinke it moste conuenient as I tolde you before excepte the parties be sufficiently known to such as haue authoritie to admit them but I say that this place of the Acts dothe not proue it both bicause the office of a Deacon by their opinion is altogether distinct from the office of a minister of the woord the one perteyning to the body the other to the soule the one occupied aboute moneye the other in the woorde and also for that there is in that place no mention made of any triall That place rather proueth that whyche before was noted A t. 1. that suche onely shoulde be appoynted to that office as bée knowne by good experience to be fitte for suche a function Tell me one worde in that texte that signifieth any such tryall as the Admonition speaketh of Therfore I say againe as I sayd before that suche as be well knowne néede no farther tryall as both that example Act. 1. and this also Act. 6. manifestly declareth Chap. 1. the third Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 36. Sect. 1. The rule of Saincte Paule in the. 1. Timo. 3. and Tit. 1. is to bee The booke of ordering ministers iustified concerning examination folowed And the booke of ordring ministers and deacons set forth and allowed by this Church of England requireth that whosoeuer is to be admitted into the order of the ministerie should so be tried examined and proued both for learning and life as S. Paule there requireth Reade the booke with indifferencie and iudgement and thou canst not but greatly commend it If any man neglect his dutie in
when doe partiall and sinister affections more vtter themselues than when an election is committed to manie And where as you say that vpon one mannes reporte all the rest whyche haue interest in the election woulde not gyue theyr voyces so sieyghtly to any Experience teacheth you cleane contrarie for doe you not sée that in all suche Elections for the moste parte some one man ruleth the reste Moreouer where is the requeste of suche as bée in authoritie for any denyed in suche elections I coulde bring you a number of examples If the Election of the minister shoulde bée commytted to euery seuerall Parish doe you thynke that they woulde choose the méetest shoulde not the Lorde of the towne or some other among them of countenaunce leade them as he liste woulde they haue no respecte to theyr neyghboures chyldren thoughe not the méetest wōulde there be no contention among them would they not haue lyke people lyke Pastoure But of thys also more muste bée spoken in an other place That in the fyrste of the Actes is nothyng for youre purpose for there is no order of Election prescribed but an extraordinarie callyng to an extraordinarie office as I haue sayde before Neyther dydde the multitude presente them but onely the Apostles as M. Beza sayeth Lib. conf cap. 5. titu 35. Neyther were they examyned as is also declared and therefore that place altogether impertinent To that in the sixte of the Actes I haue answered sufficientely it proueth not examination And M. Beza in the aforenamed booke and Chapter sayeth plainly that Luke hathe not sette downe what the Churche did obserue in the election of Deacons and shortely after concludeth thus Certam igitur regulam non est quòd nimiùm curiosè quisquam hic praescribae sed si recta fuerit conscientia facilè fuerit pro temporum Beza lib. eonf cap. 5. locorum circumstantia definire quid expediat Therefore there is no cause why anye man shoulde here ouer-curiously prescribe anye certayne rule But if the conscience be vpryght it may be easy to determine what is conuenient for the circumstance of tyme and place And these woordes he speaketh of that place of the Actes But I The elections Act. 1. Act. 6. do nothing agree praye you answere mée this one question if you will make these two places Act. 1 Act. 6. rules whiche wée muste of necessitie follow in electing of ministers howe will you ioyne them together béeyng in nothyng lyke for Acto 1. the Apostles presented two to the people Acto 6. The whole multitude did present seuen to the Apostles Acto 1. they caste lottes Acto 6. they layde on handes Acto 1. they prayed to God to shewe whether of the two he had chosen Acto 6. there is no suche thyng Acto 1. of two that were presented one was chosen Acto 6. all were chosen that were presented so that there is great difference in the two places and therefore no prescript rules for vs to follow Chap. 1. the fy fte Diuision T. C. Page 24. Sect. vlt. Secondaryly I can not commende it for that that one man is the Archedeacon whiche muste examine the Pastors and iudge of their sufficiencie For what is the Archdeacon is he not a Deacon for he beyng the chiefe Deacon muste needes be also a Deacon himself And therfore although the chiefe Deacon yet inferiour to any of the Pastours and the * gyfts whych are 1. Tim. 3. requyred in him inferioure to those whiche are required in the Pastour and so to make hym iudge of the aptnesse and ablenes of the Pastor is to make the inferiour in giftes iudge of the superiour he that hathe by his calling lesse gyftes iudge of his which hath by his calling greate gifts which is nothyng else than to appoynte hym that hath but one eye to ouersee his syght that hath two Io. Whitgifte You will not stand in this reason I think when you haue somthing better remēbred T. C. reasoneth against himselfe your self wil you not haue the Archdeacon bicause he is but a deacon examine the Pastors and iudge of thier sufficiencie do you think y t bicause he is inferior to y e pastors the gifts requyred in hym inferioure to those whyche are required of the Pastours ▪ therefore hée is not méete to examine the Pastor and to iudge of his aptnesse What greater argument can be vsed agaynst your selfe for if this be true how can the people examine the pastors or iudge of their aptnesse being farre inferiour to Deacons in respecte of their office and in giftes not lyke vnto them or howe can you admitte your Seniors to the examination or allowing of them not onely béeing inferiour in office and calling but in giftes also yea the moste of them rude and ignorant for suche Seniors you must of necessitie haue if you wil haue any Surely I maruel that you haue so much forgotten your selfe A Deacon is superiour to the people yea to youre Seniors though you denie it and mo giftes required in him than in both the other 1. Tim. 3. Wherefore if he be not méete to examine pastors and iudge of their sufficiencie bicause that were to make the inferior in giftes to iudge of the superior c. much lesse are the people and your Seniors able to be examiners and iudges in that matter Furthermore if none must examine and iudge of the Pastor but suche as be superior or at the least equall vnto him and suche in whom moe or as many giftes are required then truly I sée not to whom this office may more orderly or safely be committed than to the Bishop who is superiour to the Pastour bothe in office and also in giftes It is not true that the booke committeth the examination of ministers onely to the Archdeacons or especially it is otherwise in the beginning of the booke in plaine words Your reason wherby you would proue an Archdeacon to be only a deacon is no reason at all for what sequele is there in this argument an Archdeacon is the chief deacon Ergo he is only a Deacon as thoughe you were ignorant of the state of oure Church and knew not that Archdeacons may be also ministers of the worde Chap. 1. the sixt Diuision T. C. Pag. 25. Sect. 1. Thirdly I mislyke the booke bicause it permitteth y e the Bishop may admit the minister vpon the credit report of the Archdeacon and vpon his examination if ther be no opposition of the people which appereth by these words in the booke wheras to the Archdeacon saying thus Reuerend father in God I present vnto you these persons to be admitted to be Priests c. The bishop answereth Take heed that y e persons whom you present vnto vs be apt meet for their godly cōuersation to exercise their ministerie duly to the honor of God edifying of his church And thervpō I think it commeth that the Archdeacon is called the eye
place against himself The place that you alledge oute of the tenthe of the Actes maketh moste agaynste youre selfe and ouerthroweth youre whole buyldyng Fyrste bycause 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is not there taken for liftyng vp of handes but for appoyntyng or ordeinyng onely for Christe didde not appoynte his Disciples by lifting vp of handes Secondly it signifyeth not to appoynt or to ordeyne by the suffrages and consente of other for Christe required no mannes consente in the choyse of his Apostles so that you haue loste and not gayned by alleadging of that place for as this worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the tenthe of the Actes doth not signifye that the Apostles were chosen by the consente or voyce of any other than of Christe onely so dothe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 also in this fourtéenth of the Actes signifie that Paule and Barnabas didde appoynte and ordeyne them ministers by theyr owne voyces onely and not by the suffrages of the people Certainly that place of the tenth of the Acts manifestly declareth that this worde in Scripture dothe not signifie anye common Election by the voyces of the people as you woulde haue it to doe Wherfore I thinke that theyr iudgemente can not iustly be mislyked whyche say this worde in this fouretéenth of the Actes to signifie the solemne manner of ordeining Ministers by the imposition of handes not meaning thereby the bare Ceremonie but the whole action of ordeyning To conclude I wyll desyre no other interpretation of thys worde in the. 14. of the Acts than that same place whyche you haue alleadged Actes 10. whiche also answereth what so euer you haue héere spoken of Saincte Lukes skyll in the Gréeke tongue or of the vse of this woorde in the Scriptures so that I shall not néede any other Author before Sainct Lukes tyme to proue the same Chap. 4. the fourth Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 43. Lin. 12. Surely howesoeuer the woorde is taken yet here is no generall rule prescribed of electing ministers You maye as wel conclude that all thinges oughte to bee common among Christians bycause wee reade Act. 2. that all those whyche beleeued had all thinges common among them and that those which be conuerted to the Gospell ought to sell their goodes and landes to be distributed at the discretion of the ministers bicause they did so Act. 2. 3. T. C. Pag. 30. Sect. 5. 6. Pag. 31. Sect. 1. 2. 3. 4. Lette vs therefore see youre thyrde whyche is that although the Churches consente was then required yet it is not nowe and that it is no generall rule no more than saye you that all thyngs shoulde be therefore common nowe bicause they were in the Apostles tyme. The authors of the Admenition with theyr fauourers muste be counted Anabaptistes no one worde beyng shewed whiche tendeth therevnto you muste accuse them whiche confirme that foundation whereof they buylde their communitie of all things whiche is one of their chief heresyes If I shoulde saye nowe that you are lyke to those that row in a boate which although they looke backewardes yet they thruste an other way I shoulde speake with more lykelyhode than you haue doone For although you make a countenaunce and speake hotly agaynst Anabaptistes yet in deede you strengthen theyr handes with reasons But I will not saye so neyther doe I thynke that you fauour that secte but onely the whirlewinde and tempest of your affection bente to mayntayne this estate whereby you haue so greate honour and wealth driueth you vpon these rockes to wracke your selfe on and others For I pray you what communitie is spoken of eyther in the two or three or fourthe of the Actes whiche ought not to be in the Churche as long as the world standeth was there any communitie but as touching the vse and so farre foorth as the poore brethren had neede of and Act. 1. Act. 5. not to take euery man alyke was it not in any man his power to sell his houses or landes or not to sell them When he had solde them were they not in euery man his libertie to keepe the money to himselfe at his pleasure and (a) The text sayeth playnly that as many as were possessoures of lands c. soul them all they that were of the Churche didde not sell theyr possessions but those whose hartes the Lord touched singularly with the compassion of the neede of others and whome God had blessed with aboundance that they had to serue themselues and helpe others and therefore it is reckened as a rare example that Barnabas the Cyprian and Leuite didde sell his possession and broughte the price to the feete of the Apostles And as for Ananias and Saphira they were not punished for bycause they brought not the price of their possessions to the Apostles but bycause they lyed saying that they had broughte the whole when they had brought but parte And to bee shorte is there any more doone there than Sainct Paule prescribeth to the Corinthians and in them to all Churches to the worldes ende After he had exhorted to liberalitie towardes the poore Churche in Hierusalem not sayeth 2. Cor. 8. he that other shoulde bee releeued and you oppressed but vppon lyke condition at thys tyme your aboundance supplyeth theyr lacke that also theyr aboundance maye be for your lacke that there might bee equalitie as it is written he that gathered muche had nothing ouer and he that gathered little had not the lesse Surely it were better you were no Doctour in the Churche than that the Anabaptistes shoulde haue suche holde to bring in their communitie as you giue them In summe the Apostolike communitie or the Churches in their tyme was not Anabapti ticall Io. Whitgifte I haue shewed before in the begynning of my Answere to the Admonition No good argument a f ▪ cto ad iu not onely howe weake but also howe daungerous a kynde of reasonyng it is to saye that the Apostles did it Ergo wée muste doe it or the Apostles didde it not Ergo we muste not doe it Zuinglius a notable learned man dothe especially reproue the Anabaptistes for this kynde of reason and sayeth that an argumente à facto ad ius or à non facto ad non ius is neuer good excepte those examples be grounded vppon some lawe or rule Wherefore when I thus laboure to ouerthrowe the vitious manner and kynde of the Anabaptisticall argumente I truste no indifferent man will suspect me of their errors when I say that this is no good argument In the Apostles time those that beléeued had all things common among them therefore Christians muste haue all thynges common doe I confirme theyr heresie of hauing all things common I knowe not why you shoulde so charge mée with the whirlewynde and tempest of my affection bente to mayntaine this estate c. except you be offended bicause I shewe the weakenesse of the Anabaptistes reasons for their communitie My honour and
Why the com panions of Paule were chosen by consent for the auoyding of suspicion of priuate gayne or corrupt dealing that such as shoulde haue to do in gathering and distributing almes shoulde be chosen by a common consent and it is manifest that it was Paules owne request to haue them in this businesse by the consent of the Churches ioyned with him for the stopping of the mouths of such as would otherwise haue bin ready to suspect Paules integritie in that money matter and that this is true these words declare declinantes boc nè quis nos carpat in bat 2. Cor. 8. exuber antia quae administratur à nobis procurantes bonesta c. Auoyding this that no man should blame vs in this abundance that is ministred by vs prouiding for honest things not only before the Lord but also before men as though he would say therefore haue I procured that by the consent of the Churches some might be ioyned with me in this collection least any man should take occasion to suspecte me of corrupt dealing or to report that in this businesse I robbed the Church to enrich my selfe Now therefore how any thing can be gathered of this place to proue that ministers of the word ought to be chosen by a common consent of the people let the reader iudge Paule might haue chosen thē himselfe if he would but he desired the Churches to choose them that his vpright dealing in collecting and distributing of the almes might not be brought into suspicion as I haue said before And therefore an Archbishop may dare take vpon him to make a minister of the Gospell c. for any thing that is in this place to the contrary In déede if an Archbishop should be appoynted to collecte and to distribute almes then were it fitte for his owne credite sake and to auoyde the slaunderous speaches of those that be quarrelous that he should desire some to be ioyned with him by the common consent of those of whome he should collect And this is the only thing that may be gathered of this place touching any election It is vntrue that in the first of the Acts the Church did first choose those two that stoode in the electiō for the Apostleship the Apostles only did propound them to the church as M. Beza truly saith in these words apparet cum eligendus esset qui in Iudae proditoris locum Beza li. confe cap. 5. succederet fuisse multitudini propositos ab Apostolis eos quos maximè idoneos censebant It appeareth when he was to be chosen which should succeede in the roome of Iudas the traytoure that they were propounded vnto the multitude by the Apostles whom they thought most meete Neyther were the Apostles chosen by men but immediatly by God as al writers confesse whiche was the cause why matthias was there chosen by lot and not by the voyces of men Why in the Apostles time it was conuenient to require the consent of the people in some things and yet not conuenient now so to do is declared afterwards Chapter 4. the. 6. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 43. Sect. vlt. I do not denie but in the Apostles time and after euē to Cyprians The consent of the people vnto Cyprians time time the peoples consente was in many places required in the appoynting of ministers T. C. Page 31. Sect. vlt. Pag. 32. Sect. 1. You will not denie but that in the Apostles time and S. Cyprians time in many places the consent of the people was required shew any one place where it was not Doth not S. Luke say that it was done Church by Church that is in euery Churche And where you say it endured (*) An vntruth for I say not but to Cyprias time but to S. Cyprians time it shall appeare to all men that it endured in the Church a thousand yeares and more after his time and it appeareth in the. 4. epistle of his first booke that he vsed it not as a thing indifferent but necessary and argueth the necessitie of it of the place of the first of the Acts which is alledged by the authours of the Admonition And so they are not their argumentes that you throwe vp so scornefully saying how followeth this and this what proueth it but Cyprians whome by their sides you thrust through and so vnreuerently handle Io. Whitgifte You bid me shew any one place where the consent of the people was not required in electing of ministers in the Apostles or in Cyprians time I might rather aske you this question Election of ministers by the people not general in the Apostls time especially of the Apostles time and bid you shewe vnto me any one place that directly proueth the consent of the people to haue bin required in the election of the ministers of the word In the first of the Acts the Apostles propounded two and the election was not by voice but by lot In the. 14. of the Acts it is playne that Paule and Barnabas did choose the ministers of the word S. Paule saith to Timothie 1. Ti. 5. 1. Tim. 5. Tit. 1. 〈◊〉 manus citò ne cui imponas lay hands on no man sodainely And to Titus Chap. 1. that for this cause he left him at Creta c. That he should ordeyne elders in euery citie To be shorte Christe himselfe alone withoute the consente of any other appoynted his Apostles Shew you me the like euident places for your purpose if you can The 6. of the Acts is but of Deacons who bycause they were occupyed about mouey Why Deacons were chosen by com mon consente Act. 6. 2. Cor. 8. matters and collecting and distributing of almes it was méete that they shoulde bée chosen by a common consente to auoyde the grudging of the people that gaue almes and the suspicion of others as the place it selfe doth manifestly declare Acts. 6. There arose a murmuring of the Graecians towards the Hebrues bycause their widdowes were neglected in the dayly ministring c. The. 2. Cor. 8. is to the like effecte whereof I haue spoken sufficientely There onelye remayneth too helpe you thys word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which I haue proued not of necessitie to signify in the scripture any election by the people excepte there be some other word added vnto it to expresse the same as there is 2. Cor. 8. and therefore my assertion is grounded vpon the playne and euident places of the scriptures yours vpon likelyhoods and coniectures onely And if it were as lawfull for me to alledge the Canons attributed to the Apostles as it is for you who haue alledged them in sundry places then could I tell you out of them also that the electing of ministers by the people was not generall at that time Cano. Apo. 36. as it may be gathered out of the. 36. Canon If you will beléeùe Eusebius li. 2. eccle histo cap. 23. or Zuinglius in his eccles
to no other as the diligent reader may easily perceiue But howsoeuer the words of Cyprian sound certayne it is that neyther that in the. 20. of Numeri nor this in the. 1. of the Acts can proue any election made by the people Chap. 4. the. 7. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 44. Lin. 1. No certayne forme of electing ministers commaunded in the scriptures But I saye that in the whole scripture there is no commaundement that it should so be nor any example that maketh therein any necessary or generall rule but that it may be altered as time and occasion serueth For in suche matters not commaunded or prohibited in scripture touching ceremonies discipline and gouernmente the Churche hathe authoritie from time to time to appointe that whiche is most conuenient for the presente state as I haue before declared T. C. Page 32. Sect. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. But you saye these examples are no generall rules (*) It will fal out that you haue neyther examples of all Apostles nor of all Churches nor of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 times Examples of all the Apostles in all Churches and in all purer times vncontrolled and vnretracted either by any the rimitiue and purer Churches or by any rule of the scripture I thinke ought to stande If it were a priuate example of one or in one place alone or if it were countermaunded by any other rule of the scripture then the example were not always safe to follow But what if there be commaundement also ▪ In the (a) You are driu to a streight when you are glad to serch a mandatum out of the ceremoniall law eight of the booke of numbers the Lorde commaundeth that the Leuites whiche preached the word of God to the people in their seuerall congregations shoulde be broughte before the Lord and before the people the people should lay their handes vpon the Leuits heads whiche what other thinge is it than to declare their liking of them and by that ceremonie to consecrate them and set them apart for that vse of their ministerie And if you say that it were a disorder that all should lay on their hands I graunt you but so he speaketh bycause the approbation was by all and some in the name of the rest declared that by their laying on of hands But me thinketh I here your old answer that this perteyneth not vnto vs being a thing done vnder the law But take heede what you say for if you will admitte neyther the generall examples of the new testament nor the commaundements and examples of the old take heede that you do not or euer you be aware spoyle vs of the chiefe and principall pillers and buttresses of our religion and bring vs (b) Not so but you seeme to bring vs to plai udaisme to playne Catabaptistrie which you say you are so afraid of For to proue the baptisme of children and yong infants what stronger hold haue we than that God commaunded in the old Testament that they should be circumcised and examples thereof in the new Testament for that the Apostles baptised whole families where by al likelyhoode there were children Now we say that there is this commaundement in the old Testament of the ministers and there are examples in the newe Testament generall and throughout why shoulde it not then be necessarie in this as well as in the other Besides that in the (c) This is a silly place to proue 〈◊〉 generall commaundement 6. of the Acts the Apostles commaund that the Church shoulde seeke them out Deacons whome they might appoynt ouer the poore Touching certayne Ceremonies I haue shewed that they are necessary as namely the sacramentes And as for discipline and gouernmente I haue shewed partly and more heereafter will be shewed that they are of the substance of the Gospell if to haue excommunication be to haue discipline or if to haue pastors or Byshops and Doctors and Deacons be gouernmente of the Church Io. Whitgifte You do still petere principium and build vpon a false grounde for I denie that you haue examples either of all or of any of the Apostles or that this kind of election hath bin in all Churches in al purer times c. and albeit for the proofe of this sufficiēt is said before yet will I adde something now also All the places of scriptures that you haue The diuersitie of electiōs in the Apostles time hither to alleadged are Act. 1. Act. 6. Act. 14. and. 2. Cor. 8. whiche places neither agrée in persons that were to be chosen nor in the manner and forme of choosing For the first of the Acts is of an Apostle the. 6. of Deacons the. 14. of Byshops and the. 2. Cor. 8. of such as were ioyned with Paule for the collecting and distributing of Almes Al men do graunt that the calling and electing of an Apostle is immediatly from God and therefore dothe differ from all other elections of Pastors Deacons c. But to let thys passe I pray you consider the diuers manner and forme vsed in all these places In the firste of the Acts Péeter made an exhortation to the disciples he appoynted out of what company the newe Apostle shoulde be taken the Apostles presented two after prayers made lots were giuen foorth and the Apostle was chosen by lot and not by voice but immediatly taken and reputed with the eleuen Apostles In the. 6. of the Acts the twelue Apostles willed the whole multitude to looke out seuen men of honest report c. to be Deacons and the whole multitude did choose seuen and presented them to the Apostles and the Apostles prayed layed theyr hands on them In the. 14. of the Acts Paule and Barnabas ordeyned ministers in euery Churche with praying and fasting In the seconde Corinth eyghte At Paules request the Churches appoynte certayne to bée collectours for the poore Saynctes with hym whyche of all these examples woulde you followe will you name them to the people or shall the people name them too you Will you haue two put vp togyther and one of them chosen by lotte Or will you haue the whole people for to choose and you to lay on handes or will you only haue the Bishops to choose to bée short will you pray only at the election or will you both pray and fast or haue you any commission to make a mixture of all those examples and so to make one rule where vnto all Churches at all times must of necessitie be bound I told you before that M. Caluine saith plainly that out of that example in the first of the Acts no certaine rule can be gathered of electing and choosing of ministers and M. Beza li. confess ca. 5. is as plaine that there can be no certaine rule gathered out of the Beza 6. of the Acts or out of that in the first his words be these In the election of Matthias lottes were cast but for a peculiar cause
substance or being of baptisme whether Pa. 114. Sect. 1. he be minister or no that ministreth that sacrament Pag. 114. And this is that mysterie which you and your fellowes will not as yet openly vtter but craftily dissemble vntill you sée better oportunitie The truth is your intent is rebaptization and flat Anabaytisme But I haue declared sufficiently the vanitie of your collection in thys place and the weakenesse of your reasons touching this matter where you haue gyuen me more especiall occasion to speake of it Tract 9. Chap. 7. the. 7. Diuision T. C. Page 42. Sect. 2. 3. Seing then that the scripture doth teach this order that there should be no minister thrust vppon the Churche but by the consent thereof and reason perswadeth that ways and the vse of the Church hath bin so from time to time both in peace and in time of persecution both vnder tyrants and godly princes it cannot be without the high displeasure of almightie God the greate hurt and sore oppression of the church that one man should take this vnto him which perteyneth to so many or one minister which perteyneth to more than one especially where the aduise of learned ministers may concurre with the peoples election or consent Now if any man wil rise vp and say that this doctrine bringeth in disorder and by this meanes children boys and women should haue their voyces which is vnseemely all men vnderstande that where the election is most freest and most generall yet only they haue to do whiche are heads of families and that this is but a meere cauill to bring the truth in hatred which is vnworthy to be answered and requireth rather a Censor than a disputer to suppresse it Io. Whitgifte The scripture doth not teach any such order it hathe examples to the contrary it presribeth herein no certayne rule to be perpetuall there is better reason to the contrary if the diuersitie of the time and other circumstances be considered the Church also hath not at all times nor in all places vsed one forme and manner of election not in the Apostles time as it hath bin declared wherefore the Church is neyther hurte nor oppressed if the godly Magistrate alone do appoynt in it Byshops and take such order for admitting other inferioure Pastors as shall be thought to him most conueniente Neyther is God displeased with them for so doing if they séeke his glory therein the godly peace and quietnesse of the Church and haue respect to the end of the Apostles in appointing ministers But he is greatly displeased with those that make a necessitie where none is and trouble the Churches with their owne deuises and make contention for externall matters ¶ It is not necessarie that the people should haue interest in the election of ministers but the contrarie is conuenient Chap. 8. the. 1. Diuision Io. Whitgifte NOwe that you haue vttered all your authorities and reasons to proue that the people ought to haue interest in the electing of their ministers that I haue sufficiently I truste answered the same Lette it not be troublesome vnto you if summarily I collect my reasons that moue me to thinke the contrarie 1. And fyrst I will proue that there is no certaine forme of electing prescribed in Scripture but that the same is left frée for the Churches to appointe as shall bée thought most conuenient for their states and tymes 2. Secondly I will shewe that there hath bene greate diuersitie from tyme to tyme vsed in the Churche touching elections and that the people at all tymes and in all places haue not bene admitted thervnto 3. Last of all I will sette downe the reasons why the people haue bene debarred from such elections and why they ought still so to bée Touching the fyrst these be my reasons 1. Chryst whose factes and déedes we ought especially to followe did of himselfe Math. 10. Luke 10. alone without the consent of any call and choose his Apostles and lykewise the 70. disciples whome he sent to preache 2. The Apostles Acts. 1. altered this maner and forme for they presented two and the one of them was chosen by lotte 3. In the. 6. of the Actes they cleane altered this also for the people presented seuen to the Apostles and they were all chosen withoute lottes the Apostles also layde on their handes vpon them 4. In the. 14. of the Acts this forme is lykewise changed for Paule and Bar abas ordeyned ministers in euery citie without eyther presentment by the people or casting of lottes 5. In the. 13. of the Acts it is manyfest that Paule and Barnabas were sent onely by the Prophetes and Doctours without any consent of the people eyther giuen or required reade the beginning of the Chapter it is playne inough of it selfe 6. Paule sent Timothie and Titus and gaue them authoritie to ordeyne other 1. Tim. 5 2. Tim. 1. Tit. 1. So that it is certayne that here is no prescripte maner and forme appoynted to be obserued for euer séeing that the Apostles themselues did not bynd or tie themselues to anye suche rule which both M. Bullinger Zuinglius and Beza doe lykewyse confesse as I haue before declared And therefore M. Caluine as I tolde you before sayth that of that example in the first of the Acts no certayne rule can be gathered of electing and choosing ministers And M. Beza is of the same iudgement both for that example Act. 1. and the other also of Deacons Act. 6. as I haue lykewise declared before And in that booke of confession and. 5. Chapter he hathe this saying worthie to be noted Bycause the multitude is for the most parte ignorant and intractable and the Beza lib. con cap. 5. greater parte doth oftentymes preuayle agaynst the better not in a popular state lawfully appoynted are all things committed to the vnbridled multitude but certain Magistrates are appoynted by the consent of the people to rule and gouerne them if this wysedome be in worldely affaires muche more is a moderation to be had in those matters wherein men be oftentymes blynded Neyther is there any cause why any man of sounde iudgement should exclame that in such matters there is no place for pollicie except he can shew this policie wherof I speake to be repugnant to the word of God whiche I thinke he can not Hitherto M. Beza and he speaketh of the electors of Ministers And a little after he sayth that wee must not alwayes looke what the Apostles did in Ecclesiasticall pollicie Idem or in the gouernment of the Churche seeing there is so great diuersitie of circumstances that a man can not without preposterous zeale reduce all things in all places and tymes to one and the same forme but it is sufficient if respect be had to their ende and purpose whiche is not variable and that maner and forme vsed whiche leadeth therevnto c. Wherupon also I conclude that in the Scriptures there is no
muste learne that there bee not onely Pastors in the Churche but also Apostles Prophetes Euangelistes Doctors Ephes. 4. 1. Cor. 12. who all are called ministers and haue their place in the Churche of Christe as it shall be proued if you denie it T. C. Pag. 45. Sect. 1. This passeth all the diuinitie that euer I redde that there are nowe Apostles and Euangelistes and Prophetes You shall assuredly doe maruels if you proue that as you saye you wil if any denie it I denye it proue you it Io. Whitgifte Apostles Then haue you not redde muche diuinitie for if it be true that the Apostle Saincte Paule in the fourth to the Ephesians dothe make a perfecte platforme of a Churche and a full rehersall of the offices therein conteyned as you say he dothe then can I not vnderstande howe you can make those offices rather temporall than the office of the Pastors and Doctors And forasmuche as you so greatly contemne authoritie and woulde haue all thinges proued by Scripture lette mée heare one worde of the same that dothe but insinuate these offices to be temporall The place it selfe séemeth to importe a continuance of these functions vntill the comming of Ephes. 4. Christe For he sayeth He therfore gaue some to be Apostles and some Prophetes and some Euangelistes and some Pastors and Teachers for the gatheryng together of the Sainctes for the woorke of the ministerie c. vntill wee all meete together in the vnitie of faithe and knowledge of the sonne of God vnto a perfecte man and vnto the measure of the age and fulnesse of Christe c. I am perswaded that you can not shew any lyke place whiche dothe so playnely importe the abrogatyng of them as thys 1. Cor. 12. 14. dothe make for their continuaunce I haue besyde that place to the Ephesians the twelfth of the firste to the Corinth and the. 14. where he speaketh of Prophets as of perpetuall ministers in the Churche of Christe I knowe that there were certayne thynges in the Apostles whiche were proper vnto themselues as theyr callyng whyche was immediatly from God their commission to goe into the whole worlde the power of woorkyng miracles to bée witnesses of the Resurrection and of the Ascention c. but to preache the woorde of God in places where néede requireth though the same be not peculiarly committed to them or to gouerne Churches alreadie planted I sée no cause why it shoulde not be perpetuall Euangelists Lykewise the office of the Euangelist if it be taken for the writing of the gospell then it is ceased But if it be taken for preaching to the people playnely and simply as (a) Bull. in 4. ad Ephes. Bullinger thinketh or generally for preaching the gospell as (b) Musc. Tit. de ver minist in locis com Musculus supposeth in whiche sense also Paule sayde to Timothie 2. Timo. 4. doo the worke of an Euangelist Or for preaching more feruently and zealously than other as (c) Bucer in 4. Ephes. Bucer sayeth then I see no cause at all why it may not still remaine in the Church Moreouer Prophetes if they be taken for suche as haue the gifte of foreshewyng things to come then be they not in all tymes of the Churche but if they be Prophets 1. Cor. 14. suche as Saincte Paule speaketh of 1. Corin. 14. such I saye as haue an especiall gyfte in interpretyng the Scriptures whether it bée in expoundyng the mysteries thereof to the learned or in declaryng the true sense thereof to the people I vnderstande not why it is not as perpetuall as the Pastor or Doctor Thus you sée that I haue bothe Scripture and reason on my syde and to the ende you maye perceyue that I am not destitute of the consent also of learned Ambrose men in thys matter I will sette downe the opinions of one or two Ambrose vpon these wordes Ad Ephes. 4. Et ipse dedit quosdam quidem Apostolos c. sayeth thus The Apostles are Bishops Prophets be interpreters of the Scriptures althoughe in the beginning there were Prophetes as Agabus and the foure Virgins Prophetesses as it is in the Actes of the Apostles c. yet nowe interpreters bee called Prophets Euangelistes bee Bucerin 4. Ephe. Deacons as Philip for althoughe they bee no Priestes yet maye they preache the Gospell without a chaire as both Stephanus and Philippe before named Bucer vppon the Fol. 42. sect vlt. same place sayth that there bée Euangelistes nowe and you your selfe fol. 42. confesse that Hus Ierome of Prage Luther Zuinglius c. were Euangelistes Peter Martyr in his P. Martyr Commentaries vpon the. 12. to the Romaines sayth that the Apostle there describeth those functions and giftes whyche are at all tymes necessarie for the Churche And in that place the Apostle mentioneth Prophecying M. Caluine in his Institut Caluine cap. 8. doth confesse that God hath stirred vp Apostles or Euangelistes since that tyme of the Primitiue Churche and that hee hathe doone so lykewyse euen nowe in thys tyme. M. Bullinger vpon the place of the fourth to the Ephe. sayeth that the woordes Bullinger bee confounded and that an Apostle is also called a Prophete a Doctor an Euangeliste a minister and a Bishoppe and a Bishoppe an Euangeliste and a Prophete c. To bée shorte it is thus written in the Confession of the Churches in Heluetia Confess Heluetica The ministers of the newe Testament bee called by sundrie names for they are called Apostles Prophetes Euangelistes Byshoppes c. And speakyng of Prophetes it sayeth The Prophetes in tyme paste foreseeyng thynges to come were called Seers who were expounders of the Scriptures also as some bee euen nowe a dayes Euangelistes were wryters of the historie of the Gospell and Preachers also of the gladde tydings of Christe his Gospell As Paule bidde Timothie doe the woorke of an Euangeliste c. So that to saye that there is in the Churche Apostles Prophetes and Euangelistes in suche sense as I haue declared is no straunge diuinitie to suche as bée diuines in déede But let vs heare your reasons Chap. 3. the. 2. Diuision T. C. Page 45. Sect. 1. 2. 3. 4. And that you maye haue some thyng to doe more than peraduenture you thoughte of when you wrote these woordes I will shewe my reasons why I thinke there oughte to be none nor can be none vnlesse they haue wonderfull and extraordinarie callings It must first be vnderstanded that the signification of this worde Apostle when it is properly taken extendeth it selfe not only to all the ministers of God beeing sente of God but to the Embassador of any Prince or noble man or that is sente of any publike authoritie and is vsed of the Scripture by the trope of Synecdoche for the twelue that our Sauior Christ appointed to go thoroughout all the worlde to preache the Gospell vnto the which number was added Saint Paule and
as some thinke Barnabas whiche are seuered from all other ministers of the Gospell by these notes First that they were immediatly called of God as S. Paule to the Galathians proueth him Gal. 1. selfe to be an Apostle bycause he was not appoynted by men Then that they sawe Christe whiche argument Saincte Paule vseth in the. 9. 1. Cor. Am I not an Apostle haue I not seene Christe Thirdly that these had the field of the whole world to tyll whereas other are restrained more particularly as to a certaine plough lande wherin they should occupie themselues wherevpon it followeth that as we conclude against the Pope truly that he can be no successour of the Apostles not only bicause he neyther teacheth nor doth as they did but bicause the Apostles haue no successours neyther any can succeede into the office of an Apostle so may we lykewyse conclude against those that woulde haue the Apostles now a dayes that there can be none bycause there is none vnto whome all these three notes doe agree as that he is both sent of God immediately or that he hath seene Christe or that he is sent into all the worlde Io. Whitgifte M. Caluine vpon the sixtéenth to the Romaines sayeth that this woorde Apostle in proper and vsuall signification dothe onely comprehende that firste order whyche Chryste in the beginning did appoynt in his twelue disciples whiche is directly con trarie to your saying I graunt that in suche respectes as you now put downe there bée no Apostles although Matthias was not immediatly called by God as it appeareth Actes 1. and you before haue confessed neyther can you proue by the Scripture that Barnabas was so called but the contrarie rather dothe appeare in the. 11. of the Actes and yet he was an Apostle Sainct Paule in the firste to the Corinth 9. doth not saye that he sawe Christe to proue that he was an Apostle but to declare that he was in that respect nothing inferiour to the reste of the Apostles I haue before declared in what sense I say that ther be Apostles in the church neyther is it a matter so strange séeing that M. Caluine sayeth as muche in the place before recited Quanquam non nego quin Apostolos postea quoque vel saltem eorum loco Euangelistas interdùm excitarit Deus vt Cal. in 16. Ro. instit cap. 8. nostro tempore factum est Although I doe not denye but that God hath afterwardes also stirred vp Apostles or at the least Euangelists in steade of them as it is doone in oure dayes Chap. 3. the. 3. Diuision T. C. Page 45. Sect. 5. And although some Ecclesiasticall wryters doe call sometymes good ministers successors of the Apostles yet that is to be vnderstanded bicause they propounde the same doctrine that they did not bycause they succeeded into the same kind of function which they could not do S. Paule doth vse this word sometimes in his proper and natiue signification for him that is publikely sent from any to other as when he speaketh of the brethren that were ioyned with Titus whiche were sent by the Churches with reliefe to the poore Church in Ierusalem and Inry and where he calleth Epaphroditus an Apostle But that is with addition and not simply as in the first place he calleth the brethren the Apostles of the Churches that is not the Apostles of all Churches or sente to all 2. Cor. 8. Churches but the Apostles which certayne Churches sent with the reliefe to other certaine churches and Epaphroditus he calleth not an Apostle simply but the Apostle of the Philippians that Philip. 2. is which the Philippians sent with reliefe to Paule being in prison at Rome as it appeareth in the same epistle Io. Whitgifte The writers of y e Magdelb historie cal Epaphroditus an Apostle in the same sense Epaphroditus an Apost that they cal Paule and the rest of the Apostles M. Caluine thinketh the name of an Cent. 1. lib. 2. cap. 7. Apostle to be taken in that place generally pro quolibet Euangelista for any preacher of the gospell Ambrose saith erat eorum Apostolus à Paulo factus dum illum ad exhortationem Caluin in 2 Philip. eorum mittebat ad eos he was made their Apostle of Paule when as at their request he sente him vnto them And Theodoret in plaine wordes doth call him an Apostle bycause he Ambrose in Philip. 2. was byshop of the Philippians If these say true as no doubt they do thē is not Epaphroditus called an Apostle only in that signification that you say he was In that he Theo. 1. Tim. 3. Phil. 2. calleth them Apostles with an addition of the Churches not of all Churches he confirmeth my saying for it argueth that there may be Apostles though they haue commission but for one kingdome or prouince only as Epaphroditus was the Apostle of the churches of the Philippians bycause he was sent vnto them to preach Thus doth both Ambrose Chrysostome Theodoret Caluine and others write Chap. 3. the fourth Diuision T. C. Pag. 46. Sect. 1. And as for Andronicus and Iunius whiche are by you recited (*) T. C. 〈◊〉 off a direct answer with this belike belike to proue that we may haue more Apostles bycause it is said of S. Paule that they were famous and notable amōgst the Rom. 16. Apostles it cannot be proued by any thing I see there whether they had any function ecclesiasticall or no. For S. Paule calleth them his kinsfolks and fellowe prisoners and dothe not saye that they were hys fellowe labourers and a man maye be well notable and famouse amongst the Apostles and well knowne vnto them whiche is no Apostle And if the Apostles woulde haue had this order of the Apostles to continue in the Churche there is no doubt but that they would haue chosen one into Iames his roome when he was slayn as they did when they supplyed the place of Iudas by choosing Matth s and so euer as they had dyed the other would haue put other in their places So it appeareth that this function of the Apostles is ceased Io. Whitgifte The foresayd authors of the storie called (a) Cent. 1. lib. 2. cap. 7. Magdelburgica do also recken these two Andronicus Iunia Apostles among the Apostles euen as they do Paule Barnabas (b) Caluine in 16. Rom. M. Caluin vpon that place to the Romaines sayth that the name of an Apostle there doth extende to all those whiche teache not one Churche onely but many c. and séemeth to accompte Andronicus and Iunius such (c) Beza in 16. Rom. M. Beza in the same place writeth thus Inter Apostolos c. i quorum nomen inter Apostolos viget vel qui ipsi sunt insignes Apostoli ic enim accipitur interdum oc nomen in genere pro bis qui Christi nomine funguntur legatione That is whose name is famous among the
Onely bicause Polidore wryteth that Clement sayth this in a certaine short and summarie booke of christian religion you haue set downe that he wryteth thus in a booke intituled Compendiarium Christianae religionis where there is no such tytle neither in the Councels where his Epistles are neyther yet in all other his workes Thought you to disguise him with this newe name of the booke that he should not be knowne or ment you to occupie your answerer in seeking of a booke which bicause he should neuer finde he should neuer answere The place which Polidore meaneth is in the first Epistle which he wryteth vnto Iames the brother of the Lord which is as the rest are both ridiculous in the maner of writing and in the matter oftner tymes wicked and blasphemous which I speake to this ende that the reader through the commendation that M. Doctor hath giuen to this Clement in taking him as one of his witnesses in so great a matter be not abused Io. Whitgifte Here is much more labour spent than is necessarie No man denyeth but that the Epistles attributed to Clement are Counterfeyte neyther do I otherwise alledge him or Anacletus or any such like than both M. Caluine M. Iewell and many other learned men do as it is euident in their writings That testimonie whiche I vse is out of Polidore and therefore haue I quoted both the booke and Chapter Polidore wryteth as other doe that intreate of such matters and for as muche as he was learned and of purpose gaue himselfe to the searching out of such things his report is not lightly to be reiected But God be thanked neyther the name nor the anthoritie of an Arfhbishop dependeth vpon these witnesses neyther do I vse them as sure groundes but as probable testimonies of the antiquitie of the name You haue cited the Canons of the Apostles thrise at the least in this your booke and Higinus likewise and vsed them as proofes and yet is there as great suspicion in the counterfeyting of them as there is of this booke of Clements I pray you therefore giue me that libertie in recyting Authours that you take to your selfe and that no man refuseth when they serue to his purpose For I protest vnto you that I haue as euil an opinion of many of them and think as great corruption to be in them as any man doth and that not only bicause I haue so red in other mens writings of them but also for that I my self in reading of thē haue noted the same But I am well assured that Polidore ment that Clement which is supposed to be the first Bishop of Rome how he was therein deceyued béeing so learned a man I leaue it to others to iudge It is not like that Polydore ment that Epistle for hée knewe what difference there was betwixt an Epistle and a booke neyther doth the length or the matter of that Epistle giue anie occasion that it shoulde so be called wherefore it is like that Polydore had it out of some booke attributed vnto Clement vnder that title thoughe the same be not extant For there be diuerse woorkes of auncient fathers whiche bée not now ertant in print and yet in some places to be had But I will not stande longer in this matter The wordes of Polydore be these Sicut D. Clemens in suo Christianae religionis compendiario libello perhibet c. Chap. 2. the second Deuision T. C. Pag. 67. Sect. 3. For answere vnto him although he be not worth the answering I say first it may bee well sayd here of the office of the Archbishop that the father of it was an Amorite and mother an Hittite that is that it commeth of verie infamous parentage the beginning thereof beeing of the Idolatrous nations Io. Whitgifte These be but wordes of pleasure it will appeare in this discourse that the parents and authours both of the office and of the name be such as ought with greater reuerence to be spoken of and with greater signification of duetie Chap. 2. the thirde Diuision T. C. Pag. 67. Sect. 4. And whereas Clement maketh S. Peter the Apostle to make it as it were his adopted sonne therby to wipe away the shame of his birth it doth S. Peter shamefull iniurie For besides that it was farre from S. Peter to take this authoritie to himself not only of making Archbishops thorowout euery Prouince but also instituting a new order or of fice without the counsell of the rest of the Apostles which none else of the Apostles did and which is cōtrarie to the practise of S. Peter both in the first and sixt of the Actes contrarie also to the practise of the Apostles which after shall appeare I say besydes this is it like that S. Peter woulde graffe the noblest plant as it is sayd of the ministerie of the Gospell in such a rotten stock of that which was most abhominable in all Idolatrie For the greater they were in the seruice of the Idolles the more detestable were they before God Io. Whitgifte I do not take vpon me the defense of Clements wordes in that Epistle or of Polydore in the booke and Chapter before recyted in all things that they spake touching the matter But I cannot suffer your vaine reasons to serue for an answere For if Saint Peter did thus place Archbishoppes yet did he not appoynt any newe order or office as you haue bene oftentymes tolde Of all Byshops there is one order or One ministerie of bishops but diuerse degrees ministerie but diuerse degrées Betwéene an Archbyshop and a Bishop there is onely a difference of degrée and dignitie not of order or ministerie as diuerse learned men giue vnto Peter aboue the rest of the Apostles the preheminence of honour for orders sake but not of power Moreouer Peter in appoynting them without the consent of the other Apostles did no otherwise than the Apostle S. Paule whē he placed Timothie at Ephesus and Titus at Creta It may be also that in some places where there were before Archiflamines he placed such as were called Archbishops c. whiche might be done in respect of y e city place and not in respect of the idolatrous priests For Archiflamines were but in great Cities which being conuerted vnto Christ might haue in the place of their Archiflamines Godly and learned Archbishops to ouersée and direct the rest of the Bishops and Preachers that vnitie and order might be obserued Thus Paule did at Ephesus and Creta And why might not Peter do it in other places likewise Chap. 4. the fourth Diuision T. C. Pag. 67. Sect. 5. 6. 7. 8. The Lorde when he woulde giue lawes of woorshipping to his people in the things that were indifferent of shauing and cutting and apparell wearing sayth to his people that they should not do so and so bicause the Gentiles did so yea euen in those things the vse whereof was otherwise verie profitable and incommodious to forbeare he
to a place byshops or at the leas to consent therevnto to suppresse schismes and such like was affixed to the place and byshop of the same as to Rome Cō tantinople Alexandria c. this do all the olde canons declare as the. 6. and. 7. Canon of the councell of Nice the. 9. of the councell of Antioch and the. 5. of the generall councell of Constantinople the. 12 of the second councell of Carthage the. 21. Concilij Mileuitani the. 11. of the generall councell of Chalcedon to be short all these testimonies and examples alleadged of me before out of Cyprian c. and the continuall practise of the Church And therefore such new cautions here by you set downe be only méete for such a strange and mishapen platforme and kynd of gouernment as is by you and your faction deuised Chap. 3. the. 47. Diuision T. C. Pag. 85. Sect. 2. 3. 4. Of this order and pollicie of the Church if we will see a liuely image a d perfect patterne let vs set before ou eyes the most auncient and gospellike Church that euer was or shal be In the first of the Actes the Church being gathered togither for the election of an Apostle into the place of Iudas the traytor when as the interest of election belonged vnto all and to the Apostles especially aboue the rest out of the whole company Peter riseth vp telleth the cause of their comming togyther with what cautions and qualities they ought to choose another conceyueth the prayer whereby the help of God in that election and his direction is begged and no doubt ex cuted the resi ue of the things which perteyned vnto the whole action In the. of the Actes all the Apostles are accused of dronke nesse Peter answer d for them all wypeth away the infamie they were charged with But you will saye where are the voyces of the rest which did choose Peter vnto this (*) What is this but a meere con 〈◊〉 or ather an imagine answer o yo r ow e ▪ First you must kn w that the scripture setteth not downe euery circumstance and then surely you do Peter great iniurie that aske whether he were chosen vnto it for is it to be thought that Peter would thrust in himselfe to this office or dignitie without the consent and allowance of his fellowes and preuent his fellowes of this preheininence vndoutedly if it had not bin done arrogantly yet it must needes hau a great shew of arrogancie if he had done this without the consent of his fellowes And here you shall heare what the scholiast saith which gathereth the iudgement of greeke diumes (a) This is not poken o cho ing eter to be speaker but of lecting Matthias which pe eyned not to Peter alone 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 speaking of Peter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Behold how he doth all with their common consent And if any man hervpon will say that Peter exercised domination ouer the rest or gat any ar hapostleship beside that the whole storie of the Actes of the Apostles and his whole course of life doth refute that the same scholiast which I made mention of in the same place sayth he did nothing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 imp riously nothing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with dominion or power further I will admonish him to take heede least if he s riue so farre for the Archbishop he slide or euer he be aware into the entes of the Papists which vse these places to proue that Peter had authoritie and rule ouer the rest of the Apostles Io. Whitgifte This is a rodd to beate your selfe with for it is euident euen by these wordes of yours that your deuise is most farthest from the Apostolicall forme for Peter in all Peter chee e in Apostolicall assemblies such assemblies is the chiefe speaketh the first and moderateth the rest in whiche respect most of the olde ecclesiastical writers count him the chiefe of the Apos les neyther do the la e writers diss nt from them in that poynt and yet is there no daunger of sliding into the Papists tents who by this woulde proue the Popes supremacie whose arguments you haue vsed and I haue confuted before To preuent subtily that question which neyther yo do nor can answer that is where it is in scripture mentioned that at euery action or at any time Peter was chosen to speake before the rest or to gouerne the action ou say that first I must know that the scripture setteth not downe euery circumstance and then that I do Peter great iniurie that aske whether he were chosen to it c. To the first I answer that you ought to know how wicked and vngodly a thing it is to ground the alteration of any lawfull kinde of g uernment so long continued and in the best times of the Church practised vpon your owne fonde deuise and coniectures without any ground of scripture yea to make that Peter not cho sen in euery action to be chee e. your foundation which you cannot fynde in the whole scripture but the cleane contrary For shew me one péece of a text that doth but insinuate Peter to haue bin at any time in any action chosen to direct the action I can shew you the contrary especially in the second of the Actes where Peter sodainly answered with a notable apologie in the presence of the Apostles the accusation of dronkennesse layde agaynst him and them neyther can it be that he should expect the voyces of the rest to choose him to be the chéefe for that time in that action Whosoeuer shall well consider the first of the Actes and the. 15. and other places where mention is made of Peters speaking as he shall perceiue that this was Peters peculiar office and always apperteyning vnto him from the ascensiō of Christ to his dying day so shall he also easily vnderstand that he was not at any time chosen to that office by voyces much lesse at euery particular méeting or singular action And dare you presume vpon vaine coniectures without warrant of scripture to bild the foundation of your kinde of gouernment whyche you before sayde is a matter of faythe and saluation is not thys to open a way to vnwritten veri ies and phantasticall interpretatious if your wordes be of suche weighte wyth the Reader that bycause you speake them therefore hée will be aeue them per me ▪ licebit but thys I will assure hym of that he shall beléeue that that is neyther grounded vppon Scripture nor anye learned or aunciente authoritie To the seconde that is that I doe Peter great iniurie c. I saye that I doe him no iniurie at all when I affirme that of hym that the scripture dothe and presume not of mine owne brayne for the mainteyning of an euill cause to imagin that of him whych I haue my selfe deuised besides the word of God as you do most manifestly Peter did not thrust himselfe into any
office or dignitie whiche was not appoyuted vnto hym by God neyther did he otherwise vse himselfe therein than his office and duetie required and it is impietie thus to dallie and trifle in Gods matters We are w ll assured in scripture that Peter did this and had this preheminence and therefore you must knowe that he was lawfully called vnto it and did lawfully execute it The Gréeke Scholiast saith that Peter in such assemblies did conclude nothing The scholiast playeth not y e parte which is layde vpon him without the consent of the rest the which also the scripture it selfe dothe plainly declare But the Gréeke Scholiast no where sayth that Peter was at euery assemblie or at any time chosen by the voyces of the rest to speake first and to moderate the action which is your assertion For in the place by you cited he speaketh not of the election of Peter to his prolocutorship but of the choosing of Matthias to the Apostleship Wherein Peter tooke not that preheminence to himselfe to appoint him alone but communicated the matter with the rest of the disciples So that you haue eyther wittingly or ignorantly applyed the Scholiast to a wrong matter It is true that Peter did nothing imperiously nothing with dominion or power no more doth any man that executeth lawfull iurisdiction and gouerneth by law quitie and order no not the king himselfe for in superioritie there is humilitie and in rule and authoritie there is seruitude as I haue before shewed in the exposition of the places in the. 20 of Matth. 22. Luke c. And yet doth the Gréeke Scholiast in the same place say that Peter rose vp and not lames as being more feruent 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Tract 1. and as hauing receiued the presidentship of the Apostles Your admo ishment of falling into the tents of the Papists howe necessary it is for your selfe whi h vse their manner of reasoning vpon this example of Peter and vpon deuised interpretations of the scripture I haue touched before As for my selfe I refuse no warning ▪ But I trust it is not so necessary for I know what they haue said what they can say in that matter Chap. 3. the. 48. Diuision T. C. Pag. 85. Sect. 4. And that it may be vnderstanded that this inoderate rule voyd of all pompe and outwarde shew was not perpetuall nor all wastyed vnto one man whiche were the last poynts of the c utions I put before turne vnto y e. 15. of the Actes where is shewed how with the rest of the church the Apostles and amongst them Peter being assembled decide a great controuersie (a) This 〈◊〉 aga nst your 〈◊〉 as 〈◊〉 appeare Iames he Apostle and not Peter moderated and gouerned the whole action when as after other had sayde their iudgements and namely Paule and Barnabas and Peter he in the end in the name o all pronounced the sentence and that whereof the rest agreed and had disputed vnto and the residue rested in that iudgement the which also may likewise appeare in the. 21. of the Actes Io. Whitgifte Peter moderat ur o ong as the Apo tles nco ogyther It is euident by the story of the Actes of the Apostles that this function remayned to Peter so long as the Apostles cōtinued togither and that he did execute the same when soeuer they mette and therefore it is vntrue that this off ce was not tyed to one man the. 15. of the Acts helpeth you nothing for euen there Peter kéepeth his accustomed manner in making the irst oration and in that place it may appeare that he did it as chéefe in that assemblie for the text saith that when there had bin great Actes 15. disputation Peter rose vp and said vnto them c. so that Peter as one hauing authoritie to appease the tumult and bitter contention rose vp and said vnto them c. Then spake Barnabas and Paule after them Iames not as moderator or gouer oure of the whole action but as one hauing interest to speake as the rest of the Apostles had and bycause he had spoken that which the rest well liked of therefore they consented to his opinion and iudgement This is no more to giue preheminence o Iames in moderating that action than it is to giue the speakership in the Parliament to hym that speaketh last in a matter and whose oration hath most perswaded o whome also the whole house consenteth So that Peter kéepeth his prerog tiue still for any thing that is here spoken to the contrary which may also euidently appe re by this The of ice o the peaker o 〈◊〉 that when there was greate contention among them about the matter the cause whereof is like to be for that they did not vnderstand the state of the cause Peter stoode vp in hoc maximè insistit vt statum quaestionis demonstraret and stoode especially vppon this point that he might declare the state of the question as M. Caluine saith whiche is the office of the speaker or moderatour wherefore not Iames but Peter did moderate the action But best as you would haue it that Iames did moderate the action it maketh most against The example o Iames 〈◊〉 the Re plyer you for if we beléeue the auncient writers and namely the gréeke Scholiast vpon the. 15. of the Acts Iames was now Byshop of Ierusalem and therefore the Synode being ithin his charge it was not 〈◊〉 that he according to his office should moderate the same as other bishops did in their seuerall Churches The. 21. of the Acts is nothing to your purpose but Paule comming to Ierusalem went with certaine other in vnto Iames and told him and all the rest that were gathered togyther what God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministration What is this to proue your purpose Peter is not here and Iames was now 〈◊〉 op of Ierusalem as the note in the margent of the ible printed at Geneua doth testify The place in no respect proueth your assertion but the contrary for there is no doubt but that Iames was the chiefe gouernour of the Churche of Ierusalem in all actions during his life after that he was once placed in the Byshopricke You talke in another place of raking of Doctors to proue my purpose but if these be not rakings of scriptures gathered togither to no purpose for the cōfirming of your fonde deuises I know not what you should meane by the name of rakings Chap. 3. the. 49. Diuision T. C. Page 85. Sect. 4. This is he which is called the Byshop in euery Church this is he also whome Iustin whereof mention is made afterwards called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And fynally this is that great Archbyshoppricke and great Byshoppricke that M. Doctor so often stumbleth on This order and preheminence 〈◊〉 Apostles tune and those that were neare them kept and the nerer they came to the Apostles 〈◊〉 the nearer they kept
persecution c. I say that as persecution was then a cause why baptisme as vsually mistred in priuate houses so necessitie is now y t cause why the same is ministred some tymes in priuate families Neither doe I mayntein or allow the administring of the sacraments in priuate families to be vsual or without vrgent cause but only vpon extreme necessitie of sicknesse peril of death such like In which cases as neuer any lerned man misliked ministring of the sacraments in such places so are not you able to shew either scripture doctor or reson to y t coÌ„trary whatsoeuer you say of y e tune of persecutioÌ„ touching y e matter y t same may be said of the time of necessitie also But here I would haue the Reader to note y t you are now driuen to confesse a difference in the Churche betwixte the tyme of persecution and the tyme of prosperitie and that to be conuenient in the one which is not conuenient for the other whiche distinction and diuersitie of tymes you would not before acknowledge to make any difference in the election of ministers and gouernment of the Churche and yet the case is all one Chap. 4. the. 4. Diuision Admonition They should fyrst proue that priuate CoÌ„munion c. are agreeable to the written word of god Answere to the Admonition Pag. 152. Sect. 2. If you meane by priuate Communion the Communion ministred to Of the communion ministred in priuate places one alone there is no such allowed in the boke of Common prayers but if you call it priuate bicause it is ministred sometimes in priuate houses to sicke persons Then haue we the example of Christe who ministred the Supper in a priuate house and inner parlour Mark 14. Luke 22. Math. 26. we haue also the example of the Apostles themselues who did minister the supper in priuate houses especially yf that place be vnderstanded of the supper whiche is in the seconde of the Acts and before alleadged of you to proue that common and vsuall bread ought to be in the Supper Likewise of the primitiue church as appeareth in the seconde apologie of Iustinus Martyr Tertull. de Corona militis and others T. C. Page 112. Sect. 2. And in the page 152. he bringeth other reasons to proue that the Sacramentes may be ministred in a priuate house wherof the fyrste is that our Sauiour Christe celebrated his Supper in a priuate house and in an inner parlour the reason whereof is easyly to be knowne for the lawe of God ordeyned that euery housholder in his house shoulde eate the passouer with his owne familie If it were so great as that they myght well eate vp a whole lambe Io. Whitgifte That is a reason why Christe did eate the passouer in a priuate house but it is no reason why he did celebrate his Supper there in lyke maner Wherefore my reason holdeth as yet Chap. 4. the. 5. Diuision T. C. Pag. 112. Sect. 3. Our sauiour Christ therfore with his housholde obserueth this law and for bicause he woulde declare that the passouer had his ende and that his holy Sacrament should come in place therof he doth foorthwith celebrate his supper in the same place which if he had not done neither could he haue done it at al the houre of his apprehension then approching neyther should it so lyuely haue appeared that eyther the passouer was abolished or that the Supper came in place of it beeyng celebrated both at an other tyme and in an other place Io. Whitgifte Our Sauiour Christes example of instituting and ministring his supper in a priuate familie giuing afterwarde no commaundement to the contrarie is a manifest proofe that the place is not of the substance of the sacramente and that vpon occasion it may be ministred in a priuate house You shewe a reason why Chryste at that Unnecessarie proofe tyme and in that place did minister his Supper but you shewe no reason why wée may not in lyke maner vpon necessarie occasion celebrate the Communion in the lyke place Chap. 4. the. 6. diusion T. C. pag. 112. sect vlt. For the celebrating of the Supper in houses in the Apostles tymes and in Iustinus and Tertullians tymes which were tymes of persecution I haue spoken before where also I declared that suche houses for the tyme are not priuate but publike Io. Whitgifte This answere is as fitte for me as it is for you for admit that the Sacraments may be administred in priuate families in the case of necessitie and I aske no mâ—â—â— For if persecution be a necessarie cause why is not sickenesse and perill of dâ—â—th so in lyke maner agayne if a priuate house be no priuate but a publike place when for the feare of persecution the Sacramentes be ministred in it why is it not so lykewise when they be there ministred for extremitie of sickenesse and feare of death the reason is all one and the case of necessitie like and therfore you haue not sayde any thing agaynst me but with me Chap. 4. the. 7. Diuision T. C. Pag. 113. Sect. 1. And these are his reasons wher with he would proue that the sacraments and therfore also the sacrament of Baptisme may be ministred in a priuate house Io. Whitgifte And these reasons haue you confirmed rather than confuted but to the contrarie Circumcision in priuate houses you haue shewed no reason at all and therfore these stand in ful force to the which I might adde that circumcision was celebrated in priuate families as M. Caluine truly gathereth vpon the. 58. verse of the first chapter of Luke which is a better argument to proue that the Sacramentes may be ministred in priuate places than you haue shewed any to the contrarie ¶ The Sacramentes ministred by other than Ministers Chap. 5. The fyrst Diuision Admonition Then by ministers (vv) Mat. 28. 19 1. Cor. 4. 1 only nowe by Midwyues and Deacons equally Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 93. Sect. 2. That then the Sacraments wer ministred only by ministers you Whether any may minister the sacramentes besides the minister alledge the. 28. of Math. which place is answered before Likewise 1. Cor 4. Let a man so think of vs as of the ministers of Christ disposers of the mysteries of God Here is not one word for your purpose except you take mysteries for sacramentes which if you doe you are much What mystâ—ries be deceiued for by the word mysteries here he vnderstandeth the word of God and gospell of Christ as al learned writers do interprete it Io. Whitgifte Nothing answered to the vnapt allegation of the. 1. Cor. 4. Chap. 5. the. 2. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 93. Sect. 2. We reade in the eight of the Actes that Philip a Deacon did baptize Philip deacon baptised Moyses wife 〈◊〉 circumcise wee reade also that Moyses wife did circumcise But where doth this Churche of Englande allowe any woman to baptize or deacon
of that Sacrament Io. Whitgifte But if it had bene so necessary a matter as you make it and of the substance of the sacramentes it would haue bene expressed by one meanes or other seing therefore it is not the wordes and order of the holy Euangelistes must bée credited before your bolde coniectures The. 5. Diuision Act. 2. Act. 8. 12. Vers. 38. Act. 9. Act. 10. Act. 16. Vers. 15. 33. Act. 20. T. C. Page 125. in the midst And this order of preaching immediatly before the ministring of the Sacramentes is continually noted of S. Luke throughout the whole story of the Actes of the Apostles Io. Whitgifte It is not denied but that men must first be conuerted to Christe by preaching of the worde before the Sacramentes be ministred vnto them and therevnto tende all those places of y e Acts which be noted in y e margent But our questiō is whither preaching be so necessarily ioined with y e administratiō of y e sacramēts y e neither y e faithful which wel vnderstand y e vse of thē neither infantes whose capacitie wyll not serue to learne may be made partakers of y e sacraments without a sermon preached before The. 6. Diuision T. C. Page 125. about the midst But I wyl not precisely say neyther yet do y e authors of y e Admonition affirme as M. doctor surmiseth of them that ther must be preaching immediatly before the administration of the sacramēts This I saye that when as the (*) An vntrue and soule error life of the sacramentes dependeth of the preaching of the worde of God there must of necessitie the worde of God be not read but preached vnto the people amongst whome the sacramentes are ministred Io. Whitgifte What do you saye then or wherefore contende you no man euer denied preaching to be very conuenient But the Authours of the Admonition saye That in the olde tyme the worde was preached before the sacramentes were ministred nowe it is supposed to be sufficient if it be read To what purpose be these woordes spoken except their meaning be to haue the worde preached at all times when the Sacramentes be ministred so that you would séeme to saye something in their defense when you haue done you make a doubt of the matter and begin to halte saying that you wil not precisely saye c. This saying of yours that the life of the sacramentes dependeth of the preaching of the The life of y e sacramentes dependeth not of preaching The absurdities of the assertion of the Replier worde of God c. is moste vntrue and in mine opinion a foule error for the lyfe of the Sacramentes depende vpon Gods promises expressed in his worde and neither vpon preaching nor vpon reading If this doctrine of yours be true then be the sacramites dead sacramentes and without effect except the worde be preached when they be ministred And so in déede do some of your adherentes in playne termes affirme saying that they are seales without writing and playne blankes Whiche doctrine sauoureth very strongly of Anabaptisme and doth depriue those of the effectes and fruites of the Sacramentes which haue bene partakers of them without the worde preached when they were ministred and so consequently euen your selfe for it is not like that there was a sermon at your Christening And therefore this doctrine must of necessitie The doctrine of the Replier tēdeth to plain Anabaptisme bring in both rebaptisation and condemne the baptisme of infantes which is flat Anabaptisticall For if that baptisme be without life at the which the woorde of God is not preached then can it not regenerate or be effectuall to those that were therwith baptised And therefore must of necessitie be iterated that it may be liuely Againe isbaptisme be dead at the which the word of God is not preached then can it do no good to such as haue no vnderstanding of the worde of God preached that is to infantes For if the preaching of the worde be so necessarily ioyned with the administration of the Sacramentes it is in the respect of those that are to receiue the sacraments then must it needes folowe y e the saramēts may be ministred to none but to such as be able to heare the word of God whereby infantes must be secluded from baptisme And in déede this is one of the strongest arguments that the Anabaptistes vse against the baptising of infantes as shal hereafter apeare For of this the Reader shall vnderstand more by y t which straightway I will set down out of Zuinglius The. 7. Diuision T. C. Pag. 125. somevvhat past the midst And forasmuch as I haue proued before that no man may minister the sacraments but he which is able to preach the word although I (*) Belike you are in doubt of your doctrine dare not affirme that there is an absolute necessitie that y e word should be preached immediatly before y e sacramēts be ministred yet I can imagin no case wherin it is either meete or cōuenient or els almost sufferable that the sacramentes should be ministred without a sermon before them for the minister being as he ought of necessitie to be able to preach ought so to do And if it be said that his health or voyce wil not serue him sometimes to preach when he is able enough to minister the sacraments (*) Ergo one may preache out of his own cure which is cōtrary to your doctrine I say that either he ought to beg y e help of an other minister harde by or else there is lesse inconuenience in deferring y e celebration of the sacrament vntil he be strong enough to preach than ministring it so maymedly and without a sermon wherby it is seene how iust cause M. Doctor hath to call these blynde and vnlearned gatherings which he with his Egles eye his great learning can not scatter nor once moue Io. Whitgifte Tract 6. cap. 1 Tract 9. cap. 1. diuis 15 I haue sufficiently proued that the administration of the Sacramente of Baptisme may be committed to those which be not preachers of the worde If the life of the sacrament depende of the preaching of the worde as you haue said before then there is an absolute necessitie that the worde be preached immediatly before the sacramentes be ministred and therefore in making this doubt you doe but declare a wauering mynde and an vncerteyne iudgement Howe can he begge helpe of an other minister seing no man may preache in an other mans cure 〈◊〉 in the 〈◊〉 You greatly forget your self and the absurditie of your doctrine appeareth by your owne contrarieties But nowe that it may be knowen howe neare in this point you approche to Anabaptisme The 〈◊〉 of the 〈◊〉 approcheth to 〈◊〉 ▪ I will note one or two places out of Zuinglius touching this matter In his booke De baptismo speaking against this selfe same assertion of the Anabaptistes he saith thus The
Testamēt to be as it were a continuall maister vnto them to instruct them What needed the same Chrysostome Hom. 3. De Lazaro with Idem suche vehement wordes haue moued the people to reade the Scriptures declaring not onely the commoditie of them but the easinesse also to be vnderstoode Is not this saying both auncient and true That vvhen vvee reade the Scriptures God talketh vvith vs vvhen vvee pray then vve talke vvith God But touching this matter I referre you to that whiche I haue spoken before in the former parte of your Admonition And also I beseech you take paynes to peruse the. 15. Article of that notable Iewell and worthy Bishop late of Sarisburie wherein he of purpose intreateth of this matter agaynst M. Harding Io. Whitgifte All this you haue lefte vnanswered saue onely that you haue touched the laste of Masculus his reasons ¶ Of Ministring and Preaching by Deacons Tract 14. The. 1. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 93. Sect. 2. We reade in the eight of the Actes that Philip beyng a Deacon Philip deacon baptised did Baptise T. C. Pag. 128. Lin. 1. Of ministring of the sacraments in priuate places and by women I haue spoken before there remayneth therfore only in this section to speake of the Deacons that they ought not to minister the sacrament Which although I haue done partly before and partly afterward will do when I shall shew that it apperteyneth not to them to minister the worde and therefore not the sacraments being things the ministerie whereof ought not to be seuered yet I will in a worde answere those arguments that M. Doctor bringeth for to proue that they may minister the sacramentes wherof the first is that Philip in the. 8. of the Actes baptised But I would gladly aske M. Doctor how he is able to proue that that was Philip the Deacon and not rather Philip the Apostle seing that S. Luke when he speaketh of Philip that was the Deacon speaketh of him with that title addition of Deaconship and there is great doubt amongst writers which Philip that was that S. Luke mentioneth in the eight chapter of the Actes of the Apostles But let it be that Philip that was the Deacon I answere that he was no Deacon then for the Church of Ierusalem whereof he was Deacon being scattered he could be no more Deacon of it or distribute the mony that was collected for the poore of that Churche And further I answere that he was afterwarde an Euangelist and therefore preached not by vertue of his Deaconship whose calling is not to preach but by that he was an Euangelist whose office put vpon him a necessitie of preaching Io. Whitgifte In the beginning of that 8. chap. of the Actes S. Luke declareth that all the Apostles Philip that baptised Samaria was a Deacon did still remayne at Ierusalem wherefore it could not be Philip the Apostle which was now at Ierusalem but it muste néedes be Philip the Deacon that was dispersed with the rest came to Samaria where he now preached baptised And of this indgement is M. Caluine whose wordes vpon the same place chapt be these Caluine Seing Luke had before declared that the Apostles did not stirre from Ierusalem it is probable that one of the seuen Deacons whose daughters also did Prophecie is here mentioned M. Gualter writing vpon the same place sayeth thus This Philip was not the Apostle Gualter but he whiche was reckened before among the Deacons as the auncient Ecclesiasticall writers do with one consent testifie especially Epiphanius wryting De Simone Simoniacis That this Philip still remayned Deacon and that he was called an Euangelist in respecte that he preached the Gospell though he were but a Deacon Act. 21. it appeareth Act. 21. Where S. Luke speaketh of him in this manner And wee entring into the house of Philip the Euangelist whiche was one of the seuen c. And further that he still remayned Deacon althoughe he was nowe departed from Gualter Ierusalem M. Gualter declareth in the eyght of the Actes in these words Althoughe it was the office of Deacons to take charge of the common treasures of the Churche and of the poore yet was it heerewith permitted vnto them to take the office of preaching if at anyttme necessitie required as we haue hitherto seene in the example of Stephen And peraduenture there was not so great neede of Deacons at Ierusalem when the Churche was through persecution dispersed and therefore they whiche before werc stewardes of the Churche goodes dyd giue them selues wholly to the ministerie of the worde The Epipha de Simone Simoniac wordes of Epiphanius whome M. Gualter mentioneth be these For when Philip beeing a Deacon had not authoritie to lay on handes that thereby he mighte giue the holy Ghost c. Whereby it is playne that Philip béeing Deacon did baptise thoughe he had not authoritie imponendi manus to lay on handes Augustine also in his questions speaking of Philip sayth thus Et iternm mnltum Aug. in quaest ex vtroque test distare inter Diaconum Sacerdotem liber approbat quem dicimus actus Apostolorum c. Agayne the booke which we call the Actes of the Apostles dothe proue that a Deacon differeth muche from a Priest for when they of Samaria beleeued the preaching of Philip the Deacon they sent sayth he vnto them Peter and Iohn c. The seconde diuision T. C. Page 128. Lin. 19. Sect. 1. After you say that Deacons are not permitted wyth vs to celebrate the Lords supper and why then should they be suffered to minister baptisme as if the one Sacrament were not as precious as the other This is a miserable rending in sunder of those things whiche God hathe ioyned togither not onely to separate the ministery of the Sacraments from the worde but also the ministery of one sacrament from an other And what reason is there that it shoulde be graunted vnto one that can not preache beeing as they (a) Why ▪ do you account him no minister ▪ this geare would be marked call him a minister to minister bothe the sacraments when as the same is not permitted vnto a Deacon as they call him whyche is able to preach I doe not speake it for that I would haue those whych be deacons in deede that is which haue charge to prouide for the poore of some one congregation should eyther preache or minister the sacraments but I say that it is agaynst all reason to permit the ministerie of the sacraments to those whych can not preache and to deny it to those whych are able to preache Io. Whitgifte I doe but in that poynte agrée with the Scriptures and all other wryters for the moste parte bothe olde and newe who testifie that Deacons dyd preache the worde and minister the Sacrament of Baptisme But I can not reade in any author where they ministred the Communion and
qui bene praesunt c. The Elders that rule well are worthie double honour specially they which labour in the worde and doctrine Where although S. Paule maketh a distinction of Seniors yet it is certayne that vnder the name of Seniors he doth comprehende such onely as be Ministers of the woorde or Sacramentes Tract 9. cap. 1. the. 15. diuisiō Tract 6. Cap. 1. And I haue before sufficiently proued that the administration of the Sacramentes may be committed to some to whome the preachyng of the woorde of God is not committed And this distinction of Ministers doth this place 1. Timot. 5. very well iustifie for vnlesse the Apostle S. Paule had ment that of Ministers some preached some onely ministred the Sacramentes he woulde not haue sayde Maximè qui laborant sermone doctrina onely but qui laborant sermone administratione Sacramentorum for so shoulde he playnely haue declared that there were some Presbyteri whiche did neyther labour in Preaching nor in the Administration of the Sacramentes This same distinction of ministers is also iustified by that whiche the Apostle speaketh 1. Corinth 1. Non misit me Christus vt Baptizarem c. Meaning 1. Cor. 1. bycause the worde was the greater therefore he might not leaue the greater for the lesse Nowe if all they that baptized had the gifte of preaching also why might not and ought not they in like manner to say Christe sent vs not to baptize but to preach S. Ambrose writing vpon these woordes Aduersus Presbyterum c. Agaynst an Ambrose 1. Tim. 5. Elder receyue no accusation c. Which immediately follow the other doth vnderstand thereby Ministers and Priestes onely for he calleth them Vicarios Christi Christes vicars and Antistites Dei Gods Prelates So doth M. Caluine in like manner expound Caluin in 1. Tim. 5. the same woorde of Pastors and Teachers I know that in the exposition of this sentence Qui bene praesunt presbyteri c. he maketh two kindes of Seniors but yet doth he Instit. Cap. 8. Sect. 52. where he purposely speaketh of Seniors say that they were all preachers Neyther do I sée any cause why this woorde Presbyter shoulde not in both these places be taken in one and the same signification Chrysostome also if Chrysost. his woordes be well marked vpon this place of Timoth. Presbyteri qui bene praesunt c. it will appeare that he doth not extende this woorde Presbyter to any other than to Ministers of the woorde and Sacramentes The woordes of Ierome be playne for expounding these woordes Maximè qui laborant Ierome c. He sayeth thus Non dixit omnium qui habent verbum sed qui laborant in verbo Caeterùm omnes habentes praecipit ordinare He sayeth not of all that haue the worde but that labour in the worde But he commaunded him to ordeyne all that haue the worde And surely I haue not read this woorde in any auncient Historie or Father commonly taken in any other signification Chap. 1. the. 2. Diuision Admonition In steade of Chancelours Archdeacons Officialls Commissaries Proctors Doctors summoners Churchwardens and such lyke you haue to place in euery congregation a lawfull and godly Seigniorie Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 125. Sect. 1. But I pray you do thus much for me first proue that there was Certaine questions deman̄ded to be proued in euery cōgregation such as you call Seniors when you haue done that thē shew me that that office kind of regimēt ought to be perpetuall and not rather to be altered according to the state and condition of the Churche last of all that those Seniors were lay men as we call them and not rather ministers of the worde and Bishops When you haue satisfied my request in these three pointes then wil I proceede further in this matter T. C. Pag. 138. In the midst Now that it is knowne what these Seniors be in entreating of them I am contēt to answere M. Doctor three requestes which he maketh in the 125. page where he desireth that one would do so much for him as first to shewe that these Seniors were in euery congregation secondarily he will haue it proued that this regiment is perpetuall and not to be altered last of all he desireth to know whether these Seniors werelay men and not rather ministers of the worde and Bishops This last is a fonde request and such as is already answered but he muste be followed For the first therefore which is that there were Seniors in euery congregation although M. Doctor in the. 114. page in the. 132. page cōstrayned by Ambrose authoritie confesseth it in plaine wordes yet bycause he requireth it to be shewed and maketh a iest at those places which are alleaged out of the scripture to proue it some thing must be spoken thereof Io. Whitgifte You builde your platforme vpon marueylous slender proofes except the Reader will beleue your bare woordes he shal finde great scarcitie of any other argumentes For where haue you as yet proued your opinion of Seniors to be true The place of S. Paule 1. Tm. 5 doth not helpe you being otherwise taken expoūded of the aunciēt fathers but I will follow your rase The last question you say is fond already answered Answered as yet it is not and the fondnesse of it will appeare by the wisedome of your answere hereafter The woordes of Ambrose be that the Synagogue after the church had Seniors c. in 1. Tim. 5. but he sayeth not that euery seuerall congregation had Seniors for it was not so among the Iewes Therefore it cannot be gathered of Ambrose that euery particular parish had Seniors Neyther is there any auncient Author that affirmeth it Touching the hauing of Seniors in the Church why it was then conuenient and is not so now I haue declared in the Answere to the Admonition Chap. 1. the. 3. Diuision T. C. Pag. 138. Somevvhat past the midest The first place is in the Actes which is that Paule Barnabas did appoynt by election Elders Act. 14. in euery congregation but it is (*) A 〈◊〉 not like they did appoynt diuerse ministers or Bishops which preached in euery congregation which were not to be had for such a number of congregations as were then to be preached vnto therefore in euery congregation there were besides those that preached other Elders which did onely in gouernment assist the pastors which preached And what should we folow coniectures here when S. Paule doth in the place before alleaged declare 1. Tim. 9. what these elders are Io. Whitgifte If you haue no stronger place to cōfirme your Seniors by than this they will fall The place Actes 14. proueth nothing for Seniors flat to the ground For it is most certayne that Luke in this place by Presbyteros doth only meane Pastors and Preachers of the woorde as he doth also through the whole Actes
first priuately admonished this maketh nothing for your purpose it taketh away authoritie of iudging and condemning from priuate men and not from publike magistrates In the. 12. of the first to the Corinth verse 28. these be the words of the Apostle And God hath ordeyned some in the Churche as first Apostles secondly Prophetes thirdly teachers then them that do miracles after that the gifte of healing helpers gouernours diuersitie of tounges How can you gather of these wordes that all this commeth to passe that is hatred fauour corruption by money and affection in iudgement bycause the regiment lefte of Christe to his Churche is committed to one mans hands In these wordes the Apostle declareth that Christ hath lefte in his Churche gouernours and thereof you may well conclude that in the Churche there muste be some whiche shoulde haue authoritie ouer the reste The Apostle dothe not here An vnperfect reason say that in euery particular congregation Christ hath left many gouernours no more than he sayeth that he hath left many pastors for one flocke but in his Churche he hath ordeyned gouernours The gouernement of the whole vniuersall Churche is not by Christe committed to one Bishop or one Prince nor the gouernment of the whole worlde to one Emperour for no one man can discharge such a cure and therefore he hath appoynted in his Churche diuers Bishops diuers Princes many gouernours But one Prince may suffise to gouerne one kingdome and one Archbishop one Prouince as chiefe and principall ouer the reste one Byshop one Diocesse one Pastor one parishe neyther doth the Apostle speake any thing to the contrarie In the. 12. to the Romaines it is thus written he that ruleth vvith diligence What maketh this for your purpose or how cā you wring it to your assertion In the. 5. of the. 1. to Timothie The Elders that rule vvell are vvorthy of double honour c. Paule sheweth in these wordes that suche are worthy theyr stipende reward which rule well in the Church and do their duties diligently But what is that to your assertion The places alledged out of the fiftenth of the Actes be of the like sorte Wheresoeuer mention is made in the Scriptures of gouernours Lacke of discretion in al ging of scriptures or Elders that you alledge to improue the gouernment of one man wherein you shewe a great wante of iudgement And yet there is no one person in this Realme the Prince only excepted which hath such absolute iurisdiction as you would make your disciples beleue But your meaning is that Christe lefte the whole gouernment of his Churche to the Pastor and to some foure of fiue of the Parish besides which you are not able to proue your places of scripture alleged signifie no such matter In those places y t be gouerned by many do you not see what cōtention there is what enimitie what factiōs what partes taking what cōfusion what little good order obserued what carelesnesse dissolutnesse in al māner of behauiour I could make this manifest by examples if I were disposed In the. 18. of Exodus which place you quote to proue that Seniors ought to be zelous and godly Iethro giueth Moses counsell not to weary himselfe in hearing all matters that be brought vnto him but rather to commit the hearing and determining of smaller matters to others And therefore verse 21. he sayeth Prouide thou among all the people men of courage fearing God men dealyng truly hauing couetousnesse and appoynt suche ouer them to be rulers ouer thousands rulers ouer hundredes rulers ouer fifties and rulers ouer tennes c. This maketh nothing for Seniors Moses here was chiefe these were but his vnder officers placed by himselfe This place serueth well for the gouernment of one Prince ouer one whole realme and giueth him good counsell what vnder officers he ought to choose To the same effect and purpose is that spoken and written whiche you cite out of the first of Deuteron verse 13. T. C. Pag. 146. Sect. 1. The rest comprehended in these sections is answered before beyng matter whiche perteyned vnto the Archbishop Io. Whitgifte Uery litle of it perteyneth to the Archbishop The Authors of y ◠Admonitiō bring in all these places of Scripture to proue the gouernment of your Seniors but how aptly it app areth in that you cannot salue their follies in so vnapt allegatiōs There be other thinges that require answere but you haue shifted of all in saying that they perteyne to the Archbishop be answered before when as neyther of both is true for they perteyne to your Seniors and be no where as yet answered But I leaue it to the Reader here to consider why you haue not set downe my booke in your Replie ¶ The inconuenience of the Seigniorie in the tyme of Christian Princes especially in the state of this Church Chap. 3. Nowe that you haue spoken all that you can for your Seniors giue me leaue a litle to declare the absurdities and inconueniences that must of necessitie follow that kinde of gouernment 1. Difference disagrement in orders and religion First euery seuerall parish must be as it were a seuerall Church gouerned by seuerall orders ceremonies yea and peraduenture professe seueral points of doctrine for there muste be equalitie among ministers and one of them muste not haue to do with anothers parishe The whole gouernment of the Parish must remayne in the minister and certayne Seniors who shall haue authoritie to correct vice abolishe ceremonies appoynt orders abregate customes make Ecclesiasticall lawes as they shall thinke good for that congregation So that whatsoeuer the Pastor and his Seniors deuise and agrée vpon be it good or euill common or singular it must be obeyed vnder the payne of Excommunication Secōdly that Seigniorie being choosen by the Pastor the parish if the Prince or 2. Confusion of 〈◊〉 any other noble man be of that congregation choosen to that office by the most parte he must not refuse it but attende vpō it be at M. Pastors calling who is the chiefe of the Seigniorie in that respect aboue Earle Duke Ring or whosoeuer moreouer he must be contented to be lincked ioyned in commission with the basest sort of the people if it please the parish to appoynt to him suche Colleags as it is like they will Yea and if they be in matters of discipline and gouernment by such simple Seniors ouerruled as it is most like they shall they must therewith be contented Thirdly it burdeneth the parish more than they are able to beare for wheras now 3. Burden and charge of parishes they repine at the finding of their Pastors then they muste be enforced besides the Pastor to nourish Deacons and sixe or seuen Seniors with widowes also Fourthly it bringeth in a new Popedome tyrānie into the Church for it giueth 4. Tyranny to the Pastor his fellow Seniors authoritie to exercise discipline by
Pag. 152. Sect. 2. And whereas Master Doctor sayth that the office of the Deacons is not onely to prouide for the poore but also to preach and minister the Sacraments I haue shewed before that it both not apperteync vnto them to doe eyther the one or the other For the proofe whereof this place of the Romaines quoted by the Admonition is verie fitte and most proper For S. Paule speaketh there agaynst those which not contenting themselues with their owne vocations did breake into that which apperteyned vnto others as it the hande shoulde take vpon it the office of the eye or of some other member of the bodie and therefore Saint Paule doth as it were bounde and poynt the lymittes of euerie office in the Church and so placeth the Deacons office onely in the prouision for the poore This one thing I will adde to that matter that if the Apostles whiche had such excellent and passing gyftes did finde themselues preaching of the worde and attending to prayer not able to prouide for the poore but thought it necessarie to discharge themselues of that office to the ende they might doe the other effectually and frutefully he that shall doe both nowe must eyther do none well and profitably or else he must haue greater giftes than the Apostles had Io. Whitgifte I haue proued before manifestly that it perteyned to the office of a Deacon to Tract 14. preach and to minister the Sacrament of Baptisme and to helpe in other businesse perteyning to the Church I haue alledged both manifest examples out of the scripture to iustifie the same and the practise of the primitiue Church togither with the testimonies both of the auncient and late wryters and vndoubtedly you are dryuen to a great streight when you are inforced to vse this place of the. 12. to the Romaines to proue the contrary for though it were ment of Deacons yet doth it not proue in any respect your purpose neyther can you frame any argument of it to that ende Neither Steuen nor Philip when they being Deacons preached and the one ministred the Sacrament of Baptisme also did breake into that whiche apperteyned not vnto them being incident to their office when they be therevnto called The Apostles were occupied in planting Churches in going from place to place to spreade abrode the worde of God and therefore they coulde not so conueniently prouide for the posre but the Deacons hauing no such occasion of traveling and remouing from place to place might very well both preach the Gospell and prouide for the poore Neither can I conceiue any reason to the contrarie for I thinke they spent no greate tyme in turning ouer manie volumes to prouide for their Sermons bicause God gaue to them extraordinarie gyftes of knowledge vtterance and suche lyke necessarie for their function And if you speake of Deacons nowe I say vnto you that vnder a Christian Prince in the tyme of peace that part of their Some part of the Deacons office not so needfull in the time of christian magistrats office to prouide for the poore is not necessarie séeing that by other lawfull and politike meanes they may much better be prouided for Wherfore glorie as much as you will in your owne witte and reason yet in these heauenly diuine things your reasons shall proue but vaine and vntowarde Chap. 1. the. 5. Diuision Admonition Againe in the olde Church euery (w) Phil. 1. 1. Iohn 13. 27 Acts. 6. 5. 1. Tim. 3. 8. congregation had their Deacons Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 120. O how aptly you haue alledged the scriptures to proue that euery congregation had their Deacons In the first to the Philip. these be Whether deacons were in euery congregation the wordes Paule and Timotheus c. to all the Saincts vvhiche are at Philippi vvith the Bishops and Deacons Paule Timotheus salute the Bishops and Deacons which are at Philippi Therfore in those dayes euerie congregation had their Deacons a straunge kinde of reasoning you might well haue thus concluded Ergo at Philippi there was Deacons But surely this argument is to much out of Unapt arguments square there was Deacons at Philippi therefore euerie congregation had their Deacons In the. 13. of S. Iohn verse 27. these be the wordes And after the soppe Sathan entered into him then sayde Iesus vnto him that thou doest do quickly After Supper Satan entered into Iudas and Iesus sayde vnto him that thou doest do quickly Therefore euerie Cōgregation had their Deacons No maruel though your margent be pestred with Scriptures when you take libertie to make ex quolibet quidlibet Peraduenture you meane that Iudas was a Deacon as he was not but an Apostle bycause he caryed the bagge and that some of the Apostles thought that Christ had bid him giue some what to the poore belike whosoeuer giueth a pennie to the poore at his masters commaundement is with you a Deacon In the sixt of the Actes we learne that there were chosen seuen Deacons but there is not one worde to proue that euery congregation had their Deacons In the thirde of the first to Timothie S. Paule sheweth what qualities and conditions a Deacon ought to haue but not one worde of Deacons being in euery Congregation This is great audacitie thus manifestly to wring the Scriptures without all colour or shewe of reason T. C. Pag. 152. Sect. vlt. The second point is touching that there were Deacons in euery Church which is wel proued of the Admonition both by the place of the Philippians and of the Acts for although it be not there sayd that the deacons were in euery church yet forsomuch as the same vse of thē was in all Churches whiche was in Ierusalem and at Philippes and for that the Apostles as hath beene before touched labouring after the vniformitte of the Church ordeyned the same officers in all Churches the proofe of one is the proofe of all and the shewing that there were Deacons in one Church is the shewing in all The place which they alledge out of the first to Timothe is of all other most proper for S. Paule there describing not how the Church of Ephesus but simplie and generally how the Church must be gouerned reckeneth there the order of Deacons whereunto may be added the continuall practise of the Church long after the Apostles tymes which appeareth by the often superscriptions and subscriptions in these wordes the Bishop Elders and Deacons of suche a Church and vnto the Bishops Elders and Deacons of such a Church And by that it is so oftentymes sayde in the councels where the Churches assembled that there were so many Bishops so many Elders so many deacons Io. Whitgifte And I say againe that they be most vnapt reasons for the Deacons office was not so troublesome but that the Deacons of one Citie might serue all the Churches and congregations belonging vnto the same neyther haue you read eyther in scripture or any auncient
the other prayers annexed they be lykewise according to the scripture for they be made to God in Christes name for suche thinges as we neede or as we desire according to that saying of Christ Quicquid petieritis c. VVhatsoeuer you aske my father in my name c. And agayne Petite dabitur vobis Aske and it shall be giuen vnto you Mat. 7. Iacob 1. If any of you lacke wisdome let him aske it c. And. 1. Timoth. 2. with other infinite places besides If you would haue vs to proue that to reade prayers or scripture Only Zuinfildians misliked reading of scriptures in the Church is according to the word of God which you seeme to denie then we say vnto you ▪ that if there were any pietie in you any religion any learning you would make no such vayne and godlesse doubts was there euer any from the beginning of the world to this day the Zuinfildians onely excepted that misliked reading of prayers and scriptures in the Church but you Of wafer cakes ministring in surplesse or cope churching of women I haue spoken Pag. 154. Sect. 3. before wafer cakes be bread surplesse cope by those that haue authoritie in the church are thought to perteyne to comelynesse and decencie Churching of women is to giue thāks for their deliuerāce Bread to be vsed in the Cōmunion comelynesse and decencie giuing of thanks for deliuerance out of peril daunger be agreable to Gods word therfore al these things be agreable to gods word The forme of bread whether it ought to be cake bread or loafe bread euery particular Determination of the Churche in things indifferent thing that perteyneth to decencie or comelynesse at what time in what place with what words we ought to giue thanks is not particularly written in scripture no more than it is that you were baptized And therfore as I haue proued before in such cases the Church hath to determine and appoynt an order Admonition But their craft is playne wherin they deceyue them selues standing so much vpon this word repugnant as though nothing were repugnant or agaynst the worde of God but that whiche is expressely forbidden by playne commaundement they know well inough and would confesse if eyther they were not blinded or else their hearts hardned that in the circumstances eache content 〈◊〉 iudgement wherwith we iustly finde fault and they too contentiously for the loue of their liuings maynteyne smelling of their olde Popish priesthoode is agaynst the worde of God Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 156. 157. Sect. 1. If they were disposed to be craftie I thinke they might soone deceyue you for any great circumspection or discretion that appeareth to be in you by this booke You finde great fault that we stande so muche vpō this word repugnant as though nothing were repugnant or agaynst the word of God but that which is expressely forbidden by playne cōmaundement and herein you saye we deceyue our selues But you do not tell vs howe we are deceyued neither do you let vs vnderstande what you thinke this worde repugnant doth signifie This is but slender dealing to finde a fault and not to correct it you should yet haue tolde vs your opiniō of the signification of this worde seeing so great a matter doth depende vpon it True it is that this worde repugnant or agaynst the worde of God is to The worde repugnant expounded be contrarie to that which in the worde is comaunded or forbidden not onely in manifest words but also in sense and vnderstanding except you vnderstande this worde repugnant on this sorte you wyll bring in many poynts of daungerous doctrine for we reade in the Acts. 2. 4. that the Apostles had all things common and yet Christians haue not al things common Those that were then conuerted to the Gospell solde all they had and layde it at the Apostles feete Act 4. Now it is farre otherwise Then Christ ministred his supper at night after supper we in the morning before dinner he in a priuate house we in the publike Churche he to men onely we to women also with a great many of such apparant contrarieties which be none in deede bicause they be not agaynst any thing cōmaunded or forbidden to be done or not to be done eyther in expresse words or in true sense And therfore you are greatly deceyued when you think that we are persuaded that those things which you find fault with be agaynst the worde of God As for this your saying If eyther they were not blinded or else their harts hardened I pray God it be not most aptly spoken of your selues but I will not take vpon me to iudge those secrets that be onely knowne to God and your selues Admonition By the worde of God it is an office of preaching they make it an office of reading Christe sayde (a) Mat. 26. 19 Mar. 16. 15 go preache Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 158. Sect. vlt. You say by the worde of God the ministerie is an office of preaching and we make it an office of reading To proue it to be an office of preaching you note in your margent Matth. 26. But I thinke your meaning is the. 28. and Mark 16. where Christ sayth to his Disciples Go therfore and teach all nations c. What if a man should say vnto you that this commission was giuen onely to the Apostles for he sayth Go into the whole worlde where as you teach now that no man may come into the ministerie except he first haue a stocke then must he keepe him with his flocke and go no further If this doctrine be true then can not this place serue your turne for as the office of Apostle is ceased by your doctrine so is this commission also except you will haue the one part to stande that is Goe and preach and this to be abrogated In vniuersum mundum into the vvhole vvorlde Io. Whitgifte You haue not any where answered directly to any of this and to the most of it and diuers other things included betwixt the. 151. Page and the. 171. You haue not answered one woorde which the Reader by conference may vnderstand and I for breuities sake haue omitted to set downe ¶ Of reading of Homilies and the Apocrypha in the Churche Chap. 2. the. 1. Diuision Admonition The second reason In this booke also it is appoynted that after the Creede if there be no sermon an homily must follow eyther already set out or hereafter to be set out This is scarce playne dealyng that they would haue vs to consent vnto that which we neuer saw and whiche is to be set out hereafter we hauing had such cause already to distrust them by that whiche is already set out beyng corrupt and straunge to maynteyne an vnlearned and reading ministerie And sith it is playne that mens workes ought to be kepte in and nothing else but the voyce of God and holy Scriptures
agaynst ciuill offices in ecclesiasticall persons examined Chap. 2. the first Diuision T. C. Pag. 167. Sect. 1. Nowe that I haue shewed that the places quoted by the Admonition are for the most parte to the purpose of that they be quoted for I wil adde a reason or two to this purpose before I come to answere to those reasons which are brought by M. Doctor Here I must desire the Reader to remember which I sayde before when I spake agaynst non residencie the multitude difficultie of those things which are required of the minister of the word of God And withal I wil leaue to the consideration of euery one the great infirmitie and weaknesse which is in men both the which considerations set togither it will easily appeare howe vnmeete a thing it is that the minister shoulde haue any other charge layde vpon him seeing that it beeing so weightie an office as wyll require all the giftes he hath be they neuer so great it must needes fall out that so muche as he dothe man other calling so muche he leaueth vndone in this Io. Whitgifte The Reader may easily iudge howe fitly they were alleaged in that they néeded your commentarie to teache the application of them which otherwyse woulde haue asked some cunning to make them to serue the turne But as the places be vnfitly quoted by them so are they in déede as slenderly defended by you as may appeare in your Replyes and my Answeres Your first argumēt why ecclesiastical persons may not exercise ciuil offices is this The multitude and difficultie of those things whych are required of the minister are suche and the weaknesse and infirmitie of man so great that the minister can not execute any other offyces c. This had some likelyhoode in it if the minister should execute any office contrarie or repugnant to his ecclesiasticall function But séeing I haue before declared that such ciuill offices as be nowe committed to Bishops and other of the Cleargie be necessarie helpes to their other callings and moste profitable for the good and quiet gouernment of the Churche this argument of it selfe falleth to the grounde But why may you not as well reason thus the multitude and greatnesse of those things that are required of a Christian be suche and the infirmitie and frayltie of man so great that if he did nothing but giue him selfe to spirituall meditation and neuer meddle with worldly affayres he were not able to doe his full duetie therefore no Christian man may practise any suche thing or meddle in worldly and ciuill matters This argument is the roote of Anabaptisme Chap. 2. the. 2. Diuision T. C. Pag. 167. in the midst And what the hande of man is able to reache heerein it is to be considered in the Apostles whome if the office of the ministerie dyd so wholly occupie and set a worke that they could admitte no other charge with it yea and were fayne to cast of that whych they had it is cleare that none of those which lyue nowe can beside that function admit any other publike calling The story is knowne in the Acts that the Apostles euen during the tune that they kept togither at Ierusalem Act. 6. and taught the Churche there were fayne that they might the better attende vnto preaching and praying by which two thyngs S. Luke summarily setteth foorth the office of the ministerie to giue ouer the charge of prouiding for the poore vnto others bycause they were not able to do both Now for so much as the Apostles endued with suche giftes as none haue beene since or shall be hereafter could not discharge togither with the office of the minister that also of the Deacon howe shoulde any man be founde that togither with that office can discharge the office of a ciuill Magistrate And if the Apostles would not haue the office of a Deacon whiche was ecclesiasticall and therefore of the same kynde with the ministerie ioyned vnto it howe muche lesse wyll they suffer that the ministerie should be ioyned with a ciuill offyce and therefore of an other kynde For reason teacheth that there is an easier mingling of those whych are of one kynde than of those whiche are of dyuers kyndes Io. Whitgifte It is euident that the Apostles from the ascention of Christ into heauen vntill Why the Apo stles left of the Deaconship Caluine this time did execute both the office of the Apostles and the office of Deacons also Wherby it is manyfest that these offices may at sometimes méete togither in one and the selfe same person And M. Caluine vpon the. 6. of the Actes sayth That they dyd not altogither caste off this care for the poore sed leuationem quaesijsse vt suo muneri intenti esse possent but that they sought an easing thereof that they might be intentiue vnto their offyce The causes therfore that moued the Apostles to leaue off from executing the one that is the Deaconship is to be considered One cause was the great encrease of the number of Christians whiche was nowe growne to suche a multitude that the Apostles coulde not well both make prouision for the poore and gyue them selues also bothe to preaching and praying An other cause was the murmuring and grudging of the Gretians who thought that the Apostles had more regarde to prouide for their owne countrey men the Iewes than for the Erecians béeing straungers vnto them Wherefore the Apostles béeing willing to eschewe this grudging and repyning dyd for auoyding the suspition of partialitie will the whole multitude to choose them Deacons and both those causes be expressed in the beginning of the. 6. hapter of the Acts. The thirde cause was for that the Apostles knewe that they shoulde shortly be dispersed and that their office was to goe from place to place to plant Churches and preache the Gospell so that they coulde not nowe execute the office of Deacons as they dyd whilest they remayned togither This beeing so as it can not be denied there can be no likely argument gathered of this place that ecclesiasticall persons may not haue some kinde of ciuill functions And if a man well consider howe busie and troublesome an office the Deaconship was at that tyme the Churche béeing in persecution and the number of poore great he shall easily perceyue that there is no comparison betwixt the troublesomnesse of that office then and the ciuill offices nowe committed to ecclesiastical persons which be so farre from hindering their ecclesiasticall functions that they worke the cleane contrarie effect And yet it is certayne that the Apostle S. Paule and Titus with Luke or as some thinke Barnabas did togither with the office of preaching make collections for the poore 2. Corinth 8. Chap. 2. the. 3. Diuision T. C. Pag. 167. somvvhat tovvards the ende Agayne how can we iustly reproue the Papistes for the vse of bothe the swords spirituall an materiall when as we are founde in the same faulte our selues And surely
158. Lin. 15. c. that can not sée Beside this it is a Popish and an vngodly opinion contrarie to the worthinesse and profitablenesse of the Scriptures contrarie to the wordes of Christ Iobn 5. Iohn 5. Search the Scripture c. contrarie to the wordes of the Apostle 2. Tim. 3. Omnis 2. Tim. 3. Tract 13. scriptura diuinitùs inspirata c. And contrarie to all that that I haue alleaged before for the reading of the Scriptures to the which for the further confutation of this vngodly error I do referre the Reader Ansvvere to the Detractions c. Fol. 3. Iu the same leafe and fift reason to these wordes Besides that we neuer reade in the new Testament that this worde Priest as touching office is vsed in the Correction with exceptiō good part In the seconde edition is added except it speake of the Leuiticall Priesthoode or of the Priesthood of Christ. Here as I thinke they haue forgotten that which Peter speaketh to all Christians in his 1. Epist. cap. 2. ver 5. And ye as lyuely stones be made a spirituall house and holy Priesthod to offer vp spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God by Iesus Christ. ver 9. But ye are a chosen generation a royal priesthood c. And Apo. 1. And make vs Kings and Priests vnto God c. I willed them before to shew me one place in the whole newe Testament where this word Priest as touching the office is takē in euill part I may be deceyued but I desire to learne T. C. Pag. 174. Sect. 1. And vpon the. 3. leafe where he giueth instance in the Apocalips of the word Priest to be taken otherwise than for the Leuitical priesthood and priesthood of our sauiour Christ. M. D. cannot be ignorant that the Admonition speaketh of those which be priests in deed properly and not by those which are priests by a inctaphore and borowed speach And wheras he desireth to learne where the worde priest is taken in euill part in all the new testament Although all men see how he asketh this question of no mind to learne yet if he will learne as he sayth he shall find that in (*) In what Chapter ▪ the Acts of the Apostles it is taken diuers times in euill part For seing that the office function of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is of priests was after our sauiour christs ascētion naught vngodly the name wherby they were called which did exercise that vngodly function cannot be otherwise takē than in the euil part Io. Whitgifte And what say you to the places of S. Peter is not this worde priest taken in good part there also I desired to haue one place in all the new Testamēt named vnto me where this word priest is taken in euil part you send me ouer to the Acts of the Apostles naming neither text nor chapter yet that satisfieth not my request for the Authors of the Admonition in their corrections except the Leuitical priesthood and the priesthood of Christ whereof onely there is mention made in the Actes of the Apostles except it be in the. 14. of the Acts where Luke speaketh of heathnish priests as of the priest of Jupiter so that my question is as yet vnanswered by you Ansvvere to the Additions c. Fol. 5. But of the Bishops benediction by laying on of his handes heare master Caluines iudgement in this Instit. cap. 19. Section 4. Talem manuum Imposition of handes in confirmation allowed by Caluin impositionem quae simpliciter loco benedictionis fiat laudo restitutam hodiè in purum vsum velim Such imposition of handes as is simplie made in the stead of blessing I do commende and vvish that it vvere restored at this day to the pure vse There shall you also read the verie self same forme and maner of confirmation allowed which is now vsed in this Church of England T. C. Pag. 174. Sect. 2. Master Doctor vpon the. 5. leafe cyteth M. Caluins authoritie to proue that the laying on of the handes vpon yong children the confirmation which is here vsed is good In the which place although he allow of a kinde of confirmation yet he doth not commend that which we haue For he doth plainly reproue Ierome for saying that it came from the Apostles which notwithstanding the confirmation with vs doth affirme Besides that there are other abuses which I haue noted there which M. Caluin doth not by any worde allow He alloweth indeede of a putting on of handes of the children when they come out of their childehoode or begin to be yong men but as well as he doth allow of it he was one of those which did thrust it out of the Chuch where he was Pastor And (*) He re you make M. Caluine contrarie to him selfe but vntruly so he alloweth of it that he bringeth in the sixt Section of the same Chapter a strong reason to abolish it Where he asketh what the imposition of handes shoulde do now seeing that the giftes of the holy Ghost by that ceremonie is ceased Therefore seeing that we haue M. Caluins reason agaynst this imposition of handes his name ought not to be preiudiciall vnto vs especially seeing that we haue experience of great inconuemences which come by it which maister Caluin could not haue that thing being not in vse in that Church where he liued Which inconuenience in things which are not necessarie ought to be a iust cause of abolishing of them And this is not my indgement onely but the iudgement of the Churches of Heluetia Berne Tigurine Geneua Scotlande and diuers others as appeareth in the. 19. Chap. of their confession Io. Whitgifte The common refuge of the Replier is to discredite the Authour Here you would shift of M. Caluins authoritie if you knew how but béeing ouerpressed with his manifest wordes you flie to your common vsual refuge that is to discredite the Authour by charging him with contrarieties in this matter for you confesse that he alloweth a kind of confimation you say also that he alloweth in deed of a putting on of handes of the children when they come out of their childhoode or begin to be yong men and againe you affirme that he was one of those that did thrust it oute of the Churche where he was Pastor and that he bringeth in the 6. Section of the same Chapter a strong reason to abolish it Thus you set Master Caluine against himselfe and that in the same Caluin vntruely charged with contrariety by the Replyer Chapter which cannot but turne to his great discredite if it were true but you greatly abuse both the Reader and him for in the. 4. section which I haue alledged he speaketh of that maner of confirmation imposition of handes which was vsed in the olde Church and the same that is nowe vsed in the Church of Englande which he alloweth and wisheth restored In the fifth
to learne suche an A. B. C. is not vnprofitable for any but you will still shewe that good opinion that you haue of your selfe and howe greately you disdayne all other mens labours Whether I haue truely sayd that note to be placed in the Margent in derision or no let the Reader iudge to whome also I doe referre the consideration of your modestie touching that matter He that indifferently considereth their quotations of Scriptures wyll thinke that the moste of them were not placed there in good earnest The argument whiche it hathe pleased you to frame of my wordes I graunte followeth not but thys followeth righte well it is fitte that ignorante Ministers shoulde be enioyned to learne suche thinges as be méete and profitable for them Ergo they maye be enioyned to learne Catechismes And in lyke manner it is méete they shoulde reade suche Bookes as maye instructe them Ergo they maye reade Catechismes I thinke a man by reading learneth and I suppose that to reade those things agayne whiche a man hathe forgotten is to learne them agayne if to learne be to vnderstande and to remember But all this your dallying about this matter is to bring discredite vnto this state of the Churche bicause there be many ignorante Ministers Wherefore I will answere you with the very wordes in the confession of the Churches in Heluetia VVe condemne all vnmeete Ministers not indued with giftes necessarie for a shepheard Confes. eccles Helueti that shoulde feede his flocke Howebeit we acknowledge that the harmlesse simplicitie of some shepheardes in the olde Churche dyd sometymes more profite the Churche than the great exquisite and fine or delicate but a little too proude learning of some others wherfore we reiect not nowe a dayes the good simplicitie of certayne so that they be not altogither vnskilfull of God and his worde Of the election of Ministers by the voyces and consent of the people Chap. 4. the. 1. Diuision Admonition The fourth Then election was made by the common r consent of the whole Churche Act. 1. 2 ▪ now euery one picketh out for himselfe some notable good benefice he obteineth the nexte aduouson by money or by fauour and so thinketh himselfe sufficiently chosen Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 42. Sect. 4. 5. 6. To proue that the election was then made by the common consent Matthias elected extraordinarily of the whole Churche you quote the first of the Actes I tolde you before master Caluines iudgement of that place there is no mention of electing by any common consent And in the place by you quoted whiche is the. 26. verse it is declared howe they gaue foorth their lottes and that the lot fell on Matthias and that he was by a common consente counted with the eleuen Apostles heere is no mention of any election But when he was extraordinarily through Gods prouidence by lot appoynted then they al counted him and esteemed him as one of the Apostles where as before some of them woulde haue had Barsabas I thinke your meaning is not to haue alwayes two at once to be presented to the ministerie and then one of them to be chosen by lotte I knowe none of that opinion Wherefore this example is singular and extraordinarie and therefore no generall rule to be followed If any man seeketh a benefice extraordinarily r ▪ vnlawfully If any man desire honorem the honor not onus the burthen opes the riches not opus the vvorke he hath to answere for it but I trust you wyll not accuse all thoughe perhaps you knowe some I meane of your selues and peraduenture your owne selfe Admonition The fifthe Then the congregation (s) Act. 6. 2. 3. had authoritie to call ministers in steade therof now they runne they ride and by vnlawfull sute and buying preuente other suters also Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 42. Sect. 2. 3. To proue that the congregation had then authoritie to call ministers you alleage the sixte of the Actes whiche place of the Actes I touched before It speaketh not of Ministers of the worde but of Deacons whiche were appoynted to make prouision for the poore only as you say neyther dyd the multitude of the Disciples for so they be called electe them before they were willed so to doe by the twelue Apostles It may be that some vse to runne and ryde and by vnlawfull sute A good rule may be brokē by some and yet good still and buying preuente others and it maye be that you haue experience heereof but all doe not so this is the faulte of the man not of the callyng you maye not ascribe mens infirmities to a lawfull order The rule maye bee good thoughe it bee by some broken T. C. Pag. 28. Sect. 4. It hathe bin likewyse shewed what was in that election extraordinarie and what perteyneth to the ordinarie callings And in the sixte of the Actes it was shewed if the Deacons should not be thrust vpon the congregation agaynst the wyll of it muche lesse ought the minister And if that congregation had by the commaundement of the Apostles an interest in the choyse of their gouernours I see not why the same cōmaundement remayneth not to be followed of other Churches Your reasons wherwith you would make difference shall be after considered Io. Whitgifte And I haue likewise answered to whatsoeuer you haue sayde there but you tell vs neyther there nor héere howe aptely this parte of the texte scilicet verse 26. is in this place quoted To your reason also gathered oute of the sixte of the Actes in the electing of Deacons I haue there answered onely I thoughte good in this place to set downe the iudgement of Chrysostome Hom. 14. in Act. Ideò boc non permiserunt Chryso Hom. 14. in Act. sorti ueque cum possent ipsi spiritu moti eligere hoc faciunt sed magis statuunt quod multorum testimonijs approbatur Nam definire numerum ordinare in talem vsum hoc sibi vendicant Eligere autem viros illis permittunt vt ne videantur ipsi in gratiam quorundam agere The Apostles dyd not committe the election of Deacons to lotte neyther they beeyng moued with the spirite dyd choose them thoughe they mighte haue so done for to appoynt the number to ordayne them and to suche an vse they chalenged as due vnto them selues And yet doe they permitte the election of them to the people least they shoulde bee thoughte to bee partiall or to doe any thing for fauoure Your reasons to proue that to be a perpetuall rule shall not God willing be passed ouer in their place Chap. 4. the. 2. Diuision Admonition The sirthe Then no (t) Act. 14. 13. 2. Cor. 8. 19 minister placed in any congregation but by the consent of the people Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 42. Sect. vlt. Coproue that no Minister was placed in any congregation but by the consent of the people you alleage the. 14. of the Actes and